[BTC-EQTY] A new Bitcoin Investment Fund

[xaviarlol]

**UPDATE: Hi everyone,

I have elected to close this fund to the public for now. Instead, I will be the sole shareholder of the fund, and the results will be published publicly if you are interested in following this funds performance. The results statements can be found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuQ3xQRnpXqEdG5yMHZCaVkydWM5V1pzZld6WmtZa2c&usp=sharing

Hey all,

I'd like to introduce my new private Investment Fund - BTC-EQTY (Formal name is BTC EQUITY). BTC EQUITY is an investment fund that invests in Bitcoin related companies/businesses such as ASICMINER. Other investment activities include buying and selling USD with BTC for a profit, although this is a minor activity.

For below reference/definition, I am the fund manager.

Why choose BTC EQUITY and not invest in companies yourself?
This is a question everyone should ask themselves. Many people prefer to have direct control over their own investments and make investment choices with what they feel are good choices. What I offer is that I think I can beat the average investor in terms of returns, due to my extensive experience in share-trading and investment products. The second thing BTC EQUITY can offer is buying power resulting in more profitable deals. When we have enough investors and BTC capital, we will attempt to buy up assets in bulk for lower prices, resulting in better margins for all of our members.

And lastly, a lot of people may not want to spend many hours doing market research, buying and selling, investigating new assets, keeping up with the latest news etc. We offer a managed service in which you can just sit back and have someone experienced manage the investment for you.

I will have a large investment with my own BTC in this fund, and all future funds. This intrinsically links the success of the fund to my own.

How does it work?
The investment fund is very simple. There will be an initial offering of BTC100. This fund will be called "BTC-EQTY-A". Of this amount, I personally will be investing a large portion of this. Any one can buy as many, or as little "shares" of the fund (minimum 1 unit [1%]). For example, if you want to buy in to the fund with BTC10, you will own 10% of the fund. The fund will be fully subscribed when 100% of the BTC100 are bought out. As a fund member, you will own the % of the fund you purchased. All profits made will be added to the fund, so for example if things go well and 3 months down the track the fund is worth BTC200, your 10% will be worth BTC20 (less fees). (in which you paid BTC10 for, constituting a profit of 100% return on investment.)


How much transparency will you be giving?
There will be public monthly statements hosted on google drive, showing the asset balance sheet, the profit/loss and all other relevant information. There will be graphs, statistics etc also.

Can I "sell-out" at any time?
Yes, you can sell out to either another individual privately, or sell to the fund manager who will pay 95% of the NAV at the time of sale. Otherwise, the fund will eventually end (there will be an end-date period specified), and all holders will be paid out fully at that time. There are other circumstances that can result in the fund selling off early, or being extended. Likely via a majority vote.

Can I buy in to the fund after the initial offering?
The only way to buy in to the fund after the initial issuing is to buy a share from an existing holder of the fund. However, the value of the share will almost certainly be different by then.

Can I lose my money? How risky is this?
Each fund has a different risk level. The first and only fund (at this stage) is a balanced risk fund. This means that this fund will not take part in USD vs Bitcoin trades, and will stick to moderate risk asset shares.

Bitcoins are very risky investments, anything related to bitcoins are risky at this point. There is a very real risk of making significant losses by buying in to this fund, or any other fund, or any bitcoin asset. You have probably heard this warning everywhere surrounding bitcoins, but again - Do not invest funds that you can't afford to lose!

How do dividends work?
Dividends are issued at the discretion of the fund manager. However, in most cases, 100% of the net income that the fund generates will be paid as a dividend, less the management fee. There may be some instances where assets are sold off with the intention of providing a large dividend to shareholders, particularly if the NAV increases substantially.

What are the fees?
The fee is structured based on the performance of the fund. This is done to protect the fund members from paying a lot of fees if the fund is performing poorly. I feel this is the most honest and fair way of charging the fee.

Fee structure as follows:
One-off: There is a one-time fee of 5% at the time of purchasing in to the fund. So if you buy BTC10, the fee is BTC0.5 (meaning you will need to pay BTC10.5 to the fund issuer.

Performance based fee: A 5% fee from the net profit every month (at time of dividend distribution). Eg. If the fund net profit for the month is +10 BTC, a fee of 0.5BTC is deducted, and the remaining 9.5 BTC is distributed to all share holders.

Will you be listing your funds on issuers such as btct.co ?
Almost certainly at some stage. For now, this first fund will be privately managed.

How much money will I make?
As said above, all Bitcoin related investments are risky. You might lose most of your money, break even, or make 10x your money. I am merely providing you with my expertise and knowledge, to give you a better chance of getting a return on your bitcoin investment.

Is this fund legal?
As with all bitcoin funds/securities, these are all virtual, which to the best of our knowledge is perfectly legal.

Do I have any recourse if something goes wrong?
Every effort will be made to be as fair and transparent as possible. I cannot guarantee that nothing will go wrong, but I can guarantee that I will act responsibly and with integrity. If that is not enough, than his might not be for you.

Do the funds "end"?
The funds will run their course eventually. All fund members are allowed to sell-out at any point, so this may happen naturally. There will be an end-date period specified, and all holders will be paid out fully at that time. There are other circumstances that can result in the fund selling off early, or being extended. Likely via a majority vote. If majority votes to keep the fund active but you want to be paid out, there will be an option created for you to freely do that at that time.

Can I have a say in what is invested in?
I will be setting something up, probably a voting system, that will allow the fund members to steer the direction of the funds. For now, I will definitely listen and consider fund members thoughts and requests.
------------------------

[Chet]

And why should I not just buy investments myself?

And how do any investors know you wont just run off with their BTC?

 

[xaviarlol]

And why should I not just buy investments myself?

And how do any investors know you wont just run off with their BTC?

 

Hey Chet,

The first question I answered in the OP

Regarding running away, what is the usual methods people do here to prove they are trustworthy / this is not a scam? I would be happy to follow their lead

[Chet]

get a wot would be a good start
Seriously no one here is going to trust a newbie with 9-10 posts, the btc scams abound.
But since you are claiming investment knowledge tell me what you think of Satoshi Dice stocks atm?

[xaviarlol]

get a wot would be a good start
Seriously no one here is going to trust a newbie with 9-10 posts, the btc scams abound.
But since you are claiming investment knowledge tell me what you think of Satoshi Dice stocks atm?

Satoshi is not on my buy list. The problem with them is that when bitcoins appreciate in value, the bet turnover drops lower. This is because people are in the mindset of USD when part-taking in gambling activities. This means that Satoshi revenue growth will continue to be stunted and hamstrung by a rising bitcoin value. This is the opposite of a company like say, ASICMINER, which see high revenue growth on the back of higher bitcoin values.

Also, the entertainment value of their gambling systems are lacking.

[mandelbert]

Sounds interesting. I have a few questions:

1. You say the fund is a "balanced risk fund" and "will stick to moderate risk asset shares". I'm curious, how do you evaluate risk? I mean, what do you consider moderate as opposed to low or high?

2. You say you have "extensive experience in share-trading and investment products". Could you elaborate on that a bit - how long have you been trading/investing, how much money was involved, did you handle others people money, how successful your investments were, etc.

[abuelau]

I am also interested, but I also want to see the answer to mandelbert's question above.

[xaviarlol]

Sounds interesting. I have a few questions:

1. You say the fund is a "balanced risk fund" and "will stick to moderate risk asset shares". I'm curious, how do you evaluate risk? I mean, what do you consider moderate as opposed to low or high?

2. You say you have "extensive experience in share-trading and investment products". Could you elaborate on that a bit - how long have you been trading/investing, how much money was involved, did you handle others people money, how successful your investments were, etc.

Thank you for your questions.

1) Firstly, keep in mind that the term "risk" with bitcoins is relative. Bitcoins are inherently very risky, so when I class things in bitcoin investments as "low-risk", they are generally still very risky by market standards. They are simply less risky than other BTC market segments.

There are several ways that I class risk in a bitcoin market. A good way to think about it is that risk and "aggressive" actions go hand-in-hand. On a high-risk bitcoin fund, you might see more bold moves made, such as sticking in a lot of funds in to a share that we believe is about to take off, or making less-diverse investments and focusing on high-risk-high-return emerging companies that may not be proven yet.

More specific examples is that in a non-high risk fund (which this initial offering is), there will be no investment plays at the forex game (bitcoin vs USD bets). Where as in a high-risk fund, there could be. There may even be a fund in the future that solely plays the forex game and nothing else, but that would be amongst the most gambler-esk funds available.

A low risk fund will focus on safer bets, diversified investments, focus on older companies that have proven dividends, and dividend stability/yield. Dividends being a critical component of risk assessment. I contemplated starting with low-risk funds only, as bitcoins are risky enough and the market may not be mature enough for riskier, higher potential profit investments (and I'd rather people got safer returns to start with than trying for crazy-high returns that could easily go the other way. It's never nice to blow the fund on a high-risk move so early in the life of it)

2) I have been trading shares for 10 years, have traded forex, bonds, ETF's, waist-deep in to the property market and I am a part of an angel investor group here in Australia. My real estate portfolio is valued at around 1.8m, my shares $160k, and several other investments. I also run an IT business. I don't work for an investment bank or manage investments commercially.

[rini17]

get a wot would be a good start
Seriously no one here is going to trust a newbie with 9-10 posts, the btc scams abound.
But since you are claiming investment knowledge tell me what you think of Satoshi Dice stocks atm?

Satoshi is not on my buy list. The problem with them is that when bitcoins appreciate in value, the bet turnover drops lower. This is because people are in the mindset of USD when part-taking in gambling activities. This means that Satoshi revenue growth will continue to be stunted and hamstrung by a rising bitcoin value. This is the opposite of a company like say, ASICMINER, which see high revenue growth on the back of higher bitcoin values.

Also, the entertainment value of their gambling systems are lacking.

Thanks, this shows nicely you haven't a clue and prefer impressions over data. Satoshidice dividends don't show any correlation to bitcoin value so far, despite btc went up over 5x since IPO.
And ASICMINER revenue depends much more on difficulty and sustained technological lead than bitcoin value - that correlation may be even negative. Because if bitcoin rises, more people restart mining on older hardware or botnets.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

get a wot would be a good start
Seriously no one here is going to trust a newbie with 9-10 posts, the btc scams abound.
But since you are claiming investment knowledge tell me what you think of Satoshi Dice stocks atm?

Satoshi is not on my buy list. The problem with them is that when bitcoins appreciate in value, the bet turnover drops lower. This is because people are in the mindset of USD when part-taking in gambling activities. This means that Satoshi revenue growth will continue to be stunted and hamstrung by a rising bitcoin value. This is the opposite of a company like say, ASICMINER, which see high revenue growth on the back of higher bitcoin values.

Also, the entertainment value of their gambling systems are lacking.

Thanks, this shows nicely you haven't a clue and prefer impressions over data. Satoshidice dividends don't show any correlation to bitcoin value so far, despite btc went up over 5x since IPO.
And ASICMINER revenue depends much more on difficulty and sustained technological lead than bitcoin value - that correlation may be even negative. Because if bitcoin rises, more people restart mining on older hardware or botnets.

The value of SDICE has shown some correlation to bitcoin value.

[ronaldlee0917]

Why would you raise the fund when you own $1.8m + 160k?
Why don't you convert some of your assets to btcs and invest all for yourself, you keep 100% of the profit this way. 100btc is a piece of cake for a guy that rich.

[xaviarlol]

Why would you raise the fund when you own $1.8m + 160k?
Why don't you convert some of your assets to btcs and invest all for yourself, you keep 100% of the profit this way. 100btc is a piece of cake for a guy that rich.

I have personal BTC assets, though admittedly not that much. Property isn't very liquid, and I'm relatively cash poor. I am starting this small, and if successful the sums will indeed become a lot larger.

[xaviarlol]

get a wot would be a good start
Seriously no one here is going to trust a newbie with 9-10 posts, the btc scams abound.
But since you are claiming investment knowledge tell me what you think of Satoshi Dice stocks atm?

Satoshi is not on my buy list. The problem with them is that when bitcoins appreciate in value, the bet turnover drops lower. This is because people are in the mindset of USD when part-taking in gambling activities. This means that Satoshi revenue growth will continue to be stunted and hamstrung by a rising bitcoin value. This is the opposite of a company like say, ASICMINER, which see high revenue growth on the back of higher bitcoin values.

Also, the entertainment value of their gambling systems are lacking.

Thanks, this shows nicely you haven't a clue and prefer impressions over data. Satoshidice dividends don't show any correlation to bitcoin value so far, despite btc went up over 5x since IPO.
And ASICMINER revenue depends much more on difficulty and sustained technological lead than bitcoin value - that correlation may be even negative. Because if bitcoin rises, more people restart mining on older hardware or botnets.

Did you actually fact-check this before making that post?

The turnover at s.dice was roughly 400-600BTC per day in Dec, Jan, Feb, than plummeted to 32 and 127 in March and April (during the enormous bubble). Look at the corrolations of BTC value during the "profitable" months and the last 2 months.

Not to mention the sheer logic - if BTC is worth $260, its very safe to say that a person gambling in BTC when it was $13 per BTC is not going to continue to bet the same volume of BTC.

[MPOE-PR]

New people have no business starting "funds". Not now, not ever.

This is a high trust, high competence field. Only people who have been involved in Bitcoin for a long time and with credible results may do this. Anyone else trying to do this 1. won't get anywhere; 2. is a scammer anyway. Whether they plan to or not they're a scammer, it makes no difference. They'll just have a more or less planned out scam, but it will be a scam.

And before you start with the "I've been involved since 2005" Tortilla stuff: no, you haven't. You're not involved now. To be involved you have to actually do something. People using the word "Bitcoin" in conversation aren't involved in Bitcoin, they're involved in conversing.

[xaviarlol]

New people have no business starting "funds". Not now, not ever.

This is a high trust, high competence field. Only people who have been involved in Bitcoin for a long time and with credible results may do this. Anyone else trying to do this 1. won't get anywhere; 2. is a scammer anyway. Whether they plan to or not they're a scammer, it makes no difference. They'll just have a more or less planned out scam, but it will be a scam.

And before you start with the "I've been involved since 2005" Tortilla stuff: no, you haven't. You're not involved now. To be involved you have to actually do something. People using the word "Bitcoin" in conversation aren't involved in Bitcoin, they're involved in conversing.

With all due respect, this sounds like a rant and is nonsense.

If everyone had the same attitude as this, Bitcoin would never have risen to the place it is now. Simply labeling everything as "won't go anywhere, won't work, waste of time" is a pretty terrible position to have for an innovative, emerging technology.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

New people have no business starting "funds". Not now, not ever.

This is a high trust, high competence field. Only people who have been involved in Bitcoin for a long time and with credible results may do this. Anyone else trying to do this 1. won't get anywhere; 2. is a scammer anyway. Whether they plan to or not they're a scammer, it makes no difference. They'll just have a more or less planned out scam, but it will be a scam.

And before you start with the "I've been involved since 2005" Tortilla stuff: no, you haven't. You're not involved now. To be involved you have to actually do something. People using the word "Bitcoin" in conversation aren't involved in Bitcoin, they're involved in conversing.

With all due respect, this sounds like a rant and is nonsense.

If everyone had the same attitude as this, Bitcoin would never have risen to the place it is now. Simply labeling everything as "won't go anywhere, won't work, waste of time" is a pretty terrible position to have for an innovative, emerging technology.

When people don't have the same attitude as this, we had Pirate and NYAN.

[xaviarlol]

New people have no business starting "funds". Not now, not ever.

This is a high trust, high competence field. Only people who have been involved in Bitcoin for a long time and with credible results may do this. Anyone else trying to do this 1. won't get anywhere; 2. is a scammer anyway. Whether they plan to or not they're a scammer, it makes no difference. They'll just have a more or less planned out scam, but it will be a scam.

And before you start with the "I've been involved since 2005" Tortilla stuff: no, you haven't. You're not involved now. To be involved you have to actually do something. People using the word "Bitcoin" in conversation aren't involved in Bitcoin, they're involved in conversing.

With all due respect, this sounds like a rant and is nonsense.

If everyone had the same attitude as this, Bitcoin would never have risen to the place it is now. Simply labeling everything as "won't go anywhere, won't work, waste of time" is a pretty terrible position to have for an innovative, emerging technology.

When people don't have the same attitude as this, we had Pirate and NYAN.

Please check your priv msgs

[ThickAsThieves]

get a wot would be a good start
Seriously no one here is going to trust a newbie with 9-10 posts, the btc scams abound.
But since you are claiming investment knowledge tell me what you think of Satoshi Dice stocks atm?

Satoshi is not on my buy list. The problem with them is that when bitcoins appreciate in value, the bet turnover drops lower. This is because people are in the mindset of USD when part-taking in gambling activities. This means that Satoshi revenue growth will continue to be stunted and hamstrung by a rising bitcoin value. This is the opposite of a company like say, ASICMINER, which see high revenue growth on the back of higher bitcoin values.

Also, the entertainment value of their gambling systems are lacking.

Thanks, this shows nicely you haven't a clue and prefer impressions over data. Satoshidice dividends don't show any correlation to bitcoin value so far, despite btc went up over 5x since IPO.
And ASICMINER revenue depends much more on difficulty and sustained technological lead than bitcoin value - that correlation may be even negative. Because if bitcoin rises, more people restart mining on older hardware or botnets.

Jurov, this is entirely incorrect. I showed proof a couple months ago. Total BTC "in" is very much affected by BTC/USD.
Edit: here is the proof https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=80312.msg1834765#msg1834765

I agree with MPOE-PR here, no one new has any business running a fund. Start smaller, show more proof.

[MPOE-PR]

With all due respect, this sounds like a rant and is nonsense.

If everyone had the same attitude as this, Bitcoin would never have risen to the place it is now. Simply labeling everything as "won't go anywhere, won't work, waste of time" is a pretty terrible position to have for an innovative, emerging technology.

Bitcoin has risen to where it is now precisely because of me imposing this here correct attitude against the inception to early 2012 prevailing mistaken attitude of noobish idiocy that you seem to favor. BTC wallowed around 10 per as long as the Global Scam Exchange folk were the prevailing crowd. This was not a coincidence.

The mere fact that you have the unmitigated gall to presume you know the history when you don't, and the boneheaded cluelessness to then use completely wrong "arguments" built on this resounding, absolute ignorance when confronted by the very people who wrote that history is one of those "only on the Internet" sorts of things. At the very least don't add hypocrisy to insult by prefacing that nonsense with "due respect". There's no respect there, in spite of plenty of respect being due. Claiming otherwise is not helping you.

Also don't misrepresent what I say. It's not a matter of "everything", it's a matter of noob ventures without a chance in Hell. Those aren't "everything" by any means.

[stslimited]

New people have no business starting "funds". Not now, not ever.

This is a high trust, high competence field. Only people who have been involved in Bitcoin for a long time and with credible results may do this. Anyone else trying to do this 1. won't get anywhere; 2. is a scammer anyway. Whether they plan to or not they're a scammer, it makes no difference. They'll just have a more or less planned out scam, but it will be a scam.

And before you start with the "I've been involved since 2005" Tortilla stuff: no, you haven't. You're not involved now. To be involved you have to actually do something. People using the word "Bitcoin" in conversation aren't involved in Bitcoin, they're involved in conversing.

With all due respect, this sounds like a rant and is nonsense.

If everyone had the same attitude as this, Bitcoin would never have risen to the place it is now. Simply labeling everything as "won't go anywhere, won't work, waste of time" is a pretty terrible position to have for an innovative, emerging technology.

they did the same to me with my company's High Frequency Algorithm Fund, just thought I'd give you a heads up. I had to drastically scale back the size of the proposed offering but this greatly shifted the cost benefit analysis to the point where this market is simply not mature enough for it.

I made the same observations as you as there is literally no way to not be defensive when you are trying to actually get something done, but it won't help, thats all I'm trying to say