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Author Topic: Ending bankruptcies, unemployment, and poverty  (Read 4639 times)
Walter Rothbard
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May 23, 2013, 04:23:27 PM
 #1

This is why I am involved in Bitcoin:

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The economy is not a machine.  It is an ecology made of biological organisms -- humans.  It is far too complex for any government to fully understand or improve, but governments try to do this.  They play God.  The result is bankruptcies, unemployment and poverty for millions of good people who have never harmed anyone.

The Clipper Ship Strategy, Richard J. Maybury

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May 23, 2013, 04:35:47 PM
 #2

This is why I am involved in Bitcoin:

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The economy is not a machine.  It is an ecology made of biological organisms -- humans.  It is far too complex for any government to fully understand or improve, but governments try to do this.  They play God.  The result is bankruptcies, unemployment and poverty for millions of good people who have never harmed anyone.

The Clipper Ship Strategy, Richard J. Maybury

I somewhat agree. There are things the government should be involved with, and others they shouldn't. I think Bitcoin is on the "shouldn't" list simply because it allows us to vote (in a sense) on how things work and how inflation/deflation are dealt with. Everyone that has coins is part owner of the entire thing, so I view it as being like a company and we own stocks.


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




















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Ekaros
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May 23, 2013, 04:40:10 PM
 #3

Bankruptcies are natural part of business. The problem is results from them. Without them there would be lot of inefficiency, which would mean employment, but on other hand also poverty.

Governments don't do good job, but I don't believe other options are better just yet...

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May 23, 2013, 04:49:23 PM
 #4

Bankruptcies are natural part of business. The problem is results from them. Without them there would be lot of inefficiency, which would mean employment, but on other hand also poverty.

Governments don't do good job, but I don't believe other options are better just yet...

It would also affect our technological evolution, as companies would be much less willing to risk new things. Most of the items we get in stores are based on someone feeling confident enough to risk everything in order to go for it. I don't know what a lack of bankruptcies would do but I have the feeling it would be a big problem.


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




















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Walter Rothbard
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May 23, 2013, 05:53:34 PM
 #5

Bankruptcies are natural part of business. The problem is results from them. Without them there would be lot of inefficiency, which would mean employment, but on other hand also poverty.

Governments don't do good job, but I don't believe other options are better just yet...

It would also affect our technological evolution, as companies would be much less willing to risk new things. Most of the items we get in stores are based on someone feeling confident enough to risk everything in order to go for it. I don't know what a lack of bankruptcies would do but I have the feeling it would be a big problem.

The point is that government regulation of the economy causes bankruptcies.  The point is not to eliminate bankruptcy law.  The point is to stop tampering with the economy and screwing things up such that people become paupers.  The point is to end misery.

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May 23, 2013, 06:58:33 PM
 #6

I think some of you are being too naive, bankruptcies, unemployment and poverty will always happen in an economy the best thing we can do is pick what will cause the least damage, what current financial policies do is make it all far more damaging and long lasting. One great thing deflationary currencies do is make everything cheaper, me getting 100 sales in Bitcoin will get me a lot more than if I got 100 sales in paper money, that means I also have to work less because I can purchase more, in an inflationary currency it's the opposite.
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May 24, 2013, 10:54:14 PM
 #7

No currency will change the fundamentals of the human condition.  There is no utopia to be found on this mortal plane.
Walter Rothbard
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May 28, 2013, 02:28:58 PM
 #8

No currency will change the fundamentals of the human condition.  There is no utopia to be found on this mortal plane.

You're right - we should continue to accept and authorize government intervention into the economy.

 Roll Eyes

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May 28, 2013, 02:31:26 PM
 #9

No currency will change the fundamentals of the human condition.  There is no utopia to be found on this mortal plane.

You're right - we should continue to accept and authorize government intervention into the economy.

 Roll Eyes

He's not talking about government intervention at all, even if we had a purely free market there would still be the usual problems, the difference is that they would be less severe and wouldn't be forced onto people by a single leadership.
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May 28, 2013, 02:52:10 PM
 #10

human greed is destroying everything on earth. if people would stop to grab everything around them for themselves, world would be immedially different than it is now. no wars with economical and political background, no thieves, no bankrupcies. then we would have to figure how to stop religious fanatics...

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May 28, 2013, 02:58:15 PM
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The only way you could do that is if human beings were all like robots and had no will of there own, don't you watch any sci-fi? Cheesy
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May 28, 2013, 09:16:24 PM
 #12

Bankruptcies, unemployment, and poverty will still exist without government intervention. They would be significantly rarer, however. More efficient charities, a larger, more active economy, and the lack of unnecessary and expensive regulations would tend to reduce all three.

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June 19, 2013, 07:23:02 AM
 #13

Maybury's reference to bankruptcies is in respect to the malinvestment caused by government intervention into the economy, malinvestment that will be shaken out as the economy eventually corrects from the outside distortions.
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June 19, 2013, 03:11:22 PM
 #14

Bankruptcies, unemployment, and poverty will still exist without government intervention.

That's why there will always exist 'em damn "socialists" trying to disimprove the situation, right?  Smiley

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June 20, 2013, 02:59:58 AM
 #15

This is why I am involved in Bitcoin:

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The economy is not a machine.  It is an ecology made of biological organisms -- humans.  It is far too complex for any government to fully understand or improve, but governments try to do this.  They play God.  The result is bankruptcies, unemployment and poverty for millions of good people who have never harmed anyone.

The Clipper Ship Strategy, Richard J. Maybury

That is a great quote, and 100% right. I think the only way to have a smooth running economy is we must get off paper currency. If it can be printed, and inflated we must not use it.

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June 20, 2013, 08:35:06 AM
 #16

This is why I am involved in Bitcoin:

Quote
The economy is not a machine.  It is an ecology made of biological organisms -- humans.  It is far too complex for any government to fully understand or improve, but governments try to do this.  They play God.  The result is bankruptcies, unemployment and poverty for millions of good people who have never harmed anyone.

The Clipper Ship Strategy, Richard J. Maybury

qft Smiley
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June 20, 2013, 09:51:33 AM
 #17

This is why I am involved in Bitcoin:

Quote
The economy is not a machine.  It is an ecology made of biological organisms -- humans.  It is far too complex for any government to fully understand or improve, but governments try to do this.  They play God.  The result is bankruptcies, unemployment and poverty for millions of good people who have never harmed anyone.

The Clipper Ship Strategy, Richard J. Maybury

That is a great quote, and 100% right. I think the only way to have a smooth running economy is we must get off paper currency. If it can be printed, and inflated we must not use it.
You are correct.  The US Founding Fathers realized this also.  They authorized only gold and silver as a currency of the realm, and proclaimed the death penalty for anyone who debased that currency.  That was the first crime to carry the death penalty in the US.
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June 20, 2013, 10:52:50 AM
 #18

It will definitely improve the situation. Though I don't think Bitcoin is the complete answer to these problems.
Sure with a deflationary currency people are not as stressed out about inflation: i hear it all the time people on the news
saying inflation is good for the economy... why? Because they get to print money to further magnify their incompetence?
If governments were forced to work on a limited budget they would be more mindful of the environment they run, they'd
have to be mindful of how they do their work instead of being heavy handed when searching for tax revenue.

It doesn't help either that all that printing devalues everyone elses savings, forcing people to invest in appreciating assets like homes
and stocks... I don't know if forcing people to gamble with their savings is a good idea.

But with Bitcoin there is an incentive to save and also a counter an incentive to spend because it is a closed loop, it is in everyones interest to offer good services to prevent people from hoarding. It is quite ingenious the balance that must be maintained, and it can not rely on force... the design of bitcoin prevents that at the protocol level, businesses must entice people to freely spread it.

Would Bitcoin end bankruptcies? in a very round about way yes, if someone kept all the addresses they ever generated they could research exactly where they went wrong... the amount of data on the blockchain is staggering. they can compare it to other businesses with public addresses and see where they went wrong in a environment with limited resources or players(with mandatory quarterly address changes everyone would be able to keep their operations secret till the next change.)

Would unemployemnt end? well actually no, it would magnify it, but the sources of revenue would be magnified by the blockchain, so further automatisation could occur in the economy and people can invest smartly in succeding businesses and clearly see if something they are getting into is a ponsy scheme or not. In essence people would know more precisely where the money is being succesfully syphoned from general circulation so they can target their investments and products better.

The belief I have is that if everyone knows the rules: there will never be more than 21 million coins, the inflation rate is predictable, value changes according to the amount of pressure coming in from the real world economy a measurable statistic with the blockchain;
then everyone knows what must be done: monitor the flow of bitcoins, see where they are going; Target products to the most succesful businesses and demographics; don't worry about inflation/deflation once the system stabilizes it won't budge, decisions can be based on real world factors... a more intelligent economy can emerge, exact data can be delivered to the people without compromising private security.

Can poverty form... no, not with this system. too much info on the blockchain, aid groups can target their resources more efficiently to see what truly lifts people from poverty. it's the information that is generated that will change everything, when people have accurate data they can respond in a more human way... do you think a ceo will more likely make decisions that will destroy a sector of society when it can be traced back to them? i mean small towns can even monitor how much money is coming in and out of their economy and make decision accordingly thanks to that data.

It's the human factor, we may not be predictable, but we know each other, we have emotions and ethics with real understanding of what affects us as human beings, it would only be a matter of time before we adjusted to the feedback provided by this system... we would adapt.

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June 20, 2013, 11:30:30 AM
 #19

I can't understand how some people can put so much hope in bitcoin. It's only a currency. Its goals are not to end poverty, unemployment, bankruptcies. It might change a few things but there will be rich and poor, dumb and smart, attractive and ugly people.
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June 20, 2013, 12:14:10 PM
 #20

I can't understand how some people can put so much hope in bitcoin. It's only a currency. Its goals are not to end poverty, unemployment, bankruptcies. It might change a few things but there will be rich and poor, dumb and smart, attractive and ugly people.

...and a great deal less theft, though inflation, to fund wars.
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