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Author Topic: The END of ICO's?  (Read 8832 times)
vtos marketing
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September 07, 2017, 03:05:07 AM
Last edit: February 04, 2018, 06:33:58 PM by vtos marketing
 #101

I think the use of tokens from etherum is the best way to crowdfund real icos and pay for services, so in the long run they will be very important.

etherum have a tendency to be a future strong currency,  we are developing a social video network using etherum tokens ( VTOS)

teaser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8F1E__jnfc

be ready in the coming month we are going to start the marketing campaign

regards.

edgardo aguirre
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kuyaJ
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September 07, 2017, 03:05:20 AM
 #102

Maybe this will be good for old coins, and coins already in the big market, this is good for old crypto users, especially now too much ICO, maybe this is the right step, we will invest in an existing project since a long time ago

it is good but we have a good or some advantage of ICO's because ICO can be in a market so there are some supply in market and also it is good for trading.
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September 07, 2017, 03:10:44 AM
 #103

After China & Korea, Hong Kong also raised concerns about ICO:
https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/05/hong-kong-ico-concern/
a hard blow for ico for now. All occur due to the negative effects that arise from the ico. if the negative influence is not immediately overcome. The possibility of ICO being a very difficult consideration for Investors
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September 07, 2017, 11:43:55 AM
 #104

I would welcome regulations so that the ICO will be kept from scams and projects that only want money.

Regulation is a double edged sword.

Currently, securities offerings are heavily regulated.  Most start-ups would not have the resources to comply with regulations and therefore, they can only take money from friends, family and accredited investors.  This means that if ICOs are regulated, most people would not be allowed to invest.

However, most accredited investors (wealthy people) don't know anything about technology, crypto currencies and the risks involved.  A basement dweller geek understands these things better.  Regulation will put up a wall between ICOs and the basement dweller.

Yes, regulation will save some basement dwellers from getting screwed by some ICO scams.  It will also prevent the basement dweller from investing in the next Ethereum and the basement dweller is much better equipped to spot the next Ethereum than most accredited investors.

Regulators give preference to accredited investors, but their logic has major flaws:

1) Regulators think that accredited investors are better investors.  Not necessarily.  A doctor knows nothing about investing.  A surviving spouse may know nothing about business.  Celebrities are HORRIBLE investors.

2) Regulators think that accredited investors can afford to lose the investment.  A 65 year old, retired accredited investor cannot afford to lose 100% of his net worth.  If he does, the rest of his life is screwed.  An 20 year old basement dweller can lose 100% of his net worth and it won't be a serious problem.

speakoo
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September 07, 2017, 11:58:37 AM
 #105


1 . Regulating all icos , that needs a long time to come ture, that means we have a long time to play with icos.
2.Regulation is good for crypto , otherwise any shit can issue an ico , that's crazy.

Capradina
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September 07, 2017, 12:10:11 PM
 #106

only china goverment banned about ico can't killer ico project, about USA with SEC is very long time not support ico project
i think ico project still can run, without china people
but crypto curency is anonymous, so all china people still can invest in ico project

I think it is still ok to ICO projects, as you can see ,the market is getting worm and some hot ICO projects such as kyber and avenus will still be hard to join in, so I will keep supporting some promising ICO projects.

Well, it is now a lot of ICO are popping up. This occurs because the market also accepts it all so many entrepreneurs and technology experts also made some cryptocurrency to realize some recana or project that they find. But the problem is what benefits we will get when she participated in the funding of the ico, so essentially everyone will still support some projects are indeed still have a level of advantages and benefits. so look for an ICO the best and not give a lot of negative things
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September 07, 2017, 12:46:49 PM
 #107

Cryptocurrencies have become a huge progress in the world of currencies. Even if the governments forbid all ICOs, the inventors will find the way around or will simply break through. The progress can't be stopped.
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September 07, 2017, 12:51:05 PM
 #108

Don't worry man. It's not the end of ICOs, these countries are trying to manage icos to protect investors, not forbid forever.

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September 07, 2017, 12:52:04 PM
 #109

i dont think so the icos will end. because not only those country who invest and contribute icos. lots country in this world currently have spirit to join and contributed icos.
Hyperme.sh
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September 07, 2017, 09:33:37 PM
Last edit: September 09, 2017, 12:19:56 AM by Hyperme.sh
 #110

After China & Korea, Hong Kong also raised concerns about ICO:
https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/05/hong-kong-ico-concern/

UK is also contemplating regulating ICOs. Singapore, USA, and Canada have also warned.



Most start-ups would not have the resources to comply with regulations and therefore, they can only take money from friends, family and accredited investors.  This means that if ICOs are regulated, most people would not be allowed to invest.

Incorrect on both points. First, friends and family as investors aren’t exempt from securities regulation. Secondly, there is crowd funding of equity now with Regulation A (SEC) and Regulation CF (SEC). Crowd equity that targets non-accredited investors requires thorough disclosure on par with what would be disclosed if registering securities.

A downside with these crowd equity paradigms for non-accredited investors is that they are more or less country specific. Regulation CF requires that the company funded must be incorporated in the USA, and it selling to other countries may not be possible, e.g. to UK investors. This gets to be quite a mess to raise funds from people all over the world:

https://www.paulhastings.com/publications-items/details/?id=9c59e969-2334-6428-811c-ff00004cbded

We were contemplating to do a crowd equity round at launch of our project (which would be 100% legal). You would not get tokens, rather restricted shares which receive a dividend when pre-mined tokens are sold in the future by corporation (sold only when there is no longer any investor expectation dependent on the efforts of the corporation). It requires long-term investment. It removes the scammy pump & dump aspect. Short-term speculators can buy the tokens on the open markets if they prefer, and these are not issued in exchange for money, thus are not securities. But an additional downside is that most investors want to take their gains as capital gains (for tax planning flexibility), so they’d want instead of dividends to have an IPO, but the regulation of IPOs is rather onerous.

If we go that route, we’ll likely end up in some regulatory or lawsuit “purgatory” (i.e. gridlock clusterfuck) down the line. It is a huge mess that we need to avoid.

The reason we would not offer tokens via crowd equity, is because the tokens would then be restricted securities, not tradeable, and even if later registered, then only tradeable on regulated exchanges:

And the growing use of private placements like the Reg D structure is something investors should note. Namely, it means that the next generation of tokens could be securities in the view of U.S. regulators.

Thus we’d separate the investment in shares from the investment in tokens. Tokens are issued without taking money, so they are not securities and can traded legally. One way to issue tokens without taking money is to have a competitive proof-of-work mining. STEEM showed another way to issue without taking money via onboarding; and we’ll have a different onboarding variant.

Bad news for pumpers and scammers. Their party is going to be crashed by the regulators. Their ill-gotten funds will be clawed back. Always in life, crime does not pay.

Those who have issued or promoted ICOs (i.e. participated in signature campaigns thus are affiliates), I suggest getting an attorney asap. You’re not going to like what is coming.

The paradigm is changing. We anticipated this since 2015 and warned everyone. But of course most people ignored it.

Yet we are still not comfortable with any of the legal means to raise funds. So we’re still looking for a different model that can also be legal and avoid making the tokens securities.



Note for raising early stage seed capital from a small number of angel investors, then Regulation D  (which provides safe harbor) is normally used as an exemption from SEC registration of the securities (and similarly in other countries such as Canada). Specifically Rule 506(b) because it eliminates the need to register in every State where there is an investor. The only requirement is to file a simple report with the SEC and in every applicable State. Of course there are similar reports to be filed in other countries (such as Form 45-106(f1) in Canada) where there are investors.

The main point is that registration is very onerous with requirement of very thorough and strict disclosure, which consumes considerable cost, effort,  and risk to the issuer of being sued or prosecuted for omitting or misleading material facts of disclosure. Thus it is desirable for early stage fund raising to be offered only to accredited investors and only offered privately (no public advertising of the offering). In this way, only the anti-fraud aspects of disclosure apply. And there is no registration, only a simple filing of summary form.

Note that investors which are bona fide directors or officers of the corporation are considered to be accredited investors, even if they would otherwise be non-accredited (but this can not be used as a scheme to sell investment to non-accredited investors who do not offers skills to the corporation which do not justify their legitimate appointment as directors or officers). But under Securities Act Rule 4(a)(2) these must be registered with each respective State, unless they are being given away and not sold.

Recently it became much easier to resell restricted (even “control”) shares, and accredited investors can apparently purchase restricted shares from other accredited investors directly. Yet that still is quite restrictive for those who want capital gains and not dividends.

Disclaimer: IANAL. This is not legal advice.
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September 08, 2017, 02:35:41 AM
 #111

Don't worry man. It's not the end of ICOs, these countries are trying to manage icos to protect investors, not forbid forever.
they just try to protect investor and block laundering money

Hyperme.sh
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September 08, 2017, 09:55:39 PM
 #112

Written in 2016 (not by myself):

All of the ICO's you mentioned issued unregistered securities illegally not only in the US, but in the Commonwealth, Europe, etc...most juristictions of the world have regulations to protect unsophisticated investors, such as yourself, from yourselves.

Kraken is not the issuer, so they commited no crimes. They issue nothing, they just provide a secondary market according to the rules.

Are you learning disabled?

I made an analagy about selling illegal things. Tech startups issuing unregistered securities and selling them to Americans are exactly as illegal as heroin. It doesn't matter where the startup is based. It doesn't matter where the heroin is produced. Neither the drugs nor the unregistered securities may legally be sold in America, and most other modern jurisdictions.

Nobody has been busted...yet. You may be holding securities where all the principles are suddenly renditioned and jailed. I don't care because I am not stupid enough to hold securities where the managers are criminals. And could be renditions with bags over their scammy heads and imprisoned at anytime. Fall of the security price is a certainty, suddenly, without warning. And, this is the single most likely scenario.

You evidentially are that stupid. Musical chairs: when the music is over your dumbfuck crap drops to hell. You are one of the dumbest people I have encountered on Reddit.

You believe you can make up your own laws? Dumb fucks like you get raped in prison every day.

This is awful complicated stuff. Are you sure you are smart enough to be involved in a market where illegal and legal are confusing concepts for you?
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September 08, 2017, 10:23:42 PM
 #113

I don't think this series of events signals the end of ICOs. Regulation is inevitable. The strongest ICOs will still find a way to succeed, with or without government regulation.
I also think that ICO will not end but more tightened for some reason.
ICO's success is not from regulation that prevents them, but how an ICO team can manage strategy, convince investors, sell or buy.
they are all important elements of the success of an ICO Project.
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September 08, 2017, 10:33:44 PM
 #114

The ICO ban by the Chinese government is just to protect their citizens for obvious reasons. I think with out the USA and China, there is still the rest of the world so definitely its not the end of ICO's.

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September 08, 2017, 10:37:35 PM
 #115

I don't think this is the end for ICOs, but the FUDFest has started and future ICOs will be able to raise smaller funds, that's for sure.

Get the best airdrops at https://t.me/only_the_best_airdrops
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September 09, 2017, 12:26:27 AM
Last edit: September 09, 2017, 11:03:23 PM by Hyperme.sh
 #116

The ICO ban by the Chinese government is just to protect their citizens for obvious reasons. I think with out the USA and China, there is still the rest of the world so definitely its not the end of ICO's.

You do not seem to understand the dilemma from the standpoint of an honest developer such as myself who wants to raise funding but not get in trouble with the law.

Those other countries that you refer to which have unclear regulation, are a huge risk. If I do an ICO and sell only to people in those countries, not only do I eliminate the countries where people have the most money to invest (e.g. UK, USA, China, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Canada, and Hong Kong which all planning to stop ICOs), but worse than that, I can later some years from now be retroactively found to have violated common sense notions of securities and become culpable under the law.

So honest developers won’t risk it. Instead you’ll have the scammers who seem to not care and have a criminal mindset who are offering the ICOs.

That is a dysfunctional outcome. And the regulators of the G20 are waking up and realizing it can’t be allowed.

I wish there would be some globalized regulatory standard asap, but there will not be soon.

Thus honest people should not be touching ICOs. They shouldn’t issue them, nor trade in them. Unless they have a criminal mindset and do not care about their future trouble with the law.

Additionally, as I have pointed out numerous times already, the ICO-issued tokens (even if legally issued) will be at best illegal to trade on non-regulated exchanges and via P2P spending (and at worst unregistered and illegal to trade). IOW, an ICO-issued token becomes encumbered with future regulation issues and is entirely unsuitable for a decentralized ledger cryptocurrency token.

Startups who embark on the ICO journey are creating automated value transfer systems that operate across borders with no KYC. These systems, once turned on, cannot be turned off or controlled. But the startups will continue to be expected to maintain them.

This is not easy, technically or legally. For this reason, the SAFT is clearly not anything near a cure-all for the compliance issues an ICO startup will later face, whether in the field of securities regulation or otherwise.

An interview about SAFT explains some of the issues, but do realize I disagree that the SAFT is a valid solution.
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September 09, 2017, 12:31:06 AM
 #117

I don't think it's the end of ICO's but it will surely affect the amount of money raised since the USA and China won't be participating.  The days of crazy amounts of bitcoins and ethereums being thrown at ICO's might be over and it will take much more work to get investors. 
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September 09, 2017, 12:34:10 AM
 #118

…since the USA and China won't be participating.

Why do you not mention Russia, South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, Canada, and the UK, which have all warned that more regulation of ICOs is probably coming.

Japan regulates the hell out of everything, so surely they will join the regulation party.

Also the EMSA (EU) can regulate ICOs in a heartbeat:

https://www.coindesk.com/icos-eu-will-slow-giant-regulate-tokens/
https://news.bitcoin.com/europe-power-ban-blockchain/ <- “Europe Will Have Power to Ban Blockchain Tech in January 2018”
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September 09, 2017, 12:35:24 AM
 #119

As long as there is unregulated flow of anything valuable, governments and people will seek to control it. China is only the first and they will break the iceberg with this.

How powerful are major players in the U.S. markets and investing over the U.S. government to stop them for any regulation? We'll find out, we know all these big guys have only gotten into crypto in the last 1-2 years.
'
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September 09, 2017, 02:52:20 PM
 #120

China is indeed the largest global market in Asia if for ICO project affairs, how the community controls the problems that exist in china and stop regulations that prohibit the manufacture of ICO in one of these largest markets.
I keep wondering if this kind of thing is only temporary or forever? Huh
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