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Author Topic: Usability of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.  (Read 561 times)
FortySeven
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September 04, 2017, 08:48:12 AM
 #1

Dear Community,

I would like to address and discuss a couple of questions to you.
Do you agree that usability of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies in real monetary world is quite complicated and is associated with high transaction costs? I mean if you have Bitcoins or Ethereum in order to cash out with fiat currencies you have to go through complicated procedures and in some countries it is not allowed in general (if you receive money to your IBAN from some kind of unregulated Bitcoin exchange, the money will be frozen).

I believe that community lacks some kind of important infrastructure element (like a bank) which would provide full set of traditional products and services to cryptocurrency holders - the institution that would serve the needs of the community and would reduce complexities and transaction costs. What do you think about this? If such element would exist, what else functions do you think it should do and how else it could help the cryptocurrency community?

Our team is working on interesting project and your ideas would be highly appreciated and might be taken into account.

Thank you for your ideas and willingness to share your opinion.

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September 04, 2017, 08:57:54 AM
 #2

Do you agree that usability of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies in real monetary world is quite complicated
no there is nothing complicated about using bitcoin. it may be complicated for many of the altcoins since they don't have decent wallets, no services such as Coinbase for example, ...
but for bitcoin it is all easy and they want it is user friendly too. if you get to technical (which is not at all required for end users) then it becomes complicated.

Quote
and is associated with high transaction costs?
no, the transaction fees of bitcoin are low. you can transfer $10,000,000 in the safest way possible in an instant and only pay $4 (worse case scenario) or pay $0.05 in most cases.

Quote
I mean if you have Bitcoins or Ethereum in order to cash out with fiat currencies you have to go through complicated procedures and in some countries it is not allowed in general (if you receive money to your IBAN from some kind of unregulated Bitcoin exchange, the money will be frozen).
for ethereum yes, because it is not a currency. it is a token that you have invested in and you will have to sell it to get fiat in order to do anything with it.
but with bitcoin it is a currency, you can use it as such if the other party accepts it. so there is no need for any complications here either. you just point, click and pay.

Quote
I believe that community lacks some kind of important infrastructure element (like a bank) which would provide full set of traditional products and services to cryptocurrency holders - the institution that would serve the needs of the community and would reduce complexities and transaction costs. What do you think about this? If such element would exist, what else functions do you think it should do and how else it could help the cryptocurrency community?
something like that will have additional costs (fees) not less fees.
it is not possible to trust a third party like that.
and also we are using bitcoin because we want the option of not needing any third parties which means such businesses won't be so popular.

Quote
Our team is working on interesting project and your ideas would be highly appreciated and might be taken into account.

Thank you for your ideas and willingness to share your opinion.
well, services like Coinbase do exist and people use them. but they are only newcomers or those who want to purchase or trade bitcoin and a couple of altcoins that they offer. not someone who wants to use bitcoin.

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September 04, 2017, 09:17:17 AM
 #3

something like that will have additional costs (fees) not less fees.
it is not possible to trust a third party like that.
and also we are using bitcoin because we want the option of not needing any third parties which means such businesses won't be so popular.

Bitcoin does use third parties to transfer coins whether it is an online wallet or an offline wallet. When you use something like blockchain.info or an electrum wallet, you are trusting that website to not run off with your money or that software to not be malicious.

Also, you are the first in the forum that I have seen that says the transaction fees aren't very high. I've heard of stories where the transaction fee goes way beyond $4 for sure.

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September 04, 2017, 11:09:36 AM
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But what about traditional banking services for cryptocurrencies? Let's say you will have opportunity to get loans in BTC or ETH, or you will be able to deposit them earning an interest? Or, for example, if you have an application where you have access to both your wallets in BTC and ETH and additionally you have an access to your bank account and you can translate funds back and forth without any problems?

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September 05, 2017, 08:56:37 AM
 #5

But what about traditional banking services for cryptocurrencies? Let's say you will have opportunity to get loans in BTC or ETH, or you will be able to deposit them earning an interest? Or, for example, if you have an application where you have access to both your wallets in BTC and ETH and additionally you have an access to your bank account and you can translate funds back and forth without any problems?

Well, it seems like an interesting idea, but how would you calculate interest rates for BTC or ETH? I believe in traditional monetary economies interest rates depend on money supply and exchange rates between different currencies, but what about crypto...? The same question regarding loans - what kind of interest rates would you charge for a loan in BTC?
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September 05, 2017, 09:01:59 AM
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But what about traditional banking services for cryptocurrencies? Let's say you will have opportunity to get loans in BTC or ETH, or you will be able to deposit them earning an interest? Or, for example, if you have an application where you have access to both your wallets in BTC and ETH and additionally you have an access to your bank account and you can translate funds back and forth without any problems?

You can do that with Coinbase - your coinbase wallet is linked to your bank account, so you can move money back and forth quite easily. I believe they've enabled ethereum as well as bitcoin. Whether they add other cryptocurrencies depends very much on the demand for them.

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September 05, 2017, 09:36:21 AM
 #7

But what about traditional banking services for cryptocurrencies? Let's say you will have opportunity to get loans in BTC or ETH, or you will be able to deposit them earning an interest? Or, for example, if you have an application where you have access to both your wallets in BTC and ETH and additionally you have an access to your bank account and you can translate funds back and forth without any problems?

You can do that with Coinbase - your coinbase wallet is linked to your bank account, so you can move money back and forth quite easily. I believe they've enabled ethereum as well as bitcoin. Whether they add other cryptocurrencies depends very much on the demand for them.

Yes, but it takes some time, if I am correct, it takes around 4 business days for US and 2 days for EU. Imagine you would be able to do it instantly and without any transaction costs

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September 05, 2017, 09:44:27 AM
 #8

But what about traditional banking services for cryptocurrencies? Let's say you will have opportunity to get loans in BTC or ETH, or you will be able to deposit them earning an interest? Or, for example, if you have an application where you have access to both your wallets in BTC and ETH and additionally you have an access to your bank account and you can translate funds back and forth without any problems?

You can do that with Coinbase - your coinbase wallet is linked to your bank account, so you can move money back and forth quite easily. I believe they've enabled ethereum as well as bitcoin. Whether they add other cryptocurrencies depends very much on the demand for them.

Yes, but it takes some time, if I am correct, it takes around 4 business days for US and 2 days for EU. Imagine you would be able to do it instantly and without any transaction costs

Is this kind of linked by country of by banks? I mean does it work only if the bank is in that country or any banks as long as it is international?. I could live with some transaction cost as long as its can be fast as 15 minutes or even 30 minutes even. How about western union? Cause i think that could also be considered a bank even though its mostly for Overseas deliveries?

                                     
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FortySeven
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September 05, 2017, 10:00:26 AM
 #9

But what about traditional banking services for cryptocurrencies? Let's say you will have opportunity to get loans in BTC or ETH, or you will be able to deposit them earning an interest? Or, for example, if you have an application where you have access to both your wallets in BTC and ETH and additionally you have an access to your bank account and you can translate funds back and forth without any problems?

You can do that with Coinbase - your coinbase wallet is linked to your bank account, so you can move money back and forth quite easily. I believe they've enabled ethereum as well as bitcoin. Whether they add other cryptocurrencies depends very much on the demand for them.

Yes, but it takes some time, if I am correct, it takes around 4 business days for US and 2 days for EU. Imagine you would be able to do it instantly and without any transaction costs

Is this kind of linked by country of by banks? I mean does it work only if the bank is in that country or any banks as long as it is international?. I could live with some transaction cost as long as its can be fast as 15 minutes or even 30 minutes even. How about western union? Cause i think that could also be considered a bank even though its mostly for Overseas deliveries?

I believe it can be done via digital bank which works also with cryptocurrencies and does not need to connect to exchange in order to translate BTC to USD or EUR for its client. The bank will do it by itself having assets in BTC as well as in other crypto assets. The procedure will take a couple of minutes.

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September 05, 2017, 10:17:59 AM
 #10

But what about traditional banking services for cryptocurrencies? Let's say you will have opportunity to get loans in BTC or ETH, or you will be able to deposit them earning an interest? Or, for example, if you have an application where you have access to both your wallets in BTC and ETH and additionally you have an access to your bank account and you can translate funds back and forth without any problems?
Lol! Show me the idiot who agreed to take out a loan in bitcoins! Imagine the situation when you this year took out a loan in bitcoins at 1000 dollars, and will give next year to give you $ 5,000. As you 500% APR? This is without taking into account the interests of the Bank.
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September 05, 2017, 10:25:55 AM
 #11

Do you agree that usability of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies in real monetary world is quite complicated and is associated with high transaction costs?
no and no.
it is not really complicated if you don't complicate it for yourself. it is the easiest thing in the world! you choose a wallet then in that wallet there is usually a section called receive, you copy that "thing" in there that is in fact your bitcoin address and receive bitcoin.

to send you go in the same wallet and go to (surprise surprise) send section and paste the "thing" that the other party gave you to pay him. that thing is his bitcoin address.

which part of it was hard and complicated?


Quote
I mean if you have Bitcoins or Ethereum in order to cash out with fiat currencies you have to go through complicated procedures and in some countries it is not allowed in general (if you receive money to your IBAN from some kind of unregulated Bitcoin exchange, the money will be frozen).
then that is an issue with banking system not bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency!

Quote
I believe that community lacks some kind of important infrastructure element (like a bank) which would provide full set of traditional products and services to cryptocurrency holders - the institution that would serve the needs of the community and would reduce complexities and transaction costs. What do you think about this? If such element would exist, what else functions do you think it should do and how else it could help the cryptocurrency community?

Our team is working on interesting project and your ideas would be highly appreciated and might be taken into account.

Thank you for your ideas and willingness to share your opinion.
i don't know. i will probably need a lot more information than that to be able to say anything. information on its regulation, the fees that "like a bank" place will have, the verification steps it will require and more.

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September 05, 2017, 10:39:44 AM
 #12

Do you agree that usability of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies in real monetary world is quite complicated and is associated with high transaction costs?
no and no.
it is not really complicated if you don't complicate it for yourself. it is the easiest thing in the world! you choose a wallet then in that wallet there is usually a section called receive, you copy that "thing" in there that is in fact your bitcoin address and receive bitcoin.

to send you go in the same wallet and go to (surprise surprise) send section and paste the "thing" that the other party gave you to pay him. that thing is his bitcoin address.

which part of it was hard and complicated?


I am talking that it is complicated in terms that not everybody accepts BTC. You can easily transfer BTC from your wallet to another and pay for services and products - that's true, but if you would like to buy something and the merchant does not accept BTC - it is a problem. Imagine you would like to buy real estate or an expensive car, than it gets complicated and you will have at first to use the exchange to get fiat money to pay for it.

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September 05, 2017, 10:44:03 AM
 #13

Do you agree that usability of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies in real monetary world is quite complicated and is associated with high transaction costs?
no and no.
it is not really complicated if you don't complicate it for yourself. it is the easiest thing in the world! you choose a wallet then in that wallet there is usually a section called receive, you copy that "thing" in there that is in fact your bitcoin address and receive bitcoin.

to send you go in the same wallet and go to (surprise surprise) send section and paste the "thing" that the other party gave you to pay him. that thing is his bitcoin address.

which part of it was hard and complicated?


I am talking that it is complicated in terms that not everybody accepts BTC. You can easily transfer BTC from your wallet to another and pay for services and products - that's true, but if you would like to buy something and the merchant does not accept BTC - it is a problem. Imagine you would like to buy real estate or an expensive car, than it gets complicated and you will have at first to use the exchange to get fiat money to pay for it.

Of course it's a problem. But you can't build a massive, self-sufficient economy in a day, or a few years. What else would you expect in the early adoption phase of a technology? In the future, it is expected that one wouldn't need to exchange to fiat money to pay for anything. But nobody should expect that to happen overnight.

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September 05, 2017, 10:46:18 AM
 #14

I am talking that it is complicated in terms that not everybody accepts BTC.

they are not accepting bitcoin because it is volatile, because it is not regulated and most important of all because people are not willing to spend their bitcoin (it is their investment after all!).
it is not at all because of it being complicated!

an advanced approach is setting up a wallet that generates a new address for every purchase. an easier approach is to go through a payment processor like BitPay. again not at all complicated.

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September 05, 2017, 10:53:12 AM
 #15

Do you agree that usability of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies in real monetary world is quite complicated and is associated with high transaction costs?
no and no.
it is not really complicated if you don't complicate it for yourself. it is the easiest thing in the world! you choose a wallet then in that wallet there is usually a section called receive, you copy that "thing" in there that is in fact your bitcoin address and receive bitcoin.

to send you go in the same wallet and go to (surprise surprise) send section and paste the "thing" that the other party gave you to pay him. that thing is his bitcoin address.

which part of it was hard and complicated?


I am talking that it is complicated in terms that not everybody accepts BTC. You can easily transfer BTC from your wallet to another and pay for services and products - that's true, but if you would like to buy something and the merchant does not accept BTC - it is a problem. Imagine you would like to buy real estate or an expensive car, than it gets complicated and you will have at first to use the exchange to get fiat money to pay for it.

Of course it's a problem. But you can't build a massive, self-sufficient economy in a day, or a few years. What else would you expect in the early adoption phase of a technology? In the future, it is expected that one wouldn't need to exchange to fiat money to pay for anything. But nobody should expect that to happen overnight.

I completely agree with you, such things do not happen overnight and even in a couple of years - it will take much time for traditional economies to adopt crypto assets. However, innovative financial technology infrastructure elements might be created in the nearest future and using their services you might be able to pay with your BTC to a merchant selling in EUR, whereas the bank will provide clearing procedure by itself - BTC will be taken from you and merchant will receive EUR without even knowing the transaction was somehow connected to cryptocurrency.

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September 05, 2017, 11:13:08 AM
 #16

I believe that community lacks some kind of important infrastructure element (like a bank) which would provide full set of traditional products and services to cryptocurrency holders - the institution that would serve the needs of the community and would  reduce complexities and transaction costs . What do you think about this? If such element would exist, what else functions do you think it should do and how else it could help the cryptocurrency community?

I don't really think anything of that

At least, not yet. What we need right now are cheap and instant-fast transactions on the network level. Since you are talking about reducing transaction costs, I'm curious what your point is. If you mean yet another web wallet (under whatever name) with in-house transactions fast and free, there is nothing new since there are already quite a few web wallets out there. If you mean something else, please explain, but stop using all these buzz words like "innovative financial technology infrastructure elements". They are falling on deaf ears

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September 05, 2017, 11:20:09 AM
 #17

I believe that once services upgrade to SegWit and fix their buggy fee calculation algorithms, we will be good. Bitcoin is very suitable with transactions that involves large amounts of money and as for micro payments we will have LN soon.

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September 05, 2017, 11:22:37 AM
 #18

If we need to convert Bitcoin back to fiat for making everyday transactions. Then that will defeat the overall purpose of Bitcoin as a currency. Your service won't be different from any exchange. Many exchanges provide such services by taking Bitcoin from the users and paying in fiat to service provider, atleast in my country. That project can be profitable to you but it is not new.

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September 05, 2017, 11:45:56 AM
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I agree that it would make it easier for some users to have some sort of bank like infrastructure to help them with all of the 'difficult' technical aspects of Bitcoin.
But I would never recommend such a service to any new users, the most important thing about being a Bitcoin user is being in control of your own coins.

Bitcoin was created to let people be in charge of their own funds, right during/after the banking crisis.


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FortySeven
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September 05, 2017, 11:48:55 AM
 #20

But what about traditional banking services for cryptocurrencies? Let's say you will have opportunity to get loans in BTC or ETH, or you will be able to deposit them earning an interest? Or, for example, if you have an application where you have access to both your wallets in BTC and ETH and additionally you have an access to your bank account and you can translate funds back and forth without any problems?
Lol! Show me the idiot who agreed to take out a loan in bitcoins! Imagine the situation when you this year took out a loan in bitcoins at 1000 dollars, and will give next year to give you $ 5,000. As you 500% APR? This is without taking into account the interests of the Bank.

Imagine the situation when you are paid for your products and services in BTC at fixed rates and you are not anyhow exposed to BTC/USD exchange rate risk. Why wouldn't you take a loan in BTC, especially taking into account the fact that in this case you also do have probability of upside if the rate goes down.

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