BFL upgrade now offered on 5ghz orders.(screenshot) YES, IT'S BACK!!

[Bicknellski]

or maybe...

[Bitcoinorama]

I'm nonchalant towards BFL as I'm not invested. As a bystander what angers me is that their mistakes, both engineering, and public relations, are amateur and for the most part could have been avoided. There is every reason for their investors to criticise them, they've wantonly damaged their own reputation as a genuine business. In lieu of a CEO slating people openly on a public forum under a separate account; he could have shown some humility; opened up to problems earlier, dealt with some flack earlier, maybe lost some preorder monies earlier, instead of hoarding it, then getting himself into greater financial difficulty later. He should have ditched the ego, and asked the community for support to help through design issues. It would have been a hell of a lot cheaper than whatever advice they've been paying for...

[k9quaint]

After reading all the bashing here in the forums, some from competitor trolls, and some from customers, this seems more like an angry customer at walmart demanding a full refund on their toaster after ten years of use. Where did that community spirit go?

I have to admit it's a lot of fun to read all these elaborate posts here, serious posts mixed with jokes and one-liners. What makes it even more fun is that there is some truth to it, humor at best. I only wish that it was kept on that level, and not turn into something destructive making it even harder for BFL reach "our" goal. Yes, being a customer in a community driven project it is in "our" interest they are successful, it's not their responsibility alone.

The customer service at Walmart is orders of magnitude better than that of BFL. Just read through Inaba's post history for a taste. You forgot Avalon and bASIC in the history of things. The community rooted them on for a time as well. Then the marketing war started and things turned ugly. BFL relentlessly attacked via marketing that their chips were so much more power efficient and had better performance. That turned out not to be true at all. In fact, given their delays it turns out their marketing claims of actual measurements were baseless.

What turned me off to BFL was Josh's incandescent disdain for the community that spawned him, and BFL's sketchy marketing campaign.

Delays are to be expected. Notice how the community treats Avalon now? They had delays too.

[Xian01]

What turned me off to BFL was Josh's incandescent disdain for the community that spawned him, and BFL's sketchy marketing campaign.

 Even animals know you aren't supposed to shit where you eat.

[modrobert]

Definitely. Curse those trolls and their perfectly reasonable complaints about this scam!

If this was a scam/con BFL would be long gone by now, cashing out at the peak around new year already, close to the Avalon release. Unless you use the word "scam" to point out that the product design draws more power than initially stated in the features. I'm more worried the project will fail in ways so we all get refunded (my order was placed in early October).

BFL is a private company.  While there was a general feeling of excitement about ASICs in mid 2012 and the promise of delivery in October or November 2012, that feeling has well and truly worn off.  Even your best friend can become really annoying if they keep making and breaking promise after promise.  I don't know the ins and outs of the problems BFL encountered, but when you say you're weeks away from shipping in October 2012 and begin to trickle out a few units 6 months later there's something seriously wrong.

I don't think the 'angry Walmart customer seeking a refund on a ten year old toaster' analogy works on any level.  The vast majority of BFL customers have yet to receive anything from the company.  I know I could have asked for a refund from BFL a long time ago.  We all do.  We also know that if enough people ask for one it will collapse the company simply because BFL must have used a large chunk of the preorder money for product development, making boxes, wafers, PCBs, employee time, etc.

This has to be the lamest comparison, ever. BFL has received an incredible amount of goodwill (and money!) from the Bitcoin community. All the community got from them are INSULTS and BIG FAT LIES.

I feel that being pro-BFL or anti-BFL is not the right way to classify people. I don't think there are too many delighted current or ex-BFL customers. People who might fall in either camp are *both* disappointed in BFL's lack of performance and broken promises. Some people choose to hang on their spot in the queue and hope BFL turn the corner. Others get fed up and cancel. Both are pissed off.

I was greedy and placed an order without doing much due diligence. After a few days I corrected my initial mistake and after a few weeks I cancelled. If I'd done my due diligence first I never would have ordered. I am now invested elsewhere, and even though it's in my economic interest for BFL to continue to stumble I do feel for the people who have chosen to wait, and I do hope they get their hardware. But at the same time it would turn my stomach for BFL to succeed when they have mislead and deceived so much.

I have to agree that total honesty would have been preferred, but to BFL's defense, they had the pressure from the competition to deal with back then and choose not to reveal too much which might have been a mistake looking at it now, in many cases I think they were just overly optimistic, it happens when working with something you truly burn for and invest all time to complete, makes you blind and defensive.

I've been following some threads in this forum, probably missed a lot of them, but categorically the insults early on from BFL where replies to forum users who were already bashing away at them, trying to undermine the whole project and their credibility. This is where my "lame walmart comparison" comes in; if you treat people as your equal in a community (including BFL), then everything seems relatively normal, two forum users arguing, both having valid points. As soon you start leaning on your rights as a customer and demand to be treated as such, then many will regard their replies as insults, but only because it is expected to wildly curse the company and get the bog standard "Is there anything else I can help you with? Lick your toes perhaps while you verbally shit all over me?". That said I think the BFL tactic of replying actively in this forum to defend themselves was a bad choice, it only made matters worse, but oddly enough it proved once again to me that they are only human, and actually belongs in this crazy wonderful community (unlike walmart).

As you probably noticed by now I'm still behind BFL here, supporting them. This is not because I believe every word they say, or to protect my investment. You might think I'm gullible or stupid, this might be true, but if doing business on internet since before the 2k shift has taught me anything it is to be paranoid. No, I'm backing BFL because I want to see this project succeed, and being painfully stubborn myself while watching BFL struggle only makes me support them more, even if it means carrying them over the finish line.

[philips]

What turned me off to BFL was Josh's incandescent disdain for the community that spawned him, and BFL's sketchy marketing campaign.

 Even animals know you aren't supposed to shit where you eat.

That is more or less what you did unfortunately.

[Gomeler]

I emailed BFL asking if the ASIC upgrade would be extended for FPGAs. I was told it will not extend past May 31st. BFL FPGA's are about to plummet in price if you haven't upgraded them already.

edit: Oops, wrong thread but still interesting info.

[Bitcoinorama]

I emailed BFL asking if the ASIC upgrade would be extended for FPGAs. I was told it will not extend past May 31st. BFL FPGA's are about to plummet in price if you haven't upgraded them already.

edit: Oops, wrong thread but still interesting info.

Doubtful, they're still making coin, whilst their ASICs aren't...

[Xian01]

What turned me off to BFL was Josh's incandescent disdain for the community that spawned him, and BFL's sketchy marketing campaign.

Even animals know you aren't supposed to shit where you eat.

That is more or less what you did unfortunately.

 I do admit to getting irate, true. It never should have come to that Wouldn't have under normal circumstances.

[Bicknellski]

What is really telling to me is your apology Xian01... that speaks to your integrity. The lack of an apology is also very telling and really gets to the root of the problem at BFL. Failure is acceptable and even the preferred way to learn and as a teacher, with 17 years experience, I expect and desire that from my students, however ignoring and or not accepting responsibility for a failure is a flaw at the moral core of a human being. Clearly those who do that lack this basic human aspect of morality were never given the opportunity to develop that as a child and later an adolescent and was a result of a less than ideal environment. Morality is a major part of human development particularly from 6 - 18 years of age and deviations from that norm are only common place when people are not afforded a supportive and safe environment to do so or they may even have a genetic dispensation for amoral behavior. I wonder which it is for those working for BFL, as it seems at every turn they choose the amoral option? Given that why should anyone give them support, monetary or otherwise, the benefit of the doubt, or even root for them to pull through when it seems the organization and it's members lack the basic human integrity and morality that I observed each day in 6 to 9 year old students?

[bassclef]

If this was a scam/con BFL would be long gone by now, cashing out at the peak around new year already, close to the Avalon release. Unless you use the word "scam" to point out that the product design draws more power than initially stated in the features. I'm more worried the project will fail in ways so we all get refunded (my order was placed in early October).

The answer is that a long con is more profitable. Why would they cash out at the peak when millions in preorders are still pouring in? It also gives more time for them to squirrel money away if and when the ship starts sinking. Sonny has plenty of experience doing this, given his criminal history and experience in moving millions of dollars between bank accounts, profits of his multi-year mail order scam. Sonny's dad and his Laissez Faire City followed a similar path to destruction: It was semi-successful and yes, it existed and people lived there, but he embezzled away huge amounts of money according the audit. I think the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree, in this case.

[modrobert]

The answer is that a long con is more profitable. Why would they cash out at the peak when millions in preorders are still pouring in? It also gives more time for them to squirrel money away if and when the ship starts sinking. Sonny has plenty of experience doing this, given his criminal history and experience in moving millions of dollars between bank accounts, profits of his multi-year mail order scam. Sonny's dad and his Laissez Faire City followed a similar path to destruction: It was semi-successful and yes, it existed and people lived there, but he embezzled away huge amounts of money according the audit. I think the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree, in this case.

Wouldn't it be smarter to avoid developing a prototype and paying for the ASIC mask if the goal is to con people? I mean, why bother now when they can actually make more money selling the product which is already out there.

[Frizz23]

Wouldn't it be smarter to avoid developing a prototype and paying for the ASIC mask if the goal is to con people? I mean, why bother now when they can actually make more money selling the product which is already out there.

My theory for their incredible amount of dilettantism is this: There's no pressure on BFL, because they already have our money.
They have enough venture capital and pre order money for another six months(?). Another year(?). Who knows. I assume Josh & Sonny grant themselves a princely salary (say $800,000 per year) because they are such high potentials  .

Once this money is gone, and/or no more new money comes in, because even hillbillies understood that difficulty made BFLs devices unprofitable, BFL is history.

Once BFL goes belly up, prosecutors can't find anything unlawful, because BFL tried as best as they could to bring ASICS to the market. Oh noes, who could have know that they fuck up each and every step? It was just another startup that failed ...

[San1ty]

I'm also not amused with the perma-delays we keep on hearing from BFL, but you guys are still a whole other kind... So consumed by your blind hatred of BFL that once they go belly-up it will be like losing a part of yourself, you need them to fuel your anger!

TL;DR: You guys NEED BFL!

Disclaimer: I'm just trolling here, need to keep myself entertained.

[dropt]

Who knows. I assume Josh & Sonny grant themselves a princely salary (say $800,000 per year) because they are such high potentials  .

Once this money is gone, and/or no more new money comes in, because even hillbillies understood that difficulty made BFLs devices unprofitable, BFL is history.

[...]

Once BFL goes belly up, prosecutors can't find anything unlawful, because BFL tried as best as they could to bring ASICS to the market. Oh noes, who could have know that they fuck up each and every step? It was just another startup that failed ...

You forgot the part where they sell a copy of the mask to a newly formed tech company for pennies on the dollar in efforts to balance the books and stave off bankruptcy.  As BFL implodes, said newly founded tech company starts a massive solo mining asic farm.

[Exoskeleton]

I'm also not amused with the perma-delays we keep on hearing from BFL, but you guys are still a whole other kind... So consumed by your blind hatred of BFL that once they go belly-up it will be like losing a part of yourself, you need them to fuel your anger!

TL;DR: You guys NEED BFL!

Disclaimer: I'm just trolling here, need to keep myself entertained.

We need BFL so we can point and say "there, thats the bad guy".

Funny thing is I agree with you a bit here. I love the drama this situation creates. Every week I have to know if BFL has started full scale shipping yet. People are losing so much money by the week that it gives a great weight to the tragedy element. Im not really angry at BFL at all, in fact I have to thank them for slowing the difficulty down like no one else could have.

I have to admit, I don't want this to end. If BFL ever starts full scale shipping I will be sad to see the BFL show come to an end. I think we will get a few more seasons though 

[peterepeat]

I can see they are offering the upgrade on Jalapenos again

[k9quaint]

I'm also not amused with the perma-delays we keep on hearing from BFL, but you guys are still a whole other kind... So consumed by your blind hatred of BFL that once they go belly-up it will be like losing a part of yourself, you need them to fuel your anger!

TL;DR: You guys NEED BFL!

Disclaimer: I'm just trolling here, need to keep myself entertained.

We need BFL so we can point and say "there, thats the bad guy".

Funny thing is I agree with you a bit here. I love the drama this situation creates. Every week I have to know if BFL has started full scale shipping yet. People are losing so much money by the week that it gives a great weight to the tragedy element. Im not really angry at BFL at all, in fact I have to thank them for slowing the difficulty down like no one else could have.

I have to admit, I don't want this to end. If BFL ever starts full scale shipping I will be sad to see the BFL show come to an end. I think we will get a few more seasons though  

As a miner, BFL was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I have to thank them for acting as a sea anchor on the difficulty rise.
There are 500 scams on these forums with new ones showing up every day. BFL is just the tall pole in the tent right now.

[Kouye]

I'm more worried the project will fail in ways so we all get refunded (my order was placed in early October).

This is flat out dreaming.
If you ever wanna see a a refund, better get it now, they obviously won't be able to cover for everyone.
You know they have been paying 25 employees, suppliers, facilities, Josh's life insurrance, a few Nexus 7 and fans, etc. for over a year using your "pre-order" money, right ?

Hell, the infamous quarter might even be yours... 

[Bitcoinorama]

I'm more worried the project will fail in ways so we all get refunded (my order was placed in early October).

This is flat out dreaming.
If you ever wanna see a a refund, better get it now, they obviously won't be able to cover for everyone.
You know they have been paying 25 employees, suppliers, facilities, Josh's life insurrance, a few Nexus 7 and fans, etc. for over a year using your "pre-order" money, right ?

Hell, the infamous quarter might even be yours... 

Not to mention a warehouse supposedly full of entirely the wrong casings...