6 hours no confirmation, with fees

[ronaldlee0917]

http://blockchain.info/tx/7833ed0e395ff3cdc59ab10a2b2e5264532f26437b7cd42d9a2802fd5c8d0671

I used Multibit to send the bitcoins and it automatically added a fee of 0.0001btc, I thought it would get confirmed quickly but it was not.
Will it get confirmed eventually after a day or two?
I am starting to hate Bitcoin, whether I include a fee or not, they take forever to be confirmed, the confirmation mechanism is the major obstacle to mass adoption.

[grue]

Keep in mind that 0.0001 BTC is less than 2 cents. If you want fast confirmation times, paying a fee of 0.001 BTC (less than 15 cents) would ensure confirmation within 1 hour.

[ronaldlee0917]

Keep in mind that 0.0001 BTC is less than 2 cents. If you want fast confirmation times, paying a fee of 0.001 BTC (less than 15 cents) would ensure confirmation within 1 hour.

Thats the problem of Bitcoin, you have to pay more to ensure it is done quickly.
What if I am going to buy just an apple that costs $0.5, then I have to pay $0.1 to have it confirmed quickly. That's 20% of the cost and I have to stand there for an hour like an idiot. Bitcoin as a fast payment method is a joke.

[grue]

Thats the problem of Bitcoin, you have to pay more to ensure it is done quickly.
What if I am going to buy just an apple that costs $0.5, then I have to pay $0.1 to have it confirmed quickly. That's 20% of the cost and I have to stand there for an hour like an idiot. Bitcoin as a fast payment method is a joke.

Bitcoin is not for microtransactions. Also keep in mind that most payment processors charge the merchant $0.25 + 2.5% in fees. Assuming you have some sort of high volume merchant account, and your fees are $0.20 + 2%, that transaction would have cost you at least 0.188 BTC. If you included that as a fee, your transaction will be in the next block guaranteed.

[halfawake]

I see a lot of these posts asking why confirmations aren't happening more quickly.  grue compared Bitcoin to credit cards, but I think a better comparison to the traditional financial world is money transfers between banks.  I just initiated one of those a few days ago and it's going to take 5 - 7 business days to complete.  I'd love it if traditional bank transfers took only two days like bitcoin does at the longest (I think). 

[Abdussamad]

Bitcoin is slow. That's just the way it is. The rule of thumb is that you have to wait for 6 confirmations and that can take an hour at least.

@OP: Your transaction will confirm eventually. Even zero fee transactions confirm eventually.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

If you buy an apple, the merchant will not make you stand there for an hour, he will let you eat the apple and then ban you from the store if you double spend.

[Abdussamad]

You can't do micro-payments with bitcoin. I think we already established that in this thread. So bitcoin will only be used to buy stuff that is materially significant in which case the store owner will definitely want confirmed payment.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

You can't do micro-payments with bitcoin. I think we already established that in this thread. So bitcoin will only be used to buy stuff that is materially significant in which case the store owner will definitely want confirmed payment.

Not if they use something I'm developing.

[Abdussamad]

You can't do micro-payments with bitcoin. I think we already established that in this thread. So bitcoin will only be used to buy stuff that is materially significant in which case the store owner will definitely want confirmed payment.

Not if they use something I'm developing.

Oh, do tell?!!

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

You can't do micro-payments with bitcoin. I think we already established that in this thread. So bitcoin will only be used to buy stuff that is materially significant in which case the store owner will definitely want confirmed payment.

Not if they use something I'm developing.

Must be something to do with Ripple, isn't it?

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

You can't do micro-payments with bitcoin. I think we already established that in this thread. So bitcoin will only be used to buy stuff that is materially significant in which case the store owner will definitely want confirmed payment.

Not if they use something I'm developing.

Must be something to do with Ripple, isn't it?

No.

I will make an announcement when it's ready.

[grue]

Not if they use something I'm developing.

Oh, do tell?!!

I'm guessing it's some sort of risk managed 0-confirmation payment provider. Merchants pay him x% as a fee and he provides a guarantee (within a few seconds) on the transaction.

[ISAWHIM]

[Bitcoin is not for microtransactions.

Yes, it is. That is why it has 0.00000001 decimals.

WE decided to LIMIT micro-transactions. It was DESIGNED for micro-transactions, WE simply agreed to limit them with code.

Yes, it will take longer to go through, but it will eventually go through. Most servers don't even check or care about "free" or "micro"... However, they are the last ones to get done, since higher paying customers have paid for transactions to go through faster. The priority is set in code, and reinforced on servers.

Not MADE for micro-transactions, my ass... lol. That was the whole purpose of bitcoins. To be "bits" (micro).

[grue]

Yes, it is. That is why it has 0.00000001 decimals.

WE decided to LIMIT micro-transactions. It was DESIGNED for micro-transactions, WE simply agreed to limit them with code.

Yes, it will take longer to go through, but it will eventually go through. Most servers don't even check or care about "free" or "micro"... However, they are the last ones to get done, since higher paying customers have paid for transactions to go through faster. The priority is set in code, and reinforced on servers.

Not MADE for micro-transactions, my ass... lol. That was the whole purpose of bitcoins. To be "bits" (micro).

satoshi said himself that bitcoins are not designed for micropayments. that role should be left to third party clearing houses.

[DannyHamilton]

- snip -
Yes, it will take longer to go through, but it will eventually go through. Most servers don't even check or care about "free" or "micro"... However, they are the last ones to get done, since higher paying customers have paid for transactions to go through faster. The priority is set in code, and reinforced on servers.
- snip -

You really don't know what you're talking about and should stop repeating this nonsense.  You're just going to confuse others.

[BTConomist]

satoshi said himself that bitcoins are not designed for micropayments. that role should be left to third party clearing houses.

Interesting... Do you remember where he had said that?

I can't seem to remember ever reading such assertion.

[solex]

Not if they use something I'm developing.

Oh, do tell?!!

I'm guessing it's some sort of risk managed 0-confirmation payment provider. Merchants pay him x% as a fee and he provides a guarantee (within a few seconds) on the transaction.

Excellent. This is exactly what is needed to make Bitcoin better for quick transactions at bricks-and-mortar shops. It is already supreme for on-line purchases because people expect a delay before receipt of goods.

[DannyHamilton]

satoshi said himself that bitcoins are not designed for micropayments. that role should be left to third party clearing houses.

Interesting... Do you remember where he had said that?

I can't seem to remember ever reading such assertion.

Here's the closest I could find with a quick search:

- snip -
A transaction is over the maximum size limit if it has to add up more than 500 of the largest payments you've received to make up the amount.  A transaction over the size limit can still be sent if a small fee is added.

The average transaction, and anything up to 500 times bigger than average, is free.

It's only when you're sending a really huge transaction that the transaction fee ever comes into play, and even then it only works out to something like 0.002% of the amount.  It's not money sucked out of the system, it just goes to other nodes.  If you're sad about paying the fee, you could always turn the tables and run a node yourself and maybe someday rake in a 0.44 fee yourself.

It would be nice to keep the blk*.dat files small as long as we can.

The eventual solution will be to not care how big it gets.

But for now, while it's still small, it's nice to keep it small so new users can get going faster.  When I eventually implement client-only mode, that won't matter much anymore.

There's more work to do on transaction fees.  In the event of a flood, you would still be able to jump the queue and get your transactions into the next block by paying a 0.01 transaction fee.  However, I haven't had time yet to add that option to the UI.

Scale or not, the test network will react in the same ways, but with much less wasted bandwidth and annoyance.

Emphasis added by me.

[BTConomist]

satoshi said himself that bitcoins are not designed for micropayments. that role should be left to third party clearing houses.

Interesting... Do you remember where he had said that?

I can't seem to remember ever reading such assertion.

Here's the closest I could find with a quick search:

- snip -
...A transaction over the size limit can still be sent if a small fee is added...

In the event of a flood, you would still be able to jump the queue and get your transactions into the next block by paying a 0.01 transaction fee.

It doesn't mean that bitcoin is "not designed for micro-payments"... He merely clarified what would happen to certain transactions if txn fee is not included. Remember, the goal is to eventually have fees assigned to pretty much every transaction in the block chain.