Does Binance do some diligence upon listing? SONM listing

[Almeida]

Well, it is disappointing that Binance is listing this terrible ICO token. I was SCAMMED during their ICO upon sending BTC for sonm tokens, they scammed not only me but some others (ask jack0m -- legendary -- and others), it is everything in SONM ANN thread with proof of the transactions, and all my addresses, so you don't need to believe me, just check from here and following msgs (see page 185):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1845114.msg19966184#msg19966184

SONM dismissed SebastianJU as escrow just before the start of the ICO and didn't tell him until he asked, and they kept his name announced with posts in their threads as escrow without telling the investors they dismissed him. Again, don't need to believe me, ask SebastianJu himself if you don't believe, he is a highly respected escrow in this community.


SONM swindled his polish team, kicking them out of the project after they worked. Check the thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1895293.0

In that thread, Barnaba and krzyszpPL are ex-members of the polish former branch of the team. They were SCAMMED, look carefully at that thread, send messages to them if you want to check these claims, their names and faces are public there in the links.

Andrew Voronkov was a founder of SONM who LEFT THE PROJECT just after the ICO due to this scandal. Voronkov is a scientist and brought his polish colleges from @drug_discovery project which uses BOINC technology for grid computing. He obviously kept appearances and didn't want to comment, but the fact is that he left the project he himself founded.

During my "communication" with SONM, they showed repeated times they were not reading my emails. They finally tried to reply in the ANN thread with falsehoods and implicitly accusing me of some bad intention, while I was trying to talk for weeks and they only gained time saying they had a lot of emails and blah blah. They gave me tokens the moment they chose, manually processing my contribution nearly 5 hours after I sent the transactions, finally they gave me a worse exchange rate and wrong bonus. I published all the transactions, I even signed to prove ownership of the BTC address I contributed with, and they ignored for over a month saying there were "scam" attempts, when finally they came with a pathetic reply.

They were BANNING people who were complaining about those issues in their slack and telegram channels. They are really a greedy disrespectful untrustworthy bunch.

I asked many times for a refund, they ignored, showing how greedy they are and how they don't give a shit about their community.

Don't delude yourself with websites, names and marketing, this project is an outright marketed scam and I'm very disappointed Binance decided to list this junk.

They published one of their marketing videos promising Bittrex listing just after the ICO, but the truth is Bittrex listed half a dozen or so coins/tokens/icos after sonm's ICO, and they didn't list SONM, why? Well, maybe is because SONM contract is not even verified at etherscan:

https://etherscan.io/token/0x983f6d60db79ea8ca4eb9968c6aff8cfa04b3c63

Their reputation is "neutral" there, meaning they lack (click on the reputation to see):

3) 'OK' reputation

An OK reputation is not an endorsement, but it is of our opinion (and at our own discretion) that the project has (either or a combination of the following criterias):

a. provided sufficient and accurate information
b. clear project goals and communication
c. visible profile of the project founders/backers/advisers
d. no significant 'red' flags (that we were aware of at the point of time the reputation score was assigned)
e. the token is traded/listed on a major crypto exchange which has AML/KYC checks (i.e coinbase, poloniex, kraken, bittrex, yunbi or a similiar exchange)

Or maybe is because Bittrex checked all the problems above (as probably the etherscan team did). So they most probably didn't get approved in Bittrex compliance process, they applied nearly 3 months ago (around mid of june), as they also didn't get an OK reputation in etherscan.

Let all be aware of this shitcoin, trade it at your own discretion.

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[Almeida]

See how they dismissed SebastianJU:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1845114.msg19574248#msg19574248

[snakey]

I will comment the technical part of the schedule of these ICOs.

when they start they have no money, they just pay bills from their pocket.
soon the ICO starts and they start minting some money but the smart contract was created before the ICO by seeing videos on youtube now they suffer how to validate contract even having money they find it difficult because if you change the contract then the whole token goes waste.

The Forum guy "rebelsalesman" is a nasty pool of scum no doubt he was screaming over slack that SONM will be better than Golem but where we are.. Clearly this concept is beyond the reach of SOHM and even out of reach of Golem Team. I won't wonder if Golem Fails.

[Almeida]

Exactly!!

I won't judge Golem project, but SONM showed they not only lack professionalism and honesty, they showed they can't handle an ICO, let alone building all the fantastic things they claim. They did bash Golem project, which is like kids bragging without showing a product, they are really a bunch of pretentious, dishonest and disrespectful people. Bringing shame to russians, which is sad because russians are a very capable people.

Just consider how many different and unrelated people they duped, ex team members, escrows and investors, very telling.

I will comment the technical part of the schedule of these ICOs.

when they start they have no money, they just pay bills from their pocket.
soon the ICO starts and they start minting some money but the smart contract was created before the ICO by seeing videos on youtube now they suffer how to validate contract even having money they find it difficult because if you change the contract then the whole token goes waste.

The Forum guy "rebelsalesman" is a nasty pool of scum no doubt he was screaming over slack that SONM will be better than Golem but where we are.. Clearly this concept is beyond the reach of SOHM and even out of reach of Golem Team. I won't wonder if Golem Fails.

[Lauda]

SONM dismissed SebastianJU as escrow just before the start of the ICO and didn't tell him, yet they kept his name in their ANN thread as escrow. Again, don't need to believe me, ask SebastianJu himself if you don't believe, he is a highly respected escrow in this community.

Shadiness on a quite high level; I'm certain that there is a fair amount of people who invested in belief that the project was escrowed by him (or just a third party in general). Provide a confirmatory statement from SebastianJu that this really has happened, and a list of accounts that are related to the project. Do you know how much time has passed between his kick and before he was finally removed?

[Almeida]

SONM dismissed SebastianJU as escrow just before the start of the ICO and didn't tell him, yet they kept his name in their ANN thread as escrow. Again, don't need to believe me, ask SebastianJu himself if you don't believe, he is a highly respected escrow in this community.

Shadiness on a quite high level; I'm certain that there is a fair amount of people who invested in belief that the project was escrowed by him (or just a third party in general). Provide a confirmatory statement from SebastianJu that this really has happened, and a list of accounts that are related to the project. Do you know how much time has passed between his kick and before he was finally removed?

Hi Lauda,

all I know came afterwards by reading previous messages in that long thread, if you click the link I sent in my second msg (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1845114.msg19574248#msg19574248
) you will see what SebastianJU wrote himself, please take the time to read that and some further msgs (and believe me, many invested without knowing SebastianJU was removed in a timely manner because it was just before the ICO in the same day!!!).

The account involved in the ICO from the SONM team that I know is this one:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=821847

There are other accounts but I'm not sure they are part of the team, but rather hired people to keep repeating ad nausea to contact support and bonus emails. If this is important I can try to fetch those too, let me know.

EDIT: this is one of the profiles of "hired" people, I'll link to their trust section:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1016061

Thank you for taking a look at this, Lauda.

[ilia7777]

Well, it is disappointing that Binance is listing this terrible ICO token. I was SCAMMED during their ICO upon sending BTC for sonm tokens, they scammed not only me but some others (ask jack0m -- legendary -- and others), it is everything in SONM ANN thread with proof of the transactions, and all my addresses, so you don't need to believe me, just check from here and following msgs:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1845114.msg19966184#msg19966184

SONM dismissed SebastianJU as escrow just before the start of the ICO and didn't tell him, yet they kept his name in their ANN thread as escrow. Again, don't need to believe me, ask SebastianJu himself if you don't believe, he is a highly respected escrow in this community.


SONM swindled his polish team, kicking them out of the project after they worked. Check the thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1895293.0

In that thread, Barnaba and krzyszpPL are ex-members of the polish former branch of the team. They were SCAMMED, look carefully at that thread, send messages to them if you want to check these claims, their names and faces are public there in the links.

Andrew Voronkov was a founder of SONM who LEFT THE PROJECT just after the ICO due to this scandal. Voronkov is a scientist and brought his polish colleges from @drug_discovery project which uses BOINC technology for grid computing. He obviously kept appearances and didn't want to comment, but the fact is that he left the project he himself founded.

During my "communication" with SONM, they showed repeated times they were not reading my emails. They finally tried to reply in the ANN thread with falsehoods and implicitly accusing me of some bad intention, while I was trying to talk for weeks and they only gained time saying they had a lot of emails and blah blah. They gave me tokens the moment they chose, manually processing my contribution nearly 5 hours after I sent the transactions, finally they gave me a worse exchange rate and wrong bonus. I published all the transactions, I even signed to prove ownership of the BTC address I contributed with, and they ignored for over a month saying there were "scam" attempts, when finally they came with a pathetic reply.

They were BANNING people who were complaining about those issues in their slack and telegram channels. They are really a greedy disrespectful untrustworthy bunch.

I asked many times for a refund, they ignored, showing how greedy they are and how they don't give a shit about their community.

Don't delude yourself with websites, names and marketing, this project is an outright marketed scam and I'm very disappointed Binance decided to list this junk.

They published one of their marketing videos promising Bittrex listing just after the ICO, but the truth is Bittrex listed half a dozen or so coins/tokens/icos after sonm's ICO, and they didn't list SONM, why? Well, maybe is because SONM contract is not even verified at etherscan:

https://etherscan.io/token/0x983f6d60db79ea8ca4eb9968c6aff8cfa04b3c63

Their reputation is "neutral" there, meaning they lack (click on the reputation to see):

3) 'OK' reputation

An OK reputation is not an endorsement, but it is of our opinion (and at our own discretion) that the project has (either or a combination of the following criterias):

a. provided sufficient and accurate information
b. clear project goals and communication
c. visible profile of the project founders/backers/advisers
d. no significant 'red' flags (that we were aware of at the point of time the reputation score was assigned)
e. the token is traded/listed on a major crypto exchange which has AML/KYC checks (i.e coinbase, poloniex, kraken, bittrex, yunbi or a similiar exchange)

Or maybe is because Bittrex checked all the problems above (as probably the etherscan team did). So they most probably didn't get approved in Bittrex compliance process, they applied nearly 3 months ago (around mid of june), as they also didn't get an OK reputation in etherscan.

Let all be aware of this shitcoin, trade it at your own discretion.

Almedia, can I ask you to focus on facts please. How much you've invested ? How exactly your bonus was miscalculated ? Which exchange rate was used, which one was supposed to be used and why ? How many tokens you think that you didn't receive as a result ? 

[Lauda]

Hi Lauda,

all I know came afterwards by reading previous messages in that long thread, if you click the link I sent in my second msg (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1845114.msg19574248#msg19574248
) you will see what SebastianJU wrote himself, please take the time to read that and some further msgs (and believe me, many invested without knowing SebastianJU was removed in a timely manner because it was just before the ICO in the same day!!!).

I need a summarized timeline. Could you fill this in?

June 15, 2017 - SebastianJu posts about his removal from escrowing.
date - SebastianJu is removed from the thread.
date +1 - ICO starts

Almedia, can I ask you to focus on facts please.

He has been doing that. You're confused.

[Almeida]

Hi Lauda,

all I know came afterwards by reading previous messages in that long thread, if you click the link I sent in my second msg (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1845114.msg19574248#msg19574248
) you will see what SebastianJU wrote himself, please take the time to read that and some further msgs (and believe me, many invested without knowing SebastianJU was removed in a timely manner because it was just before the ICO in the same day!!!).

I need a summarized timeline. Could you fill this in?

No problem, I assume you are asking about the SebastianJU issue first.

So, SebastianJU was used as escrow in their pre-ICO and, assumed to be used in ICO since they didn't update the information. I'll quote posts from that thread, the ICO was 15th of June, SebastianJU came to know (only by his own inquiry) he was not escrow anymore hours prior to the ICO, in 15th of June, they dismissed him without warning him or the other investors. See the timestamps.

PROOF:

UPDATE:

Good news, everyone!

We've made the final arrangements with SebastianJU about the SONM crowdsale escrow.

SebastianJU, the legendary bitcointalk escrow, will provide his escrow service both for the SONM preICO and ICO.
All the preICO and ICO funds will be collected to his escrow wallet.

In a few days we'll announce the final version of the SONM whitepaper + the exact date of the preICO start.

Stay tuned)

They didn't say anything, rebel.salesman is responsible for SONM threads and is a sonm members. Then we have SebastianJU message warning everybody as he came to know HOURS PRIOR TO THE ICO HE WAS OUT:

Hello everyone, SebastianJu here, official escrow of SONM. Normally I would have written something already days ago about how things will move and would have given more details. Unfortunately I lost contact with everyone from SONM some time ago. I requested to speak about and check the new contracts some time already and was told it will happen before the ICO.

Well, I often tried to get in contact the last days also, sent pm's on bitcointalk as well as email and dm's on slack to rebel.salesman, who normally is my contact, alexey and sergey. I was ignored except finally sergey answered me with the actual link to the ico contract on github. I checked and found it a bit strange to read nothing about anything pointing to the use of an escrow.

So I used a channel with sergey and rebel.salesman on slack and wanted things to clear. Time already was pretty far by that point because no one bothered to speak with me:

@channel it looks to me like there is no escrow involved anymore in the ico contract. I would appreciate to hear something else but the code leaves a different impression. Also you did not communicate with me at all about the ico even though I was told we would speak upfront about it. I tried to get in contact all the last days. Time is forward way too far now so it does not sound believable to happen. Also having too much work to do is not believable since the seamless work of the escrow part is fundamental for the safety of the ICO into both directions.
I do not know what happened. Maybe you would have wished to renegotiate the escrow fee. You did not try that at all. Maybe you wanted more safety... in that case I would have been able to bring in one or two other trustworthy escrows and create a 3 of 5 multisig. but no communication happened.
Guys, I will go to bed now. Please answer me in a proper way so that it looks like you take this serious. I hope this can be cleared earlier than 6 hours before the ICO starts.
I really hope you can tell me I interpreted everything wrongly.

Well, 2 hours earlier rebel.salesman answered me with this:

"Sebastian, hi, sorry for delayed response - lots of work to do at the moment.

We are going to use ICO smart contract with multisignature as the escrow. Multisignature will be held by Sergey Ponomarev, Alexey Antonov, and SONM advisers.

I'm really sorry we didn't contact you earlier to discuss it.
Lots of work is not an excuse, we should tell you about it before.

Anyway, it's pleasure to have business with you. Thank you for your help and your time during the preICO!"

So the ICO is NOT escrowed anymore. The invested funds will be held by the SONM team totally. I can not provide any safety from now on and I need to take my name from the safety sign of the SONM ICO. Just to make clear that I will have no access nor control about invested funds.

Not sure what to say about that behavior. I believe nobody would have contacted me without me pressuring that way. People would have invested believing I hold the funds in escrow. Which is not the case.

Nobody contacted me about negotiating something upfront, telling me about a change or tried changing something in the deal for the ICO.

So that's what I unfortunately only found out by putting pressure on the topic.

So again... this ICO is not escrowed anymore. Funds will be hold and controlled by SONM totally from the start.

(part in bold is mine)

Screenshots taken by investors showing how SONM mislead investors in their ANN:

NO ESCROW ??  NO SAFETY ? invest at your own RISK !!!!

I can't say this is true or not, but a member said this:

Clients https://icopromo.com

Chronobank.io
 
TAAS.fund
 
SONM.io

All these projects are connected among themselves. https://icopromo.com has an office at which people who write in branches of projects laudatory comments here at a forum work. It is about tens of multiaccounts on bitcointalk. I have also noticed their collective work in popular chats. Also https://icopromo.com buys articles which praise projects.

And also Seed investments/VC investments is engaged that actually is receiving the credit in BTC which they invest on start to create illusion of successful ICO. After the termination developers return these means of icopromo.com for a part of collecting.

It is organized group of serial swindlers.

SebastianJU was removed to be replaced by a multi-signature of SONM team itself, as if this is really escrowing (granted, assuming they even did this in the first place)!! Of those mentioned in the post above was Chronobank  whose CEO is a formal adviser of the project.

Then they sent some person to attack SebastianJU and trying to say it is safer having them as escrows than having third parties!!!

PROOF:

NO ESCROW ??  NO SAFETY ? invest at your own RISK !!!!

we want clarification from the sonm team

SONM uses multisignature address; three people have a key, they are Sergey Ponomarev, Alexey Antonov and SONM's advisor, Chronobank CEO Sergey Sergienko. We think that the trust towards SONM team members and Sergey Sergienko is much higher than the trust towards one person who recieves all funds as an escrow. SONM team believes that paying commission to the escrow guarant is an unnecessary investor's money spenditure and we have no right to trust Sebastian the money raised as he's not an authorized representative. Sebastian's statements are likely to show his mercenary interests. SONM team had spoken to the advisors and made the described decision
https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/19887061/27184110-b4e81a74-51e9-11e7-8307-c5533fdb5aad.png

The individual above seems to be SONM team member by reading his msgs. SebastianJU replied to that accusation, very typical of SONM people, to accuse and harass people in their way -- notice the first troll they sent asking me for details I already provided a dozen times and will again.


Also, isn't it funny the guy says "the escrow guarant (sic) is an unnecessary investor's money spenditure (sic) and we have no right to trust Sebastian the money raised as he's not an authorized representative", but yet USED HIM IN PRE-ICO AND TOLD EVERYONE HOW GREAT WAS HAVING HIM AS ESCROW!!!

Sebastian's reply:

guess I need to answer here also.

not sure about what "mercenary interests" mean.
in any case I am not the only escrow available. there are a lot of trustworthy ones on bitcointalk and I could have suggested some that are honest and trustworthy. a multisig escrow address could have been created involving the escrows and the team raising the security considerably. though there was no try to speak about something like that. the preico was held by me alone and for sure for the ico would have been something more safe needed. As well as proper rules of partly releasing the funds.
regarding escrow fees... everything could have been negotiated which also did not happen.
I somewhat can understand why they do want to hold the funds that way though I think they miss the importance of the independent party part. they want to set on the trust investors have in the keyholders which they are free to do. Though I have to take my name out in order to not held viable about funds I never held.

See how SebastianJU was calm, well-balanced in all messages, and they accused him of being a mercenary? Only because he asked a sum for his services they disagreed? Very, very telling the behavior. And absolutely shady what they did.

[Almeida]

June 15, 2017 - SebastianJu posts about his removal from escrowing.
date - SebastianJu is removed from the thread.
date +1 - ICO starts

Sry, I didn't notice this.

June 15, 2017 - SebastianJu posts about his removal from escrowing.
SebastianJu is removed from the thread. -- he was not removed from the thread
June 15, 2017 -4 to 5 hours later - ICO starts

SebastianJU posted some 4 or 5 hours only prior to ICO start, only then he came to know he was out. Only because of SebastianJU himself some people had time to read the thread and see he was out.

[Lauda]

Interesting story line and potential conspiracy theory (not that it would surprise me if it were the truth).

Sry, I didn't notice this.

June 15, 2017 - SebastianJu posts about his removal from escrowing.
SebastianJu is removed from the thread. -- he was not removed from the thread
June 15, 2017 -4 to 5 hours later - ICO starts

SebastianJU posted some 4 or 5 hours only prior to ICO start, only then he came to know he was out. Only because of SebastianJU himself some people had time to read the thread and see he was out.

How was he not removed from the thread? You said the following:

SONM dismissed SebastianJU as escrow just before the start of the ICO and didn't tell him, yet they kept his name in their ANN thread as escrow. Again, don't need to believe me, ask SebastianJu himself if you don't believe, he is a highly respected escrow in this community.

I'm asking until when it was left in the ANN thread that he was escrowing, i.e. when he was removed from it.

[Almeida]

I posted the links, he was announced as the escrow and they didn't inform anyone he was not the escrow anymore. They announced him here:

UPDATE:

Good news, everyone!

We've made the final arrangements with SebastianJU about the SONM crowdsale escrow.

SebastianJU, the legendary bitcointalk escrow, will provide his escrow service both for the SONM preICO and ICO.
All the preICO and ICO funds will be collected to his escrow wallet.

In a few days we'll announce the final version of the SONM whitepaper + the exact date of the preICO start.

Stay tuned)

Everybody assumed he was the escrow. This is what I've found so far, between the post of SebastianJU saying he was not the escrow and ICO starting was a matter of hours.

[Almeida]

And he actually acted as escrow for the "pre ico".

[Lauda]

I posted the links, he was announced as the escrow and they didn't inform anyone he was not the escrow anymore. They announced him here:

That is not what you've said. You specifically said in the ANN thread. An update post != ANN thread.

they kept his name in their ANN thread as escrow. Again, don't need to believe me, ask SebastianJu himself if you don't believe, he is a highly respected escrow in this community.

[vlom]

i was asked by the OP to comment in this topic.

thats what i can add:

i contacted the team via bonus@sonm.io several times. i wanted to know which bonus i received for my ICO investment. the first mail i sent in the middle of June. I received an answer end of July. Till today i don't know how they calculated the bonus.

i only invested 0.11364839 BTC.
and finally i was able to sell almost all my coins above ICO price.

thats why i decided to stop asking and bothering about the bonus.

so i just don't know if they scamed me or not.

[Almeida]

I posted the links, he was announced as the escrow and they didn't inform anyone he was not the escrow anymore. They announced him here:

That is not what you've said. You specifically said in the ANN thread. An update post != ANN thread.

they kept his name in their ANN thread as escrow. Again, don't need to believe me, ask SebastianJu himself if you don't believe, he is a highly respected escrow in this community.

Ok, you understood the ANN post itself, that's not what I meant to say, I see the confusion. They announced him in the threads, pre-ICO time I found, and everybody was assuming the ICO has escrows using him. Please read the timeline of posts I quoted, SebastianJU himself is quoted.

EDIT: I updated that part to make it clearer, still they announced him as escrow and didn't tell anyone he was out, never, but only SebastianJU himself asking and knowing hours prior the ICO was the one telling the community.

[jack0m]

During my "communication" with SONM, they showed repeated times they were not reading my emails. They finally tried to reply in the ANN thread with falsehoods and implicitly accusing me of some bad intention, while I was trying to talk for weeks and they only gained time saying they had a lot of emails and blah blah. They gave me tokens the moment they chose, manually processing my contribution nearly 5 hours after I sent the transactions, finally they gave me a worse exchange rate and wrong bonus. I published all the transactions, I even signed to prove ownership of the BTC address I contributed with, and they ignored for over a month saying there were "scam" attempts, when finally they came with a pathetic reply.

I confirm I had a similarly unpleasant experience with incorrect bonus calculations. First they asked to send our complaints to bonus@sonm.io, yet ignored all emails for more than one month, while repeatedly promising all issues would be solved "within a few days".
In the end they denied any token difference on the unproven claim that they got the correct ETH/BTC conversion rate from Coinmarketcap. I asked them several times to prove their claim and disclose the exact calculations based on BTC transaction's timestamps, and show the history API they were using to get conversion rates one month back, but they never answered. That would be a chance to show their good faith and transparency, as any reputable and trustworthy business does, but they prefer instead to keep treating others like idiots and lack common basic respect for contributors...

It's not surprising that SNM price is still far below ICO's rate, despite the recent announcement that Binance is listing it: after all price is made by the market, and the market won't trust any business which behaves in such a shady and disgraceful way!

[Almeida]

About the bonuses and exchange rates, they never, ever, released anything explaining how they did it. Their support was a joke, they made people waste time awaiting for clarifications to deny their request.

Some people are still constrained and afraid to tell everything because they still have tokens and they don't want to lose (more of) their money, because they know if many of them came here the token would tank even harder.

[ilia7777]

Almedia,

You are ignoring my question. While others clearly stated what was their experience, I don't see any facts and numbers from you. I understand that you are frustrated, so I'm trying to understand what exactly happened and what kind of solution would have satisfied you now should SONM decide to review your case and cases of others ? It seems that they were just overloaded with work, not necessarily there was bad intention on their side. Unfair behavior to investors would be just plain stupid.

[Almeida]

It is everything provided in the links I posted in the OP, page 185 of ANN thread is where you will find all the details of the message I sent to SONM and they ignored so I exposed it. Following pages are where you will find their ridiculous reply and my other reply.

And what you are saying is not true, no one provided anything that I didn't and I don't see why exactly I should reply your questions, since I don't know who you are. You have a russian name, Ilia, are you related to SONM project?

Almedia,

You are ignoring my question. While others clearly stated what was their experience, I don't see any facts and numbers from you. I understand that you are frustrated, so I'm trying to understand what exactly happened and what kind of solution would have satisfied you now should SONM decide to review your case and cases of others ? It seems that they were just overloaded with work, not necessarily there was bad intention on their side. Unfair behavior to investors would be just plain stupid.