[Group buy] Avalon chips Escrow John K / Please check refund list until Sunday

[varunsin]

Agreed.. Here is a quote from zefir today...

Update: Endgame

With ASICMINER today announcing blades for as low as 3.5BTC, it appeared that Avalon chips that do not mine today are not going to break even any more. While those blades went already out of stock after some hours, the new price for mining rig is officially set. Essentially this means that if Avalon does not ship the remaining chips fully within the next two weeks, they become worth less than their shipping costs.

Driven by this event, today I was flooded with refund requests that built up a queue of ~2000 chips. I do not expect any takers for this and it is realistic to assume that there will be no further refunds.


I am sad to admit that I do not believe in a fast and complete delivery of the remaining batches. This stopped to be a game the moment this group-buy alone funneled $500k to Avalon. Although we have only a small set of 'no BS rules', we still have a written commitment to deliver in time as part of the ToS. With so many community members taking a loss directly or indirectly through Avalon failing to meet their schedule, we (together with other customers) need to consider taking serious actions to end this tragedy.

At this stage our options are as follows:

• A. sit and wait
  That was my tactics so far, assuming that civilized and respectful behavior will ensure to get our chips as fast as possible. This in fact might have been the reason why so far our group-buy got more chips than others, at the same time with a delivery of one batch per month our last will arrive mid 2014 - ready for re-direction to the Bitcoin museum
• B. demand full refund
  The majority would be fine with getting their invested coins back and let this chapter pass into oblivion. According to Avolon's ToS, there will be no refunds. But if they really care about Bitcoin and its community and realize how much harm they caused to so many of us, they might consider playing fair and send us the coins back. This implies that you do not want your chips any more.
• C. negotiate for compensation
  While refunding all orders might exceed Avalon's capabilities, they might prefer offering a compensation in form of free chips or free upgrades to next-gen ones. This implies you would like continue dealing with Avalon.
• D. legal action
  Leave the polite arena and sue them into ground; make an example of them and put an end to the pre-order madness in Bitcoinland. This implies you are willing to throw more good money after the bad - for a very limited expectation. Your money would feed some poor lawyers and Avalon if needed will declare bankruptcy (they said they do not control the collected funds any more).

I personally will approach Avalon with options B and C for now and consider combining forces with other group-buy organizers for D if we do not hear back within a reasonable time-frame. If you have a different opinion you'd like to share, please do so either here or via PM.

I agree with you voxelot, with difficulty pilling up so high we don't have any other choice but I don't know how other members think on there ROI calculations. waiting for there response on this.

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[voxelot]

I mean I am open source dev and I actually have one of these bastards sitting on my laptop as I type this.  I should say I am okay with a no refund policy since my investment was so small.  Others may not agree however if they invested more.

Regards

[Zich]

Marto, i am fear that our batch 2 will be refunded if other group choose to refund

[marto74]

Marto, i am fear that our batch 2 will be refunded if other group choose to refund

Let's wait and see where is this going ...
For now I'm puting an order for the first batch of PCB's
Most of the components are already paid and reserved.
@the moment there is too much heat around here

[Zich]

Marto, i am fear that our batch 2 will be refunded if other group choose to refund

Let's wait and see where is this going ...
For now I'm puting an order for the first batch of PCB's
Most of the components are already paid and reserved.
@the moment there is too much heat around here

Yeah, i really hope there is at least 1 batch left or the HEX16 will be end as my wall decoration  

[dimomit]

Other groups start process for full refund. There are groups with more then 60 days delay. With current difficulty trend any delay just killing the ROI. My suggestion is to go for refund after 2 weeks of delay there is no reason to wait more!

[dnaleor]

Other groups start process for full refund. There are groups with more then 60 days delay. With current difficulty trend any delay just killing the ROI. My suggestion is to go for refund after 2 weeks of delay there is no reason to wait more!

don't forget: if others get refunds, our chips will be delivered sooner!

[marto74]

Other groups start process for full refund. There are groups with more then 60 days delay. With current difficulty trend any delay just killing the ROI. My suggestion is to go for refund after 2 weeks of delay there is no reason to wait more!

If on 16-th of September 06:00 EET (GMT+2) there is not @ least shipping info I'll ask everybody in the group to vote with signed message to go for refund or not. But @the present state about 6500 chip orders , become miner boards orders so for  now most of the group voted with their wallets to go for the chips.
I think that most probably the refund if any will be done with the second batch and 1-st batch will be delivered, combining users with different wishes between both batches .
But It is 2 weeks early for that

[quest]

Other groups start process for full refund. There are groups with more then 60 days delay. With current difficulty trend any delay just killing the ROI. My suggestion is to go for refund after 2 weeks of delay there is no reason to wait more!

don't forget: if others get refunds, our chips will be delivered sooner!

Yes, but definitely no roi when you receive the miner. Refund is the best option.

[voxelot]

Marto, i am fear that our batch 2 will be refunded if other group choose to refund

Let's wait and see where is this going ...
For now I'm puting an order for the first batch of PCB's
Most of the components are already paid and reserved.
@the moment there is too much heat around here

Thanks for the update marto74... I am with your decision either way.

[Zich]

NEWS(LETTER)!!

Avalon ASIC
Chips Delivery Update, September Edition

Due to events outside of our control, the delivery of chips have been delayed so far. While the situation are improving and chips are shipping, we have ultimately decided to revert our policy on no refunds and offer the option for customers to request a full refund(in bitcoin) if so desired.

The link to the request form is below, please note this only applies to orders made earlier than June 1st.

In other news, for those who decided to wait or wish to know more about delivery schedule will be glad to note we are receiving a batch of 400,000+ chips on Wednesday, with that we expect to be in good shape for meeting the upcoming deadlines of chip deliveries for orders made in June and later.

In addition, we hope to wrap up generation one, finish shipping the chips, construct the modules and build the 2 module Avalon mini, put this pre-order mess behind us in general and switch gear into 55nm production, tape out generation 3, and start work on improving chip design for generation 4. Only sell what we can produce in a day on the assembly line, and only what's in stock.

[varunsin]

I was on batch 2 with only 8 chip order. In case any of you on batch 1 want to refund, then i want to switch position to batch 1. Please reply in this thread 

Hello,

I am one of the Batch 1 members with an order of 16 chips. I already paid for 16 chips (0.085 * 16 = 1.36BTC) + 0.04BTC for the developer.

I am willing to sell my position of 16 chips to anyone with any offers greater then what I already paid (1.40BTC).
send me a PM or reply here.

Marto74 can confirm that I have paid for 16 chips in Batch 1.

Regards,

[darkfriend77]

Other groups start process for full refund. There are groups with more then 60 days delay. With current difficulty trend any delay just killing the ROI. My suggestion is to go for refund after 2 weeks of delay there is no reason to wait more!

If on 16-th of September 06:00 EET (GMT+2) there is not @ least shipping info I'll ask everybody in the group to vote with signed message to go for refund or not. But @the present state about 6500 chip orders , become miner boards orders so for  now most of the group voted with their wallets to go for the chips.
I think that most probably the refund if any will be done with the second batch and 1-st batch will be delivered, combining users with different wishes between both batches .
But It is 2 weeks early for that

I for my 32 chips i ordred ... vote for refund ... as soon as possible ...

I don't understand anyone who still want to have chips which will do no ROI ... at all ... but it's not my thing to understand everybody ...
Miner builders have a different point of view, as they probably have bought some material for the assembly ... but at this point we
only ordred chips so far ... and better then getting them at the end of the year ... is a refund now as long Yifu is doing it

marto74 I hope you are in contact with zefir and sebastianJu and all the other GB organizers ... to evaluate best solutions ...

... if some one wanna buy my chips ....

order#32 chips 32 for 2.72 BTC !

[voxelot]

Is it correct that marto74 purchased through the sebastianJu group buys?  I saw his name on an order for batch 6 of his buys.  

Sebastian is currently refunding batches 2-5 of his group buys I believe.  Keeping 1 and 6 in hopes they will be delivered quickly after all of the refunds.

Well "avalon" left him no choice on batch 6 order... he can't get a refund on those dates at this time.

[quest]

Other groups start process for full refund. There are groups with more then 60 days delay. With current difficulty trend any delay just killing the ROI. My suggestion is to go for refund after 2 weeks of delay there is no reason to wait more!

If on 16-th of September 06:00 EET (GMT+2) there is not @ least shipping info I'll ask everybody in the group to vote with signed message to go for refund or not. But @the present state about 6500 chip orders , become miner boards orders so for  now most of the group voted with their wallets to go for the chips.
I think that most probably the refund if any will be done with the second batch and 1-st batch will be delivered, combining users with different wishes between both batches .
But It is 2 weeks early for that

I for my 32 chips i ordred ... vote for refund ... as soon as possible ...

I don't understand anyone who still want to have chips which will do no ROI ... at all ... but it's not my thing to understand everybody ...
Miner builders have a different point of view, as they probably have bought some material for the assembly ... but at this point we
only ordred chips so far ... and better then getting them at the end of the year ... is a refund now as long Yifu is doing it

marto74 I hope you are in contact with zefir and sebastianJu and all the other GB organizers ... to evaluate best solutions ...

... if some one wanna buy my chips ....

order#32 chips 32 for 2.72 BTC !

I agree. I hope that we can receive a refund soon. Difficulty is increasing at a high rate :-|

[nemercry]

Hello marto74,

i sent you a mail regarding chips which will probably be sent on on wednesday. I just want you confirmation, that if i dont refund them and let them ship to your location, that you can put them together in a short time. If so i would start to set the Order immediatly and pay for it.
If you think there will be a big delay (more than one week after receiving the chips ?), i need to think about a refund. (I dont hope so).

Regards

[voxelot]

Also I am planning to have you ship my chip order directly to me and have not heard word of setting up a payment option or shipping address.  I think I PMed you once with an address but need to edit the address now.  I am moving and will be hosting Baby Jets and Terrahashes while I build with the chips being sent to you.

Thanks for the hard work marto74

[patica]

If on 16-th of September 06:00 EET (GMT+2) there is not @ least shipping info I'll ask everybody in the group to vote with signed message to go for refund or not. But @the present state about 6500 chip orders , become miner boards orders so for  now most of the group voted with their wallets to go for the chips.
I think that most probably the refund if any will be done with the second batch and 1-st batch will be delivered, combining users with different wishes between both batches .
But It is 2 weeks early for that

Is there any kind of "refund window" and when it closes?

[jkminkov]

7*                                      1012(was 1300)       110.5                     173Qmir9hTmvkb3Cmvgj78AV2CjL5azZYS
7*                                        176                       ------                     1L8eV6zNq2MA4tH7oamzVvcsUrgPd3U2uh
7*                                          16                       ------                     1Q9GGr3mSoEGfXU5rqwDKRqJm71GmnGGvG
7*                                          64                       ------                     1EMwTpfzsR6xyYBrMB7o4T2bM5pKbeVzFN
7*                                          32                       ------                     18h6cnCNQAPG2jfniNPav3E6kCRRPc66cC

Code:

I sold 64 of my 1108 chips to Strannik http://bitcoinbg.eu/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=78 link to trade offer http://bitcoinbg.eu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=241 buyer BTC address is 1EMwTpfzsR6xyYBrMB7o4T2bM5pKbeVzFN

I sold 32 of my 1108 chips to crab http://bitcoinbg.eu/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=207 and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=146986 link to trade offer http://bitcoinbg.eu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=241 buyer BTC address is 18h6cnCNQAPG2jfniNPav3E6kCRRPc66cC

signed jkminkov, 173Qmir9hTmvkb3Cmvgj78AV2CjL5azZYS

Code:

HCysJWC97roaYHu2eiQZPhJmwObsEmDMfRRN4cJzHOnI8+sEtlJgoAbZsASFn19fP0GWnaQRR6a72eqXvuIUGtE=

[dimomit]

Sebastian received refund from Avalon and already sent it to customers, fast and clean! Lets think again is the waiting is right strategy at moment...