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Author Topic: Islamic Bank of Bitcoin{}بنك بتكوين الاسلامي  (Read 105316 times)
myrkul
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October 03, 2012, 09:13:00 AM
 #381

Code:
A               B                 C                  D
------------------------------------------------------------
From/To         Description       Net change +/-     Balance
------------------------------------------------------------

This should be familiar to anyone who has ever balanced a checkbook.

And if you can't balance a checkbook, what are you doing investing in stocks? That's like trying to run before you can crawl.

(I hear the objections now - "But I use a debit card!" - To which I say: It's the same format used by the bank statements. You DO read those, right?)

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nrd525
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October 04, 2012, 03:03:19 AM
 #382

A cash on hand balance, while valuable, isn't the most important factor for a corporation. 

A more important indicator is an asset valuation.

So IBB lost about as much money from defaults (43.5 BTC) as it has earned since it started, right?

And IBB is paying out dividends and calling this "income", when in fact you are depleting your capital to do this?


Don't day trade.
bitcoinbear
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October 04, 2012, 03:18:56 AM
 #383

A cash on hand balance, while valuable, isn't the most important factor for a corporation. 

A more important indicator is an asset valuation.

So IBB lost about as much money from defaults (43.5 BTC) as it has earned since it started, right?

And IBB is paying out dividends and calling this "income", when in fact you are depleting your capital to do this?



Yes, for investors (or potential investors), what we want to see in each monthly report is: current assets (cash on hand, investments), current liabilities, monthly expenses, monthly revenue, monthly profit/loss, the monthly equity changes (dividends, stock sales).

You know, the financial statements.

All this "total since the beginning of time" and "on average per month" stuff just obfuscates the facts. Give a monthly report, and give a yearly report, but make it clear which one you are doing.

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nrd525
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October 05, 2012, 02:50:07 AM
 #384

>>the dividends are from the mergedmining shares + nasty shares

I'm not talking about dividends in the spreadsheet.  I'm talking about "dividends paid".  You are paying out dividends to your share holders, even though your company isn't making a profit (as the loan defaults are equal to the dividends from mining shares plus the gratuities).  Am I right about this or wrong?






Don't day trade.
myrkul
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October 05, 2012, 11:34:03 AM
 #385

>>the dividends are from the mergedmining shares + nasty shares

I'm not talking about dividends in the spreadsheet.  I'm talking about "dividends paid".  You are paying out dividends to your share holders, even though your company isn't making a profit (as the loan defaults are equal to the dividends from mining shares plus the gratuities).  Am I right about this or wrong?

Wrong. He's already explained. He makes almost BTC4 per month in profits, splits BTC2 up among the shares as dividends, and uses the rest to buy more shares in other ventures.

  • Average Net Income (monthly) = 3.84 BTC
  • Divdends (monthly) = 2.00 BTC

the 3.84 btc is the average monthly income, so I would buy shares with 1.84 and the remaining 2 pay out as dividend

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nrd525
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October 07, 2012, 03:06:00 AM
 #386

>Wrong. He's already explained. He makes almost BTC4 per month in profits, splits BTC2 up among the shares as dividends, and uses the rest to buy more shares >in other ventures.

Except that doesn't include the 43.5 BTC defaults that he wrote happened.

Sure he makes a profit in many months (if you only count that 30 day period), but when a default hits it knocks out several months of profit.

(I'm a fan of the IBB ideals, I just think he might be ruining it with bad accounting practices.)


Don't day trade.
bitcoinbear
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October 07, 2012, 11:54:54 AM
 #387

Will IBB continue without GLBSE? Do you have a contingency plan for shareholders?

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October 07, 2012, 07:25:41 PM
 #388

(I'm a fan of the IBB ideals, I just think he might be ruining it with bad accounting practices.)

you are more than welcome to become ceo of IBB  Cheesy

It doesn't need a new CEO, just a new CFO.

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Bitcoin Oz
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October 07, 2012, 11:08:08 PM
 #389

>>the dividends are from the mergedmining shares + nasty shares

I'm not talking about dividends in the spreadsheet.  I'm talking about "dividends paid".  You are paying out dividends to your share holders, even though your company isn't making a profit (as the loan defaults are equal to the dividends from mining shares plus the gratuities).  Am I right about this or wrong?

Wrong. He's already explained. He makes almost BTC4 per month in profits, splits BTC2 up among the shares as dividends, and uses the rest to buy more shares in other ventures.

  • Average Net Income (monthly) = 3.84 BTC
  • Divdends (monthly) = 2.00 BTC

the 3.84 btc is the average monthly income, so I would buy shares with 1.84 and the remaining 2 pay out as dividend



That is why irl companies usually dont pay dividends till the end of the financial year. Because you dont know if you have even made a profit that year so you shouldnt be paying dividends.

If you pay out 30btc in dividends over the year but you actually lost 60btc in bad debts then you shouldnt be paying dividends at all untill your gross income exceeds your costs which would include bad loans.

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October 08, 2012, 08:57:23 PM
 #390

US companies usually pay usually pay quarterly while many European companies pay bi-annually (twice a year).

In the Bitcoin world, everything seems to be different though Smiley
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November 06, 2012, 04:41:07 PM
 #391

Good news :-

Bitcoin-Starter launched http://www.bitcoinstarter.com/

This is good news but the page only has "notify me of the launch" form and that's it.  Sad

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
bitcoinstarter
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November 06, 2012, 04:52:59 PM
 #392

Good news :-

Bitcoin-Starter launched http://www.bitcoinstarter.com/

This is good news but the page only has "notify me of the launch" form and that's it.  Sad


Back up!  Smiley

🔥BitcoinStarter.com🔥- Crowdfunding with Bitcoin. Fund a project or start your own
EskimoBob
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November 11, 2012, 12:07:06 PM
 #393

Good news :-

Bitcoin-Starter launched http://www.bitcoinstarter.com/

This is good news but the page only has "notify me of the launch" form and that's it.  Sad


Back up!  Smiley

How is bitcoinstarter related to IBB?
(I did not find any bitcoinstarter official forum thread so I am going to ask here. Sorry, if this is a wrong place.)
I am thinking about splitting my "ART" project to smaller steps/targets and moving it over to a btc crowd funding platform. Looks like you guys use "all or nothing" approach where funding is lost, if target is not reached. Reason I do not want to use that is because this can turn in to a total waste of time for me and for the supporters. Second problem is, that I am planning to ship out goods for larger donations. Now, if I send the stuff out right away and target is missed, I have lost my supporters coin, time is wasted and goods are gone too. Sure, I can wait N months but what is the point letting your coin just sit on some strangers account, earning nothing and accumulating risk (getting riskier by the day Smiley

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
bitcoinstarter
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November 11, 2012, 10:58:35 PM
 #394

Hi again eskimobob,

Quote
How is bitcoinstarter related to IBB?

They have a vested interest in Bitcoinstarter.

Quote
(I did not find any bitcoinstarter official forum thread so I am going to ask here. Sorry, if this is a wrong place.)

Not yet but fairly soon we'll have an official thread.

Quote
I am thinking about splitting my "ART" project to smaller steps/targets and moving it over to a btc crowd funding platform. Looks like you guys use "all or nothing" approach where funding is lost, if target is not reached. Reason I do not want to use that is because this can turn in to a total waste of time for me and for the supporters. Second problem is, that I am planning to ship out goods for larger donations. Now, if I send the stuff out right away and target is missed, I have lost my supporters coin, time is wasted and goods are gone too. Sure, I can wait N months but what is the point letting your coin just sit on some strangers account, earning nothing and accumulating risk (getting riskier by the day Smiley

I responded to you here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=122189.msg1329844#msg1329844  Grin

🔥BitcoinStarter.com🔥- Crowdfunding with Bitcoin. Fund a project or start your own
usagi
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November 12, 2012, 02:23:52 AM
 #395

Good news :-

Bitcoin-Starter launched http://www.bitcoinstarter.com/

This is good news but the page only has "notify me of the launch" form and that's it.  Sad


Back up!  Smiley

How is bitcoinstarter related to IBB?
(I did not find any bitcoinstarter official forum thread so I am going to ask here. Sorry, if this is a wrong place.)
I am thinking about splitting my "ART" project to smaller steps/targets and moving it over to a btc crowd funding platform. Looks like you guys use "all or nothing" approach where funding is lost, if target is not reached. Reason I do not want to use that is because this can turn in to a total waste of time for me and for the supporters. Second problem is, that I am planning to ship out goods for larger donations. Now, if I send the stuff out right away and target is missed, I have lost my supporters coin, time is wasted and goods are gone too. Sure, I can wait N months but what is the point letting your coin just sit on some strangers account, earning nothing and accumulating risk (getting riskier by the day Smiley


"Planning to"? Have you actually shipped anything at all yet?
usagi
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November 16, 2012, 01:59:36 AM
 #396

Good news :-

Bitcoin-Starter launched http://www.bitcoinstarter.com/

This is good news but the page only has "notify me of the launch" form and that's it.  Sad


Back up!  Smiley

How is bitcoinstarter related to IBB?
(I did not find any bitcoinstarter official forum thread so I am going to ask here. Sorry, if this is a wrong place.)
I am thinking about splitting my "ART" project to smaller steps/targets and moving it over to a btc crowd funding platform. Looks like you guys use "all or nothing" approach where funding is lost, if target is not reached. Reason I do not want to use that is because this can turn in to a total waste of time for me and for the supporters. Second problem is, that I am planning to ship out goods for larger donations. Now, if I send the stuff out right away and target is missed, I have lost my supporters coin, time is wasted and goods are gone too. Sure, I can wait N months but what is the point letting your coin just sit on some strangers account, earning nothing and accumulating risk (getting riskier by the day Smiley


"Planning to"? Have you actually shipped anything at all yet?

Found the following post...

WARNING, DO NOT INVEST WITH ESKIMOBOB.

@EskimoBob you asset has just been desisted from #assets-otc and you will never be allowed to list any assets at this service.

I sent you the history of your asset by email - all 3 transactions and both the pgp keys.

Now go licking some more goats' balls.
EskimoBob
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November 16, 2012, 07:33:33 AM
 #397

Good news :-

Bitcoin-Starter launched http://www.bitcoinstarter.com/

This is good news but the page only has "notify me of the launch" form and that's it.  Sad


Back up!  Smiley

How is bitcoinstarter related to IBB?
(I did not find any bitcoinstarter official forum thread so I am going to ask here. Sorry, if this is a wrong place.)
I am thinking about splitting my "ART" project to smaller steps/targets and moving it over to a btc crowd funding platform. Looks like you guys use "all or nothing" approach where funding is lost, if target is not reached. Reason I do not want to use that is because this can turn in to a total waste of time for me and for the supporters. Second problem is, that I am planning to ship out goods for larger donations. Now, if I send the stuff out right away and target is missed, I have lost my supporters coin, time is wasted and goods are gone too. Sure, I can wait N months but what is the point letting your coin just sit on some strangers account, earning nothing and accumulating risk (getting riskier by the day Smiley


"Planning to"? Have you actually shipped anything at all yet?

Found the following post...

WARNING, DO NOT INVEST WITH ESKIMOBOB.

@EskimoBob you asset has just been desisted from #assets-otc and you will never be allowed to list any assets at this service.

I sent you the history of your asset by email - all 3 transactions and both the pgp keys.

Now go licking some more goats' balls.

Thank you for quoting  out of context! Brilliant way to show what kind of a scumbag and liar you are. Bravo!

Another offtopic rant from Usagi, who wasted and swindled away thousands of investors BTC.
First, let me ask this, what happened to your post count number? You had about 1000 posts and look at you now, only 157 posts. Nice job deleting your crap from the forum.
And now, tell us all how many thousands of investors BTC you lost thanks to your own stupidity and incompetence? Was it close to 7500 BTC? (look it yup, it's in one of your posts)
Usagi, please crawl back to that hole you game from. Nobody needs your hysterical dramas and endless rants on topics you know nothing about.
If you like to accuse me on something, go do it in Scam Accusations sub forum.    
Stop following me around like a pervert.
  

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
teflone
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November 16, 2012, 08:52:07 PM
 #398

This is not an appropriate place to banter guys.. come on...    Wink

For Canadians by Canadians: Canada's Bitcoin Community - https://www.coinforum.ca/
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November 20, 2012, 06:02:04 PM
 #399

There has been a movement in a positive direction regarding GLBSE asset data.

GLBSE blog: Issuers being given shareholder lists

Quote
Gigamining has been given a list of his shareholders (not 100% complete, still waiting on some users).

You can expect about 3-4 asset issers a day to be given shareholder lists, starting from what were the largest assets moving down.

I hope IBB will claim it's list soon so it can continue moving forward.

The team behind BTC-trading Co. is offering a free listing to exGLBSE share issuers. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126920.msg1347762#msg1347762
Will IBB move there or you have something else in mind Senbonzakura?

Quote from: TraderTimm
For me, bitcoin is freedom that I never thought I'd see in my lifetime.
Danijel Habek
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November 21, 2012, 09:57:50 PM
 #400


Apart from some fee differences, obvious differences in site engine and trading execution, which I've found to be advanced enough yet simple enough for beginners, on both options.
Using both solutions, I've found to like more the UI and user/trading features implemented in BTC-T than cryptostocks.

But the key differences that would swing me to the BTC-T right now I believe are well summed in burnsides post here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101694.msg1335397#msg1335397


It has definitely been discussed and is somewhat covered in the FAQ.

3 major differences that make this unlike any other sites available right now.

A) We are incorporated.  For real.

B) Legal wording is such that this is an entertainment/educational site only.  Assets are not real.  There is no recourse if an asset fails.  Etc.  This makes it more risky for "investors", but less risky for the asset issuers and most importantly, less risky to BTC Trading Corp.  This would seem like a huge issue at first, but realistically there is little recourse in an asset failure situation anyway.

C) Asset issuers are free to leave at any time.  I have made it simple (via website, json api, or email) to get a list of people holding your asset such that you can move to another exchange or to private management pretty much at will.  We even force it upon the asset issuers in the form of an email every 12 hours.  Smiley

There's lots of other differences, but those I think are the key ones.


I believe overhead for issuer/manager would be a bit less using some of features presented on BTC-T page such as:

Ability to schedule dividends. Pay dividends based on date/time in the future.
Ability to email all shareholders important notifications.
Ability to temporarily stop trading on your asset when you have big announcements.

Please, do add more of what you think is relevant to pick the right tool from the choices you've presented.

Quote from: TraderTimm
For me, bitcoin is freedom that I never thought I'd see in my lifetime.
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