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Author Topic: Islamic Bank of Bitcoin{}بنك بتكوين الاسلامي  (Read 102377 times)
senbonzakura
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June 24, 2011, 01:34:44 AM
 #1

Danijel Habek
danijel.habek@ib-bitcoin.com


IBB - Islamic Bank of Bitcoin مصرف بتكوين الاسلامي
*Interest Free loans

*Musharakah - Joint Venture

Danijel Habek named as new CEO of Islamic Bank of Bitcoin

The Islamic Bank of Bitcoin, a Bitcoin banking company operating on Islamic Sharia financial principles, today announced the appointment of their new CEO Danijel Habek. Mr. Habek will immediately assume responsibility for all Islamic Bank of Bitcoin operations and strategy. Mr. Habek brings a lifetime of business experience to his new role. He replaces a shareholder who previously had interim CEO responsibilities.

“I look forward to bringing my experience and leadership to the Islamic Bank of Bitcoin” said Mr. Habek. “In my new role as Chief Executive, I will be responsible for establishing a permanent and useful web presence for the IBB, investing in new joint ventures, and continuing our program of interest free loans.”

“The IBB is at the forefront of Bitcoin finance” continued Mr. Habek. “We believe that finance based on Islamic principles is an incredibly beneficial thing for Bitcoin. Having a strong Islamic bank that is prepared to share profit and risks in joint ventures could significantly boost the Bitcoin economy.”

Mr. Habek has been a supporter of the IBB almost since day one, buying a significant amount of shares. All of his share dividends have been ploughed straight back into the bank. “Right away I saw the potential” said Mr. Habek. “I saw how the IBB could benefit the community by helping enterprising people get their Bitcoin business ideas off the ground. That, in turn, benefits all of us.  The religious aspect aside, Sharia banking principles fit perfectly with our early stage economy. They are tailor made for getting things off the ground.”

Mr. Habek’s first task will be to refine the IBB business plan and continue to sell IBB’s new issue of shares on Cryptostocks.com. The resulting capital raised will be spent on a secure and functional new IBB website, investments in new joint ventures, continuing interest free loans, infrastructure lease, and other expenses. He will also be tasked with reassuring IBB customers and shareholders after the migration to Cryptostocks in the aftermath of the GLBSE collapse.

“Our function is to help people reach their goals,” said Mr. Habek. “I intend to run the bank according to that principle. Whether we’re helping people with small loans, getting involved in exciting joint ventures, or engaging in some other type of activity, I will always bear that in mind.”

Danijel Habek is a longtime IT entrepreneur with an intimate understanding of business. After a long and celebrated career as an IT professional, he set up his own IT business in 2003. Since then he has worked on a large number of successful IT projects. Mr. Habek is also known as a man with an exceptional community spirit. He often volunteers his time and expertise to IT projects surrounding his local Sporting Association.

About the Islamic Bank of Bitcoin

The Islamic Bank of Bitcoin is a Sharia compliant Bitcoin banking organization that offers interest free loans and shared profit/loss joint ventures to people of all faiths in the Bitcoin community.

Contact Information

Islamic Bank of Bitcoin
Danijel Habek
danijel.habek@ib-bitcoin.com
http://www.ib-bitcoin.com/

----

IBB Joint Ventures - Musharakah


www.BitcoinStarter.com , Kickstart your project with Bitcoins - crowdsourced funding , a platform to raise funds (using Bitcoins)
  







Ticker IBB , listed at www.CryptoStocks.com
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June 24, 2011, 03:11:21 AM
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Bitcoin Islamic Bank Or Islamic Bank of Bitcoin? مصرف بتكوين الاسلامي



A bank that will offer :-

1. 0% Interest Free Loans

2. Musharakah

Musharakah (joint venture) is an agreement between two or more partners, whereby each partner provides funds to be used in a venture. Profits made are shared between the partners according to the invested capital. In case of loss, each partner loses capital in the same ratio. If the Bank provides capital, the same conditions apply. It is this financial risk, according to the Shariah, that justifies the bank's claim to part of the profit

......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_bank

What other services would you like this bank to offer? Do you have any suggestions on what to include? Maybe info in Arabic on how to start using bitcoins and then provide funds to start up business of you choice?

Would you be interested in this project , or have another project similar to this? Please do share your idea/suggestions.


I am not Muslim, yet I think this is a wonderful idea. If the rest of the world followed the advice of the good book, we wouldn't be facing financial collapse.

I think simply holding the coins and letting users withdraw to other addresses is quite useful. People don't seem to be able to secure their coins on their own machines. Mybitcoin.com already does this, but more competition is good.

Clearcoin is shutting down indefinitely. I understand it was fairly popular and was a good source of donations. I think you could provide escrow services as well.

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June 24, 2011, 05:22:25 AM
 #3

Agreed- fascinating idea. Is Bitcoin still Sharia compliant despite not being back by anything tangible? Have any Islamic scholars given an opinion on the status of Bitcoin?

I think you should consider targeting non-Muslim customers as well. Several faiths in Western history have successfully capitalized on their reputation for honesty. Look into the history of the Quakers.

You would have to may it clear you were apolitical but the Muslim reputation in the West for somewhat implacable faith would work entirely to their benefit in a banking or money exchange context.



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June 24, 2011, 05:57:02 PM
 #4

Good luck with this, one of the more interesting ventures I have read on through the forums.

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June 24, 2011, 08:01:13 PM
 #5


أعتقد أن فكرتك هي فكرة جيدة. من شأنه أن يساعد شخص في ليبيا ، على سبيل المثال.

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June 24, 2011, 08:39:38 PM
 #6

This appears to be a rationalization for a practice that violates the spirit, if not the letter of the command against usury in the Koran.  Christians did this for centuries before re-defining usury (which is also a sin in Christianity and Judaism) as "excessive" interest rather than any interest.   

I'm not a Muslim, much less an Imam, so my opinion shouldn't matter to anyone. It's just my thought. 
Question: are their restrictions against lending at interest to non-Muslims? In the European middle ages, Jews became bankers bacause they were the only ones who could charge interest to the majority Christians without the Church getting upset.

Perhaps Jews, Christians and Muslims should lend to each other to avoid violating our respective prohibitions concerning lending to ourselves in a mutually beneficial partnership. Peace achieved through mutual self interest. Free markets make good neighbors.

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senbonzakura
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June 24, 2011, 09:04:27 PM
 #7

""Question: are their restrictions against lending at interest to non-Muslims?""

Yes, profit from the bank must be halal (permissible). So if the bank lends at interest, the interest then is profit for the bank, and that would mean muslims(or jews/christians) cannot buy shares in the company as the bank deals with interest, which makes it non-permissible/haram.

I think a muslim a cannot buy alcohol for example to give it to a non-muslim friend as a gift (though the muslim is not drinking it himself/herself).

If something is not allowed in islam (pork/wine/interest etc..) I cannot buy/sell for my own profit(in those things that are prohibited) or for someone's  profit.

I cannot start a wine business and sell wine/alcohol to non-muslims while i am not consuming it myself (according to shariah law).

""Perhaps Jews, Christians and Muslims should lend to each other to avoid violating our respective prohibitions""

indeed but also lend to people of other faiths, after all its 0% interest free loan, who would refuse? Tongue

the laws is for the good of mankind, why lend to muslims at 0% and lend to non-muslims at interest?
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June 24, 2011, 09:20:55 PM
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I think this is an excellent area of exploration. However i have a few reservations, how will you compensate for loans that default ? If you don't charge anything for lending out money your net result will be negative.

I myself have studied both Islam, Judaism, and Christianity, and i do know all of the 3 have historically played with the devils advocate... The Christians outsourced usury to Jews when the pope demanded end of interest, and i do know that todays modern "Islamic Banks" (are not Islamic at all) those banks "resell properties at a premium for longerterm periodic payments" making it equal to usury (but on paper they can say "hey we're 100% Sharia we don't charge interest!").

The way i see it, the bank together with potential investors/bank could do as you say "joint venture" with a client who requests a loan, making it a "equity investment" which should be 100% Bible/Koran compatible if the investment appreciates in value investors, the client and the bank profit, if it declines all the 3 parties share the loss (this also seems as most ethical form of banking). Now, this makes sense. But it gets complicated, you plan to offer this service to anyone ? (some anonymous person can request an investment in a project, commerical or consumer) ?

I think this seems like a very risky business. How will you deal with reducing fraud/abuse ?

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June 24, 2011, 09:26:24 PM
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I cannot start a wine business and sell wine/alcohol to non-muslims while i am not consuming it myself (according to shariah law).

So Muslim clerks at convenience stores and bodegas all over the U.S. are in violation of Sharia?

What is interest if not a risk premium? Lenders profit when they price the risk of loan repayment correctly and lose money when they do not. Why is this contrary to the good of humanity? Borrowers obviously consider themselves better off for taking out a loan, otherwise they wouldn't apply for one. So if the lender is happy and the borrower is happy, why would Allah be unhappy?

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June 24, 2011, 09:53:03 PM
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What is interest if not a risk premium? Lenders profit when they price the risk of loan repayment correctly and lose money when they do not. Why is this contrary to the good of humanity? Borrowers obviously consider themselves better off for taking out a loan, otherwise they wouldn't apply for one. So if the lender is happy and the borrower is happy, why would Allah be unhappy?

While your question was addressed towards senbonzakura, i feel competent enough to answer it as someone who has studied all of the 3 religions that build on the same idea. (before you read further keep in mind i consider myself a free-market anarchist, not a anarcho-capitalist there's a big difference i shall not go into now).

The problem that those 3 religions is trying to solve is human greed. Under that philosophy it does rightly condemn interest, for the reason that interest places the "haves" infront of the "have nots". If you read the books of ANY of the prophets (including Jesus who is by Muslims considered one of the greatest prophets) the points is to equalize humanity towards singularity and the best way to do that is of course. To tell the haves to share rather than accumulate more wealth. From a humanitarian-philosophical perspective this makes perfect sense, from a capitalist perspective it doesn't (that's because capitalism leads to greed which is incompatible with any of the 3 religions).

My bottom line on this issue is this, if you want a monetary singularity (For which bitcoin has a great potential) you don't want debt based banking, what you want instead is investment based banking. Investemnts makes everyone enjoy the fruits of speculation, debt on the other hand only allows the lenders to enjoy the fruits (because they set the premium).

For the record, i'm not a religious person, i'm trying to be a spirtually good person but i'm religiously opposed to religions (with that said i have full respect for both relgious as well as atheist individuals).


senbonzakura
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June 24, 2011, 10:01:34 PM
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""how will you compensate for loans that default ? If you don't charge anything for lending out money your net result will be negative.""

The borrower only needs to pay back the amount owed to the lender, but the borrower can choose to pay the lender a small amount of money to serve as a gratuity. Its just an idea for the islamic bank, we wouldn't give away like 20 btc or 100 btc , small amounts less than 10 say 2 btc or 5 btc. These interest free loans is there to attract customers and also give back something to the bitcoin community.

""how will you compensate for loans that default ?""

I was thinking maybe at first when the bank is new and growing, you must be a member of this forum and have at least 100 or 200 posts (or ebay feedback?) and be on the good list. So at first maybe give away a total of 20 btc -> 2 btc to each customer. They would pay back after 1, 2 or 4 weeks. Once the btc is paid back, it will be available again to other customers to use. To compensate , we could have ads on the website which would help, if customers visit the site for loans, they see/click ads, which would mean revenue. Hopefully they wont default, revenue from other services/sources will be profit direct to the share holders as dividends.

Again all this needs to be discussed further and its not concrete.

""and i do know that todays modern "Islamic Banks" (are not Islamic at all) those banks "resell properties at a premium for longerterm periodic payments" making it equal to usury (but on paper they can say "hey we're 100% Sharia we don't charge interest!")""

yes, islamic banking is recent/new, most muslim countries have conventional interest-based banks, the above 'could' be considered unislamic. Many islamic banks say they are 100% shariah but they aren't. In my case the bank would offer 0% fee 0% interest on loans. They probably are 90% shariah based, that is they dont deal in pork/alcohol etc.. but other products/services such as the above COULD be deemed unislamic.

""But it gets complicated, you plan to offer this service to anyone ? (some anonymous person can request an investment in a project, commerical or consumer) ? I think this seems like a very risky business. How will you deal with reducing fraud/abuse ?""

It was just a suggestion i put forward and needs to looked upon further. As I said earlier , be established in the forum, 300+ posts? show us the business plan / project and how much btc you willing to put in, then IBB (islamic bank of bitcoin) will decide if the project has potential and invest accordingly.


senbonzakura
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June 24, 2011, 10:14:21 PM
 #12


I cannot start a wine business and sell wine/alcohol to non-muslims while i am not consuming it myself (according to shariah law).

So Muslim clerks at convenience stores and bodegas all over the U.S. are in violation of Sharia?

What is interest if not a risk premium? Lenders profit when they price the risk of loan repayment correctly and lose money when they do not. Why is this contrary to the good of humanity? Borrowers obviously consider themselves better off for taking out a loan, otherwise they wouldn't apply for one. So if the lender is happy and the borrower is happy, why would Allah be unhappy?

If you work at a place such as a convenience store which sells alcohol, then its ok, because you dont own the shop and your not selling the alcohol the shop is. Ofcourse then you could say the profits from sale of alcohol would go towards your salary, if you feel uncomfortable and you are religious then you could work somewhere else, if staying because you need the job then in my opinion its ok. If you own the shop and you sell alcohol then yes you are in violation of shariah.

Muslim follow the laws in the quran. Allah would be unhappy with us if we dont follow the laws he gave us. Even if both parties are fine and happy with the interest on loan, god would be angry/punish you for violating his laws. Grin
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June 24, 2011, 10:21:25 PM
 #13

This appears to be a rationalization for a practice that violates the spirit, if not the letter of the command against usury in the Koran.  Christians did this for centuries before re-defining usury (which is also a sin in Christianity and Judaism) as "excessive" interest rather than any interest.   

What would you expect from a more than 1000 years book? Rules adapted to the current society? That's why you either "interpret the book" at your convenience (most christians do that) or you build a workaround which is purely artificial (like the muslim banking).

Blog posts about Bitcoin - 1KdRBbhjo72CqKTrFsQed6s9NMrvwvrUkq
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June 25, 2011, 02:41:35 AM
 #14

Sharing in the profits (and loss) would certainly demand responsible banking.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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June 25, 2011, 05:45:51 AM
 #15

I pledge 2 BTC if its implemented in right spirit

More will come as the idea progresses

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June 25, 2011, 06:18:04 AM
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indeed but also lend to people of other faiths, after all its 0% interest free loan, who would refuse? Tongue

Trust me, some will refuse a 0% interest loan.

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=4946.msg79764#msg79764
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June 25, 2011, 08:23:13 PM
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trentzb:- It seems that some think its a scam or a trap, if you offer 0% interest loan. from what i understood from that link, some rather have a loan at interest than no interest at all? am i correct ?


Yea, that is what it seems like. I suppose there is only a certain select few who would get the reason for such a loan (lend). Folks that don't understand the principles behind such seem to think there is a catch. I felt it would have been a waste of my time to try and convince the borrower otherwise so I didn't bother.
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June 25, 2011, 09:15:43 PM
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By the way would you be willing to invest or buy shares in this project/bank?

Yes, I would invest/buy shares, not interested in operating it, however I have a condition. I would want to get to know and feel comfortable with the operator of the project pretty well. If it was yourself then I would not hesitate to invest. If someone else comes along that would operate it I would need to get a good feel for their principles and background before investing.

So tentatively/initially I would invest ~10 BTC but it would be contingent on who is the operator and whether I feel comfortable with the operator. You could list it as a conditional pledge if you wish.
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June 25, 2011, 09:59:03 PM
 #19

Watching this thread. Will chime in when I've read more into islamic finance. Sounds great though.
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June 25, 2011, 11:02:01 PM
 #20

Good idea I am interested in Bitcoin banking
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