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Mr.V
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May 28, 2013, 12:39:37 AM |
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what mama dont know wont hurt her..
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BTC:1NwEE7C2hVLSNGwSrFvsYgTrKddCvfhRwY
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MSantori
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May 28, 2013, 12:46:53 AM
Last edit: May 28, 2013, 04:03:16 AM by MSantori |
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Viceroy, thanks for the invite to this thread. It seems like Nova has it nailed down here.
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Marco Santori is a lawyer, but not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice. If you do have specific questions, though, please don't hesitate to PM me. We've learned this forum isn't 100% secure, so you might prefer to email me. Maybe I can help! Depending upon your jurisdiction, this post might be construed as attorney advertising, so: attorney advertising  |
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Viceroy (OP)
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May 28, 2013, 12:52:36 AM |
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Excellent. Glad you came, thanks!
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sublime5447
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
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May 28, 2013, 03:59:08 AM |
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I didnt read the whole thing but It really doesn't matter.... the govenment isnt going to come after individuals selling and trading coins and if they do it is because their is serious money changing hands..as long as the government gets paid they are good, just pay your taxes. These guidelines are for institutions doing millions of dollars of revenue... Do you really think the government is gonna track you down and throw you in jail for borrowing or trading or selling coins between a bunch of nerds online.. look just buy and sell and use coins get people using them.. grow it big enough and it cant be stopped...dont worry about the government!
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TheGovernedSelf
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Activity: 102
Merit: 10
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May 28, 2013, 05:14:09 AM |
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You can't do that. The law was signed by Obabma it's true, but there are no rules yet that allow ANYBODY to actually crowdsource funding. The SEC has dragged their feet on the matter and the states have said nothing. Like most securities laws there are two completely different sets of rules (fed and state) and there is no state who allows crowdsourced funding... even the fed does not allow it *yet*. So if the government doesn't explicitly condone the behavior through legislation, then it is assumed to be illegal? Does this sound like the ideology of a free country?because it is meets the definition of a commodity It is data and code. Nothing more. There are already rules in place to prevent the selling of fake securities. It is called "fraud". |
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ewitte
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Activity: 98
Merit: 10
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May 29, 2013, 01:42:03 PM |
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I can give a rats ^%#^& about anything coming from an administration that traffics firearms to drug dealers and slaps the hands of major banks (HSBC) laundering money for the same thing.
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Donations
BTC - 13Lgy6fb4d3nSYEf2nkgBgyBkkhPw8zkPd
LTC - LegzRwyc2Xhu8cqvaW2jwRrqSnhyaYU6gZ
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twobits
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May 29, 2013, 02:30:45 PM |
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Luckily this law was changed April 5th.
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tinus42
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May 29, 2013, 02:38:56 PM |
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Other countries also have securities laws which may be as complicated as the American laws and also apply internationally. So is it not better to make a subsection about security legislation in general?
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prophetx
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he who has the gold makes the rules
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May 30, 2013, 01:11:40 AM |
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what mama dont know wont hurt her..
Damn straight |
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prophetx
Legendary
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Activity: 1666
Merit: 1010
he who has the gold makes the rules
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May 30, 2013, 01:13:20 AM |
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I dont get it... so its illegal for a private citizen to give a loan to a business?
Lmao I have NEVER heard of anyone getting caught for that.
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Viceroy (OP)
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May 30, 2013, 01:30:49 AM |
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It's not the individual investor who usually gets caught, it's the guy pitching. It is illegal to ask the public for funding with an unregistered offering. This law is designed to protect the individual from unscrupulous con men.
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tytus
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May 31, 2013, 10:55:19 PM |
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We want to run a BTC mine.
- mining without conversion to USD does not require FinCEN registration (right?)
- we will pay the revenues from mining to people just like a dividend ... does this require registration as MSB ? (this would mean that all companies that pay out dividends must register as MSB).
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SEC agent
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Activity: 98
Merit: 10
America, land of the free
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May 31, 2013, 10:58:58 PM |
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I can accept bitcoins for my restaurant let's say, and currently am not in violation of any laws, correct?
As long as you pay your taxes, yes. I would also avoid using one of the unlicensed exchanges to cash back into USD because of their non-compliance with various laws and regulations. |
"It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a Free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defense of it." -George Washington
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Viceroy (OP)
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June 01, 2013, 02:57:17 PM |
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I would also avoid using one of the unlicensed exchanges to cash back into USD because of their non-compliance with various laws and regulations.
Can you name such exchanges? Are there ANY exchanges that are licensed or is there any known legal way to convert btc to usd? A miner can't even sell btc to his best friend for "cash" can he? I would think you'd have no problems selling things like amazon gift cards or home depot gift cards but cash in the mail seems sketchy, right? and wires? |
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ewitte
Member
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Activity: 98
Merit: 10
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June 10, 2013, 07:20:54 PM |
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It's not the individual investor who usually gets caught, it's the guy pitching. It is illegal to ask the public for funding with an unregistered offering. This law is designed to protect the individual from unscrupulous con men.
Quite the opposite its created to steal our money and give it to the con men in office. |
Donations
BTC - 13Lgy6fb4d3nSYEf2nkgBgyBkkhPw8zkPd
LTC - LegzRwyc2Xhu8cqvaW2jwRrqSnhyaYU6gZ
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btceic
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June 29, 2013, 01:36:29 PM |
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I would also avoid using one of the unlicensed exchanges to cash back into USD because of their non-compliance with various laws and regulations.
Can you name such exchanges? Are there ANY exchanges that are licensed or is there any known legal way to convert btc to usd? A miner can't even sell btc to his best friend for "cash" can he? I would think you'd have no problems selling things like amazon gift cards or home depot gift cards but cash in the mail seems sketchy, right? and wires? You can with coinbase edit: Coinbase is registered as an MSB My questions: As a user do we have anything to worry about? As a miner do we have anything to worry about? Things that I do with bitcoin: buy bitcoin, buy stuff with bitcoin, mine bitcoin I purchased 10 "shares" of a group buy for KnC miners, they went "public" with an IPO on bitfunder, I was issued 1000 shares of the group buy. Are any of these activities illegal? |
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Viceroy (OP)
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June 29, 2013, 05:00:29 PM |
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btceic you should look through this section of the forums. There is great advice in this "legal" section that answers the kind of question you are asking. Just click here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=74.0If you can't find what you need you may want to start a new thread. |
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NewLiberty
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Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
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July 10, 2013, 12:39:55 AM |
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No, not really. Commodities are not securities. The regulatory authority is different as well, securities are SEC regulated, commodities (futures contracts) are regulated by CFTC. Commodities are not regulated in this way, just the contracts on them. You can buy wheat, you can buy gold, you can buy the actual stuff. The SEC and CFTC care about the paper, not so much the actual stuff unless it fits the structure of a futures contract. |
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Viceroy (OP)
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July 10, 2013, 04:49:45 AM |
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Absolutely, because it may be a commodity you need to be careful writing contracts around it. Offering to pay someone 1.1 btc for a 1 btc loan at some future date might be a problem in many states.
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NewLiberty
Legendary
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Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
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July 10, 2013, 06:02:37 AM |
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Absolutely, because it may be a commodity you need to be careful writing contracts around it. Offering to pay someone 1.1 btc for a 1 btc loan at some future date might be a problem in many states.
CFTC and SEC are federal US, not state. Federal law is mostly silent on small lending. An exception being the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protect Act of 2010 which created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, but there's not much to it, mostly it is focused on helping consumers understand credit terms. http://www.consumerfinance.gov/strategic-plan/#overviewState lending rules are a different matter entirely but generally if you are incorporated in a state, you get the rules of that state nationally. Lending a commodity is generally not an issue, unless you are a large bank expecting to be governed by BASEL III and have reserve requirements. |
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Poll
