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Author Topic: Governments in a realistic light.  (Read 8192 times)
smellyBobby
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June 24, 2011, 05:34:24 AM
 #1



"A further examination of the 39-year period extending from the end of the Nixon administration until 2008 shows the Swedish economy, known for its high taxes and heavy regulation, growing at a significantly higher rate than the US."



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/22/stocks-socialized-us-countries-reagan_n_882270.html





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benjamindees
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June 24, 2011, 06:22:41 AM
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It's not surprising that Nixon's removal of gold backing from US dollars harmed our economy.  But replacing it with a social service economy backed by government force is not really "growth".

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smellyBobby
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June 24, 2011, 06:26:42 AM
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Is that your reason for describing the difference in share-market rates of growth?

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June 24, 2011, 06:27:27 AM
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"A further examination of the 39-year period extending from the end of the Nixon administration until 2008 shows the Swedish economy, known for its high taxes and heavy regulation, growing at a significantly higher rate than the US."



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/22/stocks-socialized-us-countries-reagan_n_882270.html





They have a good Justice Dragon.

And the Swedish haven't been fighting multiple wars half-way across the world since Nixon administration.  And the Swedish are relatively cultural homogeneous.  SO what?

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
smellyBobby
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June 24, 2011, 06:31:44 AM
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Because the Swedish aren't stupid.

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June 24, 2011, 06:38:56 AM
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Because the Swedish aren't stupid.

Non sequitur.

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
smellyBobby
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June 24, 2011, 06:43:09 AM
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And the Swedish haven't been fighting multiple wars half-way across the world since Nixon administration.  And the Swedish are relatively cultural homogeneous.  SO what?

ignoratio elenchi

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em3rgentOrdr
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June 24, 2011, 06:46:02 AM
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And the Swedish haven't been fighting multiple wars half-way across the world since Nixon administration.  And the Swedish are relatively cultural homogeneous.  SO what?

ignoratio elenchi

Wrong.  It's entirely relevant, among other issues not mentioned.  Basically the Swedish economy hasn't been drained by the massive costs of war.

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
smellyBobby
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June 24, 2011, 06:49:31 AM
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The onus of proof is upon you to show that war is the reason why the U.S. stock-market has under-performed.

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June 24, 2011, 06:54:53 AM
 #10

The onus of proof is upon you to show that war is the reason why the U.S. stock-market has under-performed.

No.  Neither this nor your original thesis can be proven.

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
smellyBobby
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June 24, 2011, 07:02:39 AM
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So you are saying there is a causality between government and stock-market returns?

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June 24, 2011, 07:07:28 AM
 #12

So you are saying there is a causality between government and stock-market returns?

I have no idea where this is going.  Seems like you are going in circles.  I must, reluctantly, assume you are a troll at this point.

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
benjamindees
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June 24, 2011, 11:31:43 AM
 #13

Is that your reason for describing the difference in share-market rates of growth?

Okay now that I've read the article I'm not sure what this is trying to prove.  Stock price is based on thousands of factors most of which have nothing to do with real economic growth.

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smellyBobby
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June 24, 2011, 12:40:52 PM
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So your saying that the growth of a company's value is in no way related to the economic growth of a country? Did I misunderstand?

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AyeYo
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June 24, 2011, 01:11:03 PM
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This isn't news to anyone that doesn't have their head up their ass (so it'll be news to a lot of people on this board). Properly, centrally planned economies have been outpacing the growth of more "capitalist" economies like the US for... ever.


Interesting note:  These wars all over the world that the US is involved in, those ARE results of the capitalist economy.  The big, greedy defense contractors are big and greedy and want more money, so they set their cronies up in government positions and off to war we go.

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LastBattle
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June 24, 2011, 01:47:35 PM
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"A further examination of the 39-year period extending from the end of the Nixon administration until 2008 shows the Swedish economy, known for its high taxes and heavy regulation, growing at a significantly higher rate than the US."



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/22/stocks-socialized-us-countries-reagan_n_882270.html





They have a good Justice Dragon.

Yeah, Sweden.
Quote
Quote
In truth, the Swedish economy's best years are long gone. Between 1870 and 1950, average growth in Swedish GDP and productivity was, by some measures, the fastest in the world. In 1970 Sweden was the fourth-richest member of the OECD club of industrial countries. But for most of the past 50 years the story has been one of relative decline, including a deep recession in the early 1990s (see chart 1). By 1998 Sweden had fallen to 16th in the OECD rankings. It has since climbed back a bit, but the relatively strong growth of the past decade should be seen mainly as a rebound from the 1990s trough.
Quote
Set against this are two big weaknesses. The worst is employment. Par Nuder, the finance minister, makes much of Sweden's having the highest employment rate in the European Union after Denmark, at just over 70%. The official unemployment rate is 6%. But Sweden is a world champion at massaging its jobless figures, which exclude those in government make-work programmes, those forced into early retirement and students who would prefer to be working. Sweden's suspiciously large number of workers on long-term sick leave are counted as working, and included in the employment rate (sickness benefits account for 16% of public spending). Absenteeism is common.

Quote
Earlier this year the McKinsey Global Institute, a think-tank, studied Sweden's labour market. It found that the rate of employment among working-age people had declined in the past decade. Indeed, Magnus Henrekson of the Research Institute of Industrial Economics says that Sweden has created almost no net private-sector jobs since 1950* (see chart 2). Youth unemployment is among the highest in Europe. The McKinsey boffins conclude that the “true” unemployment rate is around 15-17%, which puts Sweden among the worst job-fillers in the EU. It translates into more than 1m people without work.
Quote
But the biggest problem for immigrants, as for young Swedes, is work. A study of comparable Somali groups in Sweden and Minnesota found that less than a third of working-age Somalis in Sweden had jobs, half the share in Minnesota.

In other words, Sweden has had no actual growth in the private sector since 1950 and is living off of past prosperity caused by no wars and low government spending.

Yeah, great example of success.

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dannickherpderp
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June 24, 2011, 08:02:44 PM
 #17

This isn't news to anyone that doesn't have their head up their ass (so it'll be news to a lot of people on this board). Properly, centrally planned economies have been outpacing the growth of more "capitalist" economies like the US for... ever.


Interesting note:  These wars all over the world that the US is involved in, those ARE results of the capitalist economy.  The big, greedy defense contractors are big and greedy and want more money, so they set their cronies up in government positions and off to war we go.

no.

Defense companies make a product, same as anybody else.  They advertise to those who want to buy it, and convince them to hand over money.  The bad guy here is not the defense contractor, but the government because the government is unique as a customer in that it can take money by force or make it at will.  Nobody else can do that.

The only way to prevent this pattern is to completely change human nature (NOT GONNA HAPPEN) or strip the government of its power (more likely)
AyeYo
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June 24, 2011, 08:16:04 PM
 #18

This isn't news to anyone that doesn't have their head up their ass (so it'll be news to a lot of people on this board). Properly, centrally planned economies have been outpacing the growth of more "capitalist" economies like the US for... ever.


Interesting note:  These wars all over the world that the US is involved in, those ARE results of the capitalist economy.  The big, greedy defense contractors are big and greedy and want more money, so they set their cronies up in government positions and off to war we go.

no.

Defense companies make a product, same as anybody else.  They advertise to those who want to buy it, and convince them to hand over money.  The bad guy here is not the defense contractor, but the government because the government is unique as a customer in that it can take money by force or make it at will.  Nobody else can do that.

The only way to prevent this pattern is to completely change human nature (NOT GONNA HAPPEN) or strip the government of its power (more likely)

LOLOLOL

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GideonGono
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June 24, 2011, 08:20:20 PM
 #19

This isn't news to anyone that doesn't have their head up their ass (so it'll be news to a lot of people on this board). Properly, centrally planned economies have been outpacing the growth of more "capitalist" economies like the US for... ever.


Interesting note:  These wars all over the world that the US is involved in, those ARE results of the capitalist economy.  The big, greedy defense contractors are big and greedy and want more money, so they set their cronies up in government positions and off to war we go.

Don't you think it's ironic that a staunch supporter of central planning is supporting a currency that aims to dislodge central planning?

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June 24, 2011, 08:21:13 PM
 #20


And the Swedish haven't been fighting multiple wars half-way across the world since Nixon administration.  And the Swedish are relatively cultural homogeneous.  SO what?

ignoratio elenchi

I like this. I think I'm going to start responding to others' posts with nothing more than the name of the logical fallacy they are committing. Let's all do this - let's make this the next big meme and pound some logic through those thick skulls out there... WHO'S WITH ME?!?!

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