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Author Topic: Selling an apartment in Milan (Italy) for bitcoins, 100% legit!  (Read 2027 times)
newbit85
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September 16, 2017, 09:38:51 PM
 #1

Italy is one of the first countries in Europe where you can actually trade a house for bitcoins, our tax revenue service actually said that it's legal to use bitcoin in a deed for a house as the means of payment.

I am selling a house in Milan, Italy, 45 square meters, there is a tenant with a regular contract up to December 2019, the revenue you'll get from his rent is 600euros per month. The house is in very good conditions and it's a good investment, the price is around 60 bitcoins.

12 October 2017 EDIT:  I'm having the house re-evaluated and it looks it lost value, I bought it well before the 2012 recessiona and the market still hasn't fully recovered from that, I will update you on the price by editing this post.

22nd October 2017 EDIT: I had the house re-evaluated by agents and my asking price is now 153,000.00 euros, at the current rate of 4900 EUROS per btc that means approx 31 btc.


Buying this house is gonna be very simple, thanks to the fact that we have formal regulations form our internal revenue system (Agenzia delle entrate) stating that bitcoin is indeed a currency and can be used in deed or any contract for that matter, this means you are gonna be protected by italian laws exactly as if you were paying with fiat, this is gonna be your property, fair and square, to the name of whoever comes with me in front of the notary (italian laws require a notary to be present for all the paperwork, they are expensive! like 5.000/15.000 euros, I know, it's a ripoff just for some paperwork, but it's our law) gets ID by him and while we're there sends the bitcoins to my wallet, we'll wait for confirmations and as soon as they arrive I'll sign the deed (I can't say no once you send them or the notary will get me arrested and the house would still be transferred to you, that's the protection you'll get, amongst other things).

the reason for me to wanting to sell the house like this is that I believe in bitcoin and if I was to sell the house in fiat and then exchange it for bitcoins, which was my original plan, I would loose a ton of value, both operations are very costly in terms of fees.

so if anybody is interested in the idea please contact me for further details.

these are some links to news and regulations about bitcoins in italy, as a rule of thumb any nationality that we have a bilateral agreement with can come over and buy and own a house, please feel free to contact me stating what's the nationality of the buyer and I can provide more information.

Wired magazine:
https://www.wired.it/economia/finanza/2017/04/05/prima-casa-bitcoin/

The actual regulation form the relevant agency website:
http://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/wps/file/nsilib/nsi/documentazione/normativa+e+prassi/risoluzioni/archivio+risoluzioni/risoluzioni+2016/settembre+2016+risoluzioni/risoluzione+n.+72+del+02+settembre+2016/RISOLUZIONE+N.+72+DEL+02+SETTEMBRE+2016E.pdf

Ansa (like reuters):
http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/tecnologia/hitech/2017/04/04/in-italia-la-casa-si-paga-in-bitcoin_6a5a9395-8871-4b85-91c5-b2d390ba6e76.html

Edit: these are some picture of the house, its located near Piazzale Loreto in Milan, Italy.

it's one bedroom, one openspace with the living room and the kitchen, a walkway and the bathroom.
it's near piazzale loreto, via padova/via pasteur, 5fht floor, the apartment is in a central location and in very good conditions, partly furnished (the library in the living room, the kitchen table and the bed and wardrobe all belong to the house, the current pictures show the belongings of the tennant as well, it's very easy to rent this place to a couple or a single worker because it's well served and not so expensive (600-700eur per month, i'm currently renting at 600, current tennant has a contract till the end of 2019)

Full Imgur gallery https://imgur.com/a/gjcx4

https://i.imgur.com/hr07edi.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hFdL9wk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HMUgioZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/rsP5Cog.jpg

Google maps approximate location (its not that precise address, that is just a random pick on th same road within couple of hundreds meter, I will provide the precise location to interested buyers that contact me in private):

https://www.google.it/maps/place/Via+Padova,+20,+Milano+MI/@45.4878639,9.2182585,18z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x4786c6e6b175bfff:0xd4e45e2c2c4367a2!8m2!3d45.4876815!4d9.2191758?dcr=0
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September 17, 2017, 12:47:40 AM
 #2

All you did above was discuss 90% bitcoin and 10% property. You didn't bother describing the house in greater detail. Neither have you shown pictures of it's exterior and interior, it's location in Milan, design, and what's in it (how many bedrooms, toilets etc). You are selling it for about $220,000 and any potential buyer would reasonably expect more information beyond "good condition.. 45 sqm... a good investment".

My advice is to edit your post above and include pictures of the house and more information about the property. Pictures are important for real estate offers. If you want to attract potential buyers, you need to describe what you are selling in much more detail than the bitcoin part.

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September 17, 2017, 03:27:57 AM
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All you did above was discuss 90% bitcoin and 10% property. You didn't bother describing the house in greater detail. Neither have you shown pictures of it's exterior and interior, it's location in Milan, design, and what's in it (how many bedrooms, toilets etc). You are selling it for about $220,000 and any potential buyer would reasonably expect more information beyond "good condition.. 45 sqm... a good investment".

My advice is to edit your post above and include pictures of the house and more information about the property. Pictures are important for real estate offers. If you want to attract potential buyers, you need to describe what you are selling in much more detail than the bitcoin part.

This is true. The seller can also post on a Classified Ads site or a Property Listing site and add more descriptions and photos. Then put the link here for us to view.
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September 17, 2017, 03:30:41 AM
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Do you have a real estate ad up? Pictures? Do you know of a lawyer that is familiar with out of the country purchasers?














 

 

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mbbtc01
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September 17, 2017, 04:50:22 AM
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sell  your house tomorrow then it worth say 1 million sell get bitcoins but what would happen if the price crashed and you could be left with a big lose I would not risk something lie that but good luck with you sale maybe it might become  the norm. 

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September 17, 2017, 04:53:39 AM
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Do you have a real estate ad up? Pictures? Do you know of a lawyer that is familiar with out of the country purchasers?

Yes it would be much more secure and guranted. But maybe its better to see the picture of the house. Its my dream to have house in the foriegn country but I can't afford it its just a dream. But we dont know I have a friends out there wants to buy house then I can suggest to them.

newbit85
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September 17, 2017, 09:02:34 AM
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All you did above was discuss 90% bitcoin and 10% property. You didn't bother describing the house in greater detail. Neither have you shown pictures of it's exterior and interior, it's location in Milan, design, and what's in it (how many bedrooms, toilets etc). You are selling it for about $220,000 and any potential buyer would reasonably expect more information beyond "good condition.. 45 sqm... a good investment".

My advice is to edit your post above and include pictures of the house and more information about the property. Pictures are important for real estate offers. If you want to attract potential buyers, you need to describe what you are selling in much more detail than the bitcoin part.

I will provide pictures within a couple of days, I live about 100k from there and I will create a listing on a property site and link it back here.

I wanted to make the listing explaining first that it is legal in italy to do the transaction in bitcoins, afaik not many places in the world allow for that so I got excited and had to post it.
 Grin Grin

I listed very basic information so that you guys could understand the cost per square meter and "revenue".
newbit85
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September 17, 2017, 09:25:46 AM
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Do you know of a lawyer that is familiar with out of the country purchasers?

yes I do, I can also help any foreigner getting their taxes right.

I worked for about 10years as a freight forwarder, loss adjuster and sales manager for an international distributor, hence I do know companies and people that could provide professional support for this transaction, let me keep stressing tho that Italy has entirely legalized the use of bitcoins as currencies, we have proper legislation about that, so you will receive all the protection that the italian law has to offer (in line with EU standards).

As I said as a rule of thumb any nationality that Italy has a bilateral agreement with can come over and buy and own a house 100% legit, this include USA and Russia and China.
You will be ID (by the notary) and I have to carry out some basic checks about your ID, I have to make sure that you're not a war criminal, a known criminal or a known scammer, after I carry out my due diligence we're set to go and the deed can be signed.

Afterward, once you are the owner of the house, you're gonna have to pay property taxes on it, when it comes to rent you're gonna have to pay taxes as well, and I can help you with that as well ( I'll introduce you to my tax consultant).
newbit85
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September 17, 2017, 09:33:06 AM
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sell  your house tomorrow then it worth say 1 million sell get bitcoins but what would happen if the price crashed and you could be left with a big lose I would not risk something lie that but good luck with you sale maybe it might become  the norm. 

I see an opportunity here because Italy has a very mature property market (it is not a bubble) and is amongst the first countries to regulate the sale of real estate with bitcoins, hence I might be able to attract lots of foreign investors.

This is not my home, it's a second house I own and used as an extra source of income, I think it's time to risk the asset and move it to btc, I might be wrong, but I'm willing to take the risk.
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September 18, 2017, 05:15:34 AM
 #10

Noted the thread down for once the photos are up. Smiley

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newbit85
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September 18, 2017, 09:39:00 PM
 #11

it's gonna take a week or so, im swamped at work right now.
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September 20, 2017, 02:26:02 PM
 #12

wow, intersting but, anybody who is interested in such deal can contact me after request of the location (address) from the seller.

I live in rome so, i don't mind going to milan which is about an hour, 45 mins by freccia rosa to view/inspect the external part and possibly find outone of more info's from the agency within these location perhap's they might of the house on sale

I think this will be ok before jumping in or if, at all you plan to pay a visit to this location:o Shocked


Thanks

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September 21, 2017, 02:47:40 PM
 #13

First of all 45 square meters house is very small, plus price is high - around 230 000 USD for so small house. May be it is flat, not house ? And if there is tenant inside, then you sale real estate for profit, not for living. Important info is also, where house is located, Milan is large city, so may be it is outside city, then price can be lower.
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September 21, 2017, 11:49:03 PM
 #14

Why not sell it when the tenant has moved out?
Or you want to sell now so you can get Bitcoins

newbit85
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September 22, 2017, 05:33:14 PM
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First of all 45 square meters house is very small, plus price is high - around 230 000 USD for so small house. May be it is flat, not house ?

Hi yes its a flat, I misused the english term, my bad, sorry.

And if there is tenant inside, then you sale real estate for profit, not for living.

sorry I don't get what you mean here.

Important info is also, where house is located, Milan is large city, so may be it is outside city, then price can be lower.

it's in the area of Loreto-Pasteur, first ring around the cbd, residential zone.
it's a flat in an area that can easily be rented to average workers, currently renting it @600 euros per month.

I will list the house on a property website and you will be able to look at it properly with all relevant details, probably gonna take another week or so, sorry I'm swamped and I need to go there to take some good recent pictures.
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September 23, 2017, 08:53:59 AM
 #16

Will this post become an iconic post like what Laszlo Hanyecz has done in 2010?
Will be very interesting to know  Grin

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September 24, 2017, 07:29:06 AM
 #17

Can you post any pictures of the house? Maybe you can block off the address or something if you'd like to be safe.

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September 24, 2017, 05:08:23 PM
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Good initiative, the more people who sell with bitcoin, the more BTC is know in the world. Thumbs up!!
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October 11, 2017, 03:30:52 PM
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Great. Good luck with your sell
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October 11, 2017, 05:32:52 PM
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Good to see that there are more uses of bitcoin rather than just storing and trading. If btc can be used for the buying/selling goods and services means its the real use of the btc and cypto currencies. Will watch this thread and wishes you success for selling the house for btc and do let us know once the deal is finalized.

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