This sums it up well.

[myrkul]

I disagree on both counts.  And therefore, there isn't much left to debate.  You seem to have taken a position that is ideological/philosophical in nature.  I have taken one that is based in the realities of the world we live in.

You're really saying that:
a) roads and other infrastructure, the protection of private property, and the other various benefits that a government provides to it's citizens could not be voluntarily funded, and;
b) that robbery is moral if I have a jacket that says IRS?

[FinShaggy]

Taxes may be wrong but they are constitutional. Sorry guys, taxes may be evil, but they are libertarian. Unless that libertarian is also a secessionist.

[myrkul]

Wow, I just did a calculation and if you work 40 hours a week for 4 weeks @ $8/hr you only get $1,200.

And that's before taxes. And the other state and federal withholdings.

To say nothing of the 5-10% of your money that gets sucked away every time you buy something (unless you live in New Hampshire)

But that's fine, because they can apply for welfare and get free food, even cigarettes in some states

You don't get it, do you? It's not free. It's paid for by that very money that was stolen from them!

No YOU don't get it. If we paid them just A LITTLE MORE, they 1. Wouldn't need it 2. Wouldn't qualify

Or, maybe just stopped robbing them of 20-30% of their pay?

[FinShaggy]

Wow, I just did a calculation and if you work 40 hours a week for 4 weeks @ $8/hr you only get $1,200.

And that's before taxes. And the other state and federal withholdings.

To say nothing of the 5-10% of your money that gets sucked away every time you buy something (unless you live in New Hampshire)

But that's fine, because they can apply for welfare and get free food, even cigarettes in some states

You don't get it, do you? It's not free. It's paid for by that very money that was stolen from them!

No YOU don't get it. If we paid them just A LITTLE MORE, they 1. Wouldn't need it 2. Wouldn't qualify

Or, maybe just stopped robbing them of 20-30% of their pay?

20-30% WTF. 1. That's not how much they take 2. Regular people shouldn't have to live on $1200 a month, taxed or not

[FinShaggy]

The Sixteenth Amendment (Amendment XVI) to the United States Constitution allows the Congress to levy an income tax without apportioning it among the states or basing it on Census results.

[myrkul]

Taxes may be wrong but they are constitutional. Sorry guys, taxes may be evil, but they are libertarian. Unless that libertarian is also a secessionist.

Interestingly enough, welfare is not constitutional.

And considering the fact that the core tenet of libertarianism is the non-aggression principle, to the extent that the libertarian holds to his principles, that libertarian is an anarchist.

20-30% WTF. 1. That's not how much they take 2. Regular people shouldn't have to live on $1200 a month, taxed or not

You're right, it's usually much more. That was a conservative estimate.

[FinShaggy]

20-30% WTF. 1. That's not how much they take 2. Regular people shouldn't have to live on $1200 a month, taxed or not

You're right, it's usually much more. That was a conservative estimate.

LOL LOL
So you think 40%+ gets taken from checks. Where the fuck do you live?

[FinShaggy]

Interestingly enough, welfare is not constitutional.

WE THE PEOPLE of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

[FinShaggy]

Again,
If you don't like the way things are, make a charity so people never even qualify for welfare.

[myrkul]

So you think 40%+ gets taken from checks. Where the fuck do you live?

Psst. It's not just from payroll. There's a lot of other, "hidden" taxes. Sales tax is just one of those.

Again,
If you don't like the way things are, make a charity so people never even qualify for welfare.

No thanks, I prefer to strike the root of evil, rather than hack away at the branches.

And just because it says "promote the general welfare" in the preamble, that does not mean than it anywhere authorizes the government to give handouts.

[YaCoinYeah]

So how many coats the guy has and did he use slave labour?

Slave labor? Slavery is wrong.

Woah, deep, bro.

[FinShaggy]

So you think 40%+ gets taken from checks. Where the fuck do you live?

Psst. It's not just from payroll. There's a lot of other, "hidden" taxes. Sales tax is just one of those.

Lol, you're a sad troll.
It in no way adds up to 40% of your pay.

[FinShaggy]

And just because it says "promote the general welfare" in the preamble, that does not mean than it anywhere authorizes the government to give handouts.

The government doesn't have to, but they have to promote other people doing it... And they do... With taxes. They just do it for you.

[FinShaggy]

What we should worry about is government spending on bombs.

There is a famous old quote:

"It'll be a great day when schools have all the money they need, and the air force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber"

[myrkul]

So you think 40%+ gets taken from checks. Where the fuck do you live?

Psst. It's not just from payroll. There's a lot of other, "hidden" taxes. Sales tax is just one of those.

Lol, you're a sad troll.
It in no way adds up to 40% of your pay.

You're the one in my thread, ragging on me. I don't think that qualifies you to call me a troll.
http://www.nowandfutures.com/taxes.html
Total tax percentage potentially paid by the above average US citizen, 2013 est. - 59.7%

FYI, just the income taxes, total an average of 27.1%.

[FinShaggy]

So you think 40%+ gets taken from checks. Where the fuck do you live?

Psst. It's not just from payroll. There's a lot of other, "hidden" taxes. Sales tax is just one of those.

Lol, you're a sad troll.
It in no way adds up to 40% of your pay.

You're the one in my thread, ragging on me. I don't think that qualifies you to call me a troll.http://www.nowandfutures.com/taxes.html
Total tax percentage potentially paid by the above average US citizen, 2013 est. - 59.7%

You troll the site, it's your bridge. You try to keep people from thinking by trapping them and keeping them from crossing "your bridge" (mainly the politics section).

59.7% in taxes?!?!?!?!?!?!? BULLSHIT (and who the hell is "the above average citizen"?)

[myrkul]

59.7% in taxes?!?!?!?!?!?!? BULLSHIT (and who the hell is "the above average citizen"?)

Read the site. The "above average" citizen is one that qualifies for all of those various taxes. ie, one that pays income taxes, has a corporation, owns land, drives, and qualifies for the "other" 5%.

[Mike Christ]

I still don't get how we're justifying robbery at gunpoint.

[myrkul]

I still don't get how we're justifying robbery at gunpoint.

The usual refrain is "Think of the chiiiiildren!!!"

[FinShaggy]

59.7% in taxes?!?!?!?!?!?!? BULLSHIT (and who the hell is "the above average citizen"?)

Read the site. The "above average" citizen is one that qualifies for all of those various taxes. ie, one that pays income taxes, has a corporation, owns land, drives, and qualifies for the "other" 5%.

I've never met anyone that paid 50%+ in taxes. And my stepdad and dad both own companies and land.