Start Using mBTC as Standard Denomination?

[grau]

Virtually none of the existing finance applications or databases storing currency support a precision more than two decimal digits. All finance applications use three capital letter ISO currency codes (mBTC is 4 and mixed case).

You want to store and process Bitcoin where the other currencies are, then it is a must.

Here again a reasoning in more detail: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220761.msg2326526#msg2326526

MBC or MBT

XBT because X is reserved for supranational in ISO and BT because it got most votes in the community until now. Please stop throwing in new alternatives just for the sake of fun.

[SgtSpike]

I voted Yes, but I should have voted this option:

Switch to XBT. An XBT is 100 satoshi (or 1/1,000,000 BTC). This allows us to have $21,000,000,000,000 units of the base unit of currency, and an exchange rate much less threatening to newcomers.

I like the idea of allowing for more price growth in Bitcoin, and also complying with international standards for having only two decimal places of fractionality.

[Missionary]

I voted Yes, but I should have voted this option:

Switch to XBT. An XBT is 100 satoshi (or 1/1,000,000 BTC). This allows us to have $21,000,000,000,000 units of the base unit of currency, and an exchange rate much less threatening to newcomers.

I like the idea of allowing for more price growth in Bitcoin, and also complying with international standards for having only two decimal places of fractionality.

I like this. XBT should get more attention!

Also, stop with your "funny-dates". YYYY-MM-DD is the ONLY correct way to type dates. STANDARDS!

[mprep]

I think we should wait until Bitcoin raises in value more.

[austonst]

I'd like to point out that while switching to XBT is important, there is no commonly accepted denomination of XBT as compared to what we currently know as BTC. For example, in the thread grau linked to, the original post proposed XBT as a name for mBTC, while grau later posted the more database compliant idea of having XBT be 100 satoshi, or 1 µBTC.

There are really multiple problems here. The first is the issue with BTC being non-compliant with ISO standards. The second is how we refer to very large or very small amounts of bitcoins. A third is that current financial databases have precision to two decimal places, and no more.

grau's proposed change to a standard of 1 XBT = 1 µBTC attempts to solve the first and third of these issues. It is not a solution to the second issue (which is the topic this thread is intended to be about). As one USD would be equivalent to ~7,700 XBT at the current exchange rate, we still have the issue of very large numbers. If XBT are more reasonably talked about in multiples of 1000, a reasonable solution would be to use kXBT, so that 1 USD ≈ 7.7 kXBT. This is just as much of a decimal place shift as BTC -> mBTC. This does not mean 1 XBT = 1 µBTC is a bad idea, but it is not a solution to the issue this thread was started to talk about, and it is not a substitute for the metric system. As such, I see it as a very out of place option in the poll.

Here are my preferred solutions to the three problems. XBT is a great term, and I'd like to see it in use. I do prefer to have BTC-XBT parity (that is, XBT is simply an ISO-compliant name for BTC). This is the simplest solution, gaining ISO compliance without having debates about whether it should be equivalent to mBTC or µBTC. It solves the problem without forcing users to learn a completely new system for representing their bitcoins. For a user who's more out of the loop and less tech-savvy, a simple rename is easier to understand than a rename with a complete re-denomination.

The solution to the second problem is easy: use the metric system. I fully support the use of mBTC and µBTC, or with BTC-XBT parity, mXBT and µXBT. I don't understand the people saying "Most currencies don't use metric, so we shouldn't either". If most places in the US use the imperial system, does that mean we shouldn't switch to metric? I would argue that both the 100-centric currency system and imperial system are inferior to the standard of metric, and that both should switch to it. As for the naming and push for usage, I feel this is something that will happen with time. As long as people are aware that metric is the way to go, people will start using it in discussion just because it's easier to use. A waiter at a restaurant will realize that it's simpler to say "23 millibits" or "23 millibitcoins" than it is to say "point zero two three bitcoins". We will likely have a gradual change from bitcoin to millibitcoin (I've already started to use it where appropriate), with mBTC-dollar parity being the point where just about everyone uses it. Slang, such as millie, gavin, mil, etc, will develop with time, but that's not something we can democratically vote on or enforce. If we start using millibitcoin, slang will come.

The third issue is easily solved in software. There is always an abstraction layer between the data stored in a database and what is presented to users. That is, the denomination stored in the database does not have to be the denomination presented to the user. Financial institutions can store bitcoin count in µBTC (µXBT) so that they have their two decimal place precision, then present it to anyone who wants to reference it as BTC or mBTC (XBT or mXBT). In the unlikely case that each database entry HAS to have only three characters and there is no abstraction layer whatsoever, they could simply add another table to the database to hold the metric multiplier for each currency stored, or even just change the database. There are so many solutions, and it's not something Bitcoin needs to solve. If the future of currency really does lie in a wide variety of cryptocurrencies, all with their own preferred abbreviations and metric prefixes, it may be the burden of the financial institutions to change their software to accept a wider variety of numbers. Just as Bitcoin is making governments realize that their current systems are inadequate for handling decentralized currency, Bitcoin and the currencies that follow will make financial institutions realize that their systems must be changed as well.

[CasinoBit]

It amazes me to an extent just how much people are motivated by such trivial psychological factors.

This much?



Which one is better half banana, quarter banana or 60 bananas?

[SgtSpike]

It amazes me to an extent just how much people are motivated by such trivial psychological factors.

This much?



Which one is better half banana, quarter banana or 60 bananas?

Me too, but it is a very real psychological phenomenon, and far from trivial.  This is a legitimate conversation to have if we want to see mass adoption of Bitcoin.

You know why they have stock splits?  100% because of the psychological barrier of people not wanting to invest in stock valued much higher per share than comparable stocks in the same industry.

Bitcoin needs a stock split.  It is far too overvalued per unit for the average person to feel good about investing in it.

[Birdy]

It amazes me to an extent just how much people are motivated by such trivial psychological factors.

Yes, it's amazing(/scary) how much effect it has.

[Razick]

I voted Yes, but I should have voted this option:

Switch to XBT. An XBT is 100 satoshi (or 1/1,000,000 BTC). This allows us to have $21,000,000,000,000 units of the base unit of currency, and an exchange rate much less threatening to newcomers.

I like the idea of allowing for more price growth in Bitcoin, and also complying with international standards for having only two decimal places of fractionality.

I like this. XBT should get more attention!

Also, stop with your "funny-dates". YYYY-MM-DD is the ONLY correct way to type dates. STANDARDS!

Haha, I certainly agree that it is appropriate here, but MM-DD-YYYY is the U.S. standard and I will continue to use it when appropriate.

It's like how everyone got obsessed with the metric system: It works great for special fields but sucks for everyday use.

[SgtSpike]

I voted Yes, but I should have voted this option:

Switch to XBT. An XBT is 100 satoshi (or 1/1,000,000 BTC). This allows us to have $21,000,000,000,000 units of the base unit of currency, and an exchange rate much less threatening to newcomers.

I like the idea of allowing for more price growth in Bitcoin, and also complying with international standards for having only two decimal places of fractionality.

This makes sense.

I mean think about it.  Who WOULDN'T want to jump on the Bitcoin gravy train if you could buy a share for $0.00012 that is predicted to be worth $54/ea by Bloomberg?  Heck, who wouldn't immediately buy 100,000 shares of the stuff, as a "just in case" hedge?

[2586]

Also, stop with your "funny-dates". YYYY-MM-DD is the ONLY correct way to type dates. STANDARDS!

Haha, I certainly agree that it is appropriate here, but MM-DD-YYYY is the U.S. standard and I will continue to use it when appropriate.

Are you only trying to get USians to switch to mBTC?

It's like how everyone got obsessed with the metric system: It works great for special fields but sucks for everyday use.

Seriously? As compared to the English system, where no one can remember all the conversions?

[keelba]

The metric system brings up a good point. With distance, for example, you have a meter at a reasonable length and then you can go up or down from there 1,000xmeter = kilometer, 1/1000xmeter=millimeter. But with Bitcoin, we started at the top and are having to work our way down from there. It's like saying 1 meter equals the distance from the Earth to the moon and then we have to break down meters smaller and smaller. Maybe we need a standard unit of measure somewhere between 1 BTC and 1 Satoshi where we can go up or down from that. We kind of already do that with dollars, obviously dimes and pennies in the downward direction, but also everyone knows what is "a Grand" or "10 Grand". That's easier than saying "Ten-thousand dollars".

[Missionary]

How can one hope to keep such obscure conversion ratios straight?  It is MUCH easier to use feet, pounds, and gallons!

This was irony, right? Since I am not 100% fluent in English, irony can sometimes pass me by as someone making a serious argument.

Metrics is the standard. The minority that uses other systems should adapt as quickly as possible.

[CasinoBit]

It amazes me to an extent just how much people are motivated by such trivial psychological factors.

Yes, it's amazing(/scary) how much effect it has.

It amazes me to an extent just how much people are motivated by such trivial psychological factors.

This much?



Which one is better half banana, quarter banana or 60 bananas?

Me too, but it is a very real psychological phenomenon, and far from trivial.  This is a legitimate conversation to have if we want to see mass adoption of Bitcoin.

You know why they have stock splits?  100% because of the psychological barrier of people not wanting to invest in stock valued much higher per share than comparable stocks in the same industry.

Bitcoin needs a stock split.  It is far too overvalued per unit for the average person to feel good about investing in it.

LSD is worth 30,000$ per gram, doesn't stop people from "investing" into it even though they are buying 0.00005 of a gram for 20 bucks. Are drug users more enlightened than the average Bitcoin user?

[Razick]

Also, stop with your "funny-dates". YYYY-MM-DD is the ONLY correct way to type dates. STANDARDS!

Haha, I certainly agree that it is appropriate here, but MM-DD-YYYY is the U.S. standard and I will continue to use it when appropriate.

Are you only trying to get USians to switch to mBTC?

It's like how everyone got obsessed with the metric system: It works great for special fields but sucks for everyday use.

Seriously? As compared to the English system, where no one can remember all the conversions?

The problem with the metric system is that the base measurements were poorly chosen, and the system isn't a huge improvement to begin with.

Standard units are just so convenient. Why is a meter so darn huge and a gram so small?

 Is it really that hard to remember a few simple ratios?

Besides the mile, 5,280 feet, it's all simple. As for celsius, do we really need a whole new system just to make it easier to remember the temperatures at which water boils and freezes? Really? 32, 212, that simple!

I guess I don't know why I don't like metric, I just don't.

Why fix what isn't broken? No one complains that there are 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour, 24 hours in a day, 30-31 days in a month, and 365 days in a year. Life is full of things you have to remember.

--- ANYWAY, we all have preferences and I for one will remain 6 feet tall and 135 lbs instead of 1.288 Meters and 61,235 grams. Back on topic.

[Missionary]

Also, stop with your "funny-dates". YYYY-MM-DD is the ONLY correct way to type dates. STANDARDS!

Haha, I certainly agree that it is appropriate here, but MM-DD-YYYY is the U.S. standard and I will continue to use it when appropriate.

Are you only trying to get USians to switch to mBTC?

It's like how everyone got obsessed with the metric system: It works great for special fields but sucks for everyday use.

Seriously? As compared to the English system, where no one can remember all the conversions?

The problem with the metric system is that the base measurements were poorly chosen, and the system isn't a huge improvement to begin with.

Standard units are just so convenient. Why is a meter so darn huge and a gram so small?

 Is it really that hard to remember a few simple ratios?

Besides the mile, 5,280 feet, it's all simple. As for celsius, do we really need a whole new system just to make it easier to remember the temperatures at which water boils and freezes? Really? 32, 212, that simple!

I guess I don't know why I don't like metric, I just don't.

Why fix what isn't broken? No one complains that there are 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour, 24 hours in a day, 30-31 days in a month, and 365 days in a year. Life is full of things you have to remember.

--- ANYWAY, we all have preferences and I for one will remain 6 feet tall and 135 lbs instead of 1.288 Meters and 61,235 grams. Back on topic.

Actually, kg is the standard unit for weight, not g. It's the only standard unit with a prefix.

You should not use the term "Standard units" about your imperial system, that's just fail...

[Birdy]

LSD is worth 30,000$ per gram, doesn't stop people from "investing" into it even though they are buying 0.00005 of a gram for 20 bucks. Are drug users more enlightened than the average Bitcoin user?

You will get the first one for free, after that you are addicted. No need for more tricks here.

[SgtSpike]

LSD is worth 30,000$ per gram, doesn't stop people from "investing" into it even though they are buying 0.00005 of a gram for 20 bucks. Are drug users more enlightened than the average Bitcoin user?

There's a difference between investing and moving product you know will sell at a higher price.

--- ANYWAY, we all have preferences and I for one will remain 6 feet tall and 135 lbs instead of 1.288 Meters and 61,235 grams. Back on topic.

I can see your metric conversions are working most excellently. 

[Razick]

Also, stop with your "funny-dates". YYYY-MM-DD is the ONLY correct way to type dates. STANDARDS!

Haha, I certainly agree that it is appropriate here, but MM-DD-YYYY is the U.S. standard and I will continue to use it when appropriate.

Are you only trying to get USians to switch to mBTC?

It's like how everyone got obsessed with the metric system: It works great for special fields but sucks for everyday use.

Seriously? As compared to the English system, where no one can remember all the conversions?

The problem with the metric system is that the base measurements were poorly chosen, and the system isn't a huge improvement to begin with.

Standard units are just so convenient. Why is a meter so darn huge and a gram so small?

 Is it really that hard to remember a few simple ratios?

Besides the mile, 5,280 feet, it's all simple. As for celsius, do we really need a whole new system just to make it easier to remember the temperatures at which water boils and freezes? Really? 32, 212, that simple!

I guess I don't know why I don't like metric, I just don't.

Why fix what isn't broken? No one complains that there are 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour, 24 hours in a day, 30-31 days in a month, and 365 days in a year. Life is full of things you have to remember.

--- ANYWAY, we all have preferences and I for one will remain 6 feet tall and 135 lbs instead of 1.288 Meters and 61,235 grams. Back on topic.

Actually, kg is the standard unit for weight, not g. It's the only standard unit with a prefix.

You should not use the term "Standard units" about your imperial system, that's just fail...

I used grams tongue in cheek, I do understand metric and for some purposes use it.

Actually, in thee US it is referred to as the Standard System. There is a difference too, as I student pilot if I was to fly to the UK, I would have to convert from Imperial gallons to Standard/US gallons.

[CasinoBit]

You will get the first one for free, after that you are addicted. No need for more tricks here.

Hello my name is Casinobit and I am the Bitcoin addict, have been stacking since the first hit on Bitcoin-OTC in early 11'

LSD is worth 30,000$ per gram, doesn't stop people from "investing" into it even though they are buying 0.00005 of a gram for 20 bucks. Are drug users more enlightened than the average Bitcoin user?

There's a difference between investing and moving product you know will sell at a higher price.

--- ANYWAY, we all have preferences and I for one will remain 6 feet tall and 135 lbs instead of 1.288 Meters and 61,235 grams. Back on topic.

I can see your metric conversions are working most excellently. 

What makes you think that BTC will not sell at a "higher price"?