Ripples a threat to bitcoin?

[mgio]

Ripple is going to fail.

- It's pre-mined and OpenCoin and the creators are keeping most of the coins. Why would I willingly give them money? Especially at this point when Ripple is 100% useless.
- It is centralized and prone to government regulation and shutdown.
- It is not open-source, and is debatable whether it will ever be.


Presently the market cap of Ripple is larger than that of Bitcoin. To me that says it is over-valued and definitely not worth investing in.

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[AmazonStuff]

Could not watch BTC free-falling anymore and I exchanged all my BTC to XRP, wish me luck, I barely know anything about Ripple

[afbitcoins]

Could not watch BTC free-falling anymore and I exchanged all my BTC to XRP, wish me luck, I barely know anything about Ripple

where can you exchange? I have some vastly overvalued XRP i want to swap for bitcoins.

[bitcoinbear]

Could not watch BTC free-falling anymore and I exchanged all my BTC to XRP, wish me luck, I barely know anything about Ripple

where can you exchange? I have some vastly overvalued XRP i want to swap for bitcoins.

You can exchange right in Ripple. The ripple client has a built in exchange feature where you can trade your XRP for BTC/BitStamp, which you can then withdraw to BitStamp and send to whatever wallet you want.

[afbitcoins]

Could not watch BTC free-falling anymore and I exchanged all my BTC to XRP, wish me luck, I barely know anything about Ripple

where can you exchange? I have some vastly overvalued XRP i want to swap for bitcoins.

You can exchange right in Ripple. The ripple client has a built in exchange feature where you can trade your XRP for BTC/BitStamp, which you can then withdraw to BitStamp and send to whatever wallet you want.

cheers, i don't have a bitstamp account but will see if i can create one.

[afbitcoins]

Have to say I'm slightly alarmed by the number of people who think ripple will help the bitcoin economy!!!! (At the time of posting 32%) Does fiat money help gold and siver? no. exactly.

Someone please explain to me how it helps bitcoin  

This is my take http://afbitcoins.wordpress.com/2013/05/30/ripples-a-debt-based-centrally-controlled-monetary-system/

[bitcoinbear]

Someone please explain to me how it helps bitcoin  

Bitcoins have limits. There is a limit on the number of transactions in each block, and there is a limit in how frequently money can be moved (because you have to wait for confirmations). If some of the transactions are moved to Ripple, where there are no limits on number of transaction and confirmation is almost instantaneous, then the total size of the bitcoin+ripple economy can be much larger than by just using bitcoins.

[b!z]

Ripple won't kill Bitcoin, and Bitcoin won't kill Ripple.
They are systems that can work well together.

[afbitcoins]

Someone please explain to me how it helps bitcoin  

Bitcoins have limits. There is a limit on the number of transactions in each block, and there is a limit in how frequently money can be moved (because you have to wait for confirmations). If some of the transactions are moved to Ripple, where there are no limits on number of transaction and confirmation is almost instantaneous, then the total size of the bitcoin+ripple economy can be much larger than by just using bitcoins.

That seems to me to help ripple but actually have potential negative impact on bitcoins. Imagine a scenario where the amount of 'bitcoin' transactions happening on ripple is bigger than that on the bitcoin network. In effect a large slice of the bitcoin economy has been chopped away and absorbed by a centrally controlled debt based system. If you think ripple will end up becoming open source and decentralized you have more faith than me.   

The best thing about bitcoins are the hard limits, you know the quantity, you know when it has been verified, you can inspect the blockchain, its all out there in the open. And you hold the actual asset. If a large part of the economy has disappeared off to ripple suddenly you dont really know much anymore.  Bitcoin has been opened up to manipulation. Bitcoins throne will have been swiped from under its feet.

[afbitcoins]

I'd forgotten about this thread!

Hi tokeweed whats the countdown for ?

Is that when the bitcoin singularity will happen ?

[underground_]

I'd forgotten about this thread!

Hi tokeweed whats the countdown for ?

Is that when the bitcoin singularity will happen ?

http://www.thebitcointrader.com/2013/09/opencoin-aiming-to-open-source-ripple.html

[Coinseeker]

There is so much fundamentally wrong in this thread, it's hard to know where to start but let's start with the title.

Ripples a threat to Bitcoin?

I assume you mean XRP, the internal crypto currency and not Ripple, the p2p payment network.  I think Bitcoin trumps XRP at least for now, because of it's abilities as a store of value.  If XRP was ever to be an actual competitor of Bitcoin, it would actually be years and years down the road and only because users choose XRP over BTC.  But for no other reason.

It's important for people to note and understand the difference.  If you don't like XRP, don't use it.  Aside from minimum account requirements for tx fees to prevent spam, XRP can be irrelevant.  Although it does have it's advantages within the Ripple payment network.

The payment network, that is Ripple, is not a crypto currency.  It's a decentralized, P2P payment network, allowing users to transact in any currency they choose.  BTC, LTC, FTC, PPC, USD, EUR, CAD, INR, etc.  With Ripple, now you don't have to beg merchants to accept your crypto of choice, merchants simply integrate with the Ripple network, similar to integrating with say, Paypal or Authorize.net.  It becomes another method for merchants to accept payment but this one allows for payments in crypto and fiat currencies.

For the merchant that dosen't want to directly accept BTC or LTC, no problem.  They can choose to only receive payment in fiat currency.  However, you the buyer can still pay the merchant in any currency you choose.  Send the BTC and the Ripple network will automatically find the cheapest path to convert your BTC into the currency the merchant requires.  Everybody is happy and transactions happen in seconds not minutes or even hours, which can be the case sometimes with the blockchain.

Ripple makes up for the weaknesses in the payment network surrounding Bitcoin, etc.  Whether it's internal crypto, XRP, is "better" than Bitcoin is totally subjective and irrelevant to the brilliance and benefit that the Ripple payment network provides to all the crypto world.

EDIT:  Just realized this was an old thread, bumped.  Oh well...

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Quite a sober anaylsis, you probably right that fractional reserve lending with bitcoin is inevitable, but the thought of it makes me want to paint my face blue and run around shouting 'Freeeedom!!!'

Of course fractional reserve lending will take place.  By itself I don't think it is a bad thing, it's just that the system obscures somewhat that your money is being lent out/used for other purposes in order to gain a profit.  The advantage with bitcoin is that if you just want to preserve your money without counterparty risk, you can do this pretty easily, in a currency that won't be inflated away infinitely.

[afbitcoins]

I'd forgotten about this thread!

Hi tokeweed whats the countdown for ?

Is that when the bitcoin singularity will happen ?

http://www.thebitcointrader.com/2013/09/opencoin-aiming-to-open-source-ripple.html

The bitcoin trader sold out

[afbitcoins]

There is so much fundamentally wrong in this thread, it's hard to know where to start but let's start with the title.

Ripples a threat to Bitcoin?

I assume you mean XRP, the internal crypto currency and not Ripple, the p2p payment network.  I think Bitcoin trumps XRP at least for now, because of it's abilities as a store of value.  If XRP was ever to be an actual competitor of Bitcoin, it would actually be years and years down the road and only because users choose XRP over BTC.  But for no other reason.

It's important for people to note and understand the difference.  If you don't like XRP, don't use it.  Aside from minimum account requirements for tx fees to prevent spam, XRP can be irrelevant.  Although it does have it's advantages within the Ripple payment network.

The payment network, that is Ripple, is not a crypto currency.  It's a decentralized, P2P payment network, allowing users to transact in any currency they choose.  BTC, LTC, FTC, PPC, USD, EUR, CAD, INR, etc.  With Ripple, now you don't have to beg merchants to accept your crypto of choice, merchants simply integrate with the Ripple network, similar to integrating with say, Paypal or Authorize.net.  It becomes another method for merchants to accept payment but this one allows for payments in crypto and fiat currencies.

For the merchant that dosen't want to directly accept BTC or LTC, no problem.  They can choose to only receive payment in fiat currency.  However, you the buyer can still pay the merchant in any currency you choose.  Send the BTC and the Ripple network will automatically find the cheapest path to convert your BTC into the currency the merchant requires.  Everybody is happy and transactions happen in seconds not minutes or even hours, which can be the case sometimes with the blockchain.

Ripple makes up for the weaknesses in the payment network surrounding Bitcoin, etc.  Whether it's internal crypto, XRP, is "better" than Bitcoin is totally subjective and irrelevant to the brilliance and benefit that the Ripple payment network provides to all the crypto world.

EDIT:  Just realized this was an old thread, bumped.  Oh well...

This is my opinion
http://afbitcoins.wordpress.com/2013/05/30/ripples-a-debt-based-centrally-controlled-monetary-system/

[Stephen Gornick]

Have to say I'm slightly alarmed by the number of people who think ripple will help the bitcoin economy!!!! (At the time of posting 32%) Does fiat money help gold and siver? no. exactly.

You confuse the Bitcoin economy (use of Bitcoin's payment network) with the value of a bitcoin (use of bitcoins as a currency).

Certainly Bitcoin has value due to its unique properties, so if some competitor has similar properties and takes "market share" away from Bitcoin that will decrease the demand for bitcoins and thus a lower exchange rate.

But my interest in seeing Bitcoin succeed has more to do with seeing an alternative to fiat become widely used, not to maximize the Bitcoin exchange rate.

Ripple makes up for the weaknesses in the payment network surrounding Bitcoin, etc.

Bingo.  Anything that adds to Bitcoin's utility should be welcomed.  I just was at an event in which silver was one of the payment methods accepted.  Let's say I only had bitcoins.   I could have used Ripple to convert my bitcoins to DYM (voucher), and the merchant would then receive silver:

Introducing Ripple Currency: DYM
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149533.msg3219655#msg3219655

Both of us would have been happy.   Neither of us would have touched fiat.  That, ... would have been a win.

[notme]

Have to say I'm slightly alarmed by the number of people who think ripple will help the bitcoin economy!!!! (At the time of posting 32%) Does fiat money help gold and siver? no. exactly.

You confuse the Bitcoin economy (use of Bitcoin's payment network) with the value of a Bitcoin (use of bitcoins as a currency).

Certainly Bitcoin has value due to its unique properties, so if some competitor has similar properties and takes "market share" away from Bitcoin that will decrease the demand for bitcoins and thus a lower exchange rate.

But my interest in seeing Bitcoin succeed has more to do with seeing an alternative to fiat become widely used, not to maximize the Bitcoin exchange rate.

Ripple makes up for the weaknesses in the payment network surrounding Bitcoin, etc.

Bingo.  Anything that adds to Bitcoin's utility should be welcomed.  I just was at an event in which silver was one of the payment methods accepted.  Let's say I only had bitcoins.   I could have used Ripple to convert my bitcoins to DYM (voucher), and the merchant would then receive silver:

Introducing Ripple Currency: DYM
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149533.msg3219655#msg3219655

Both of us would have been happy.   Neither of us would have touched fiat.  That, ... would have been a win.

The only problem being that any currency besides XRP in the Ripple system is only an IOU.  Not necessarily a problem if you are dealing with people you can trust, but not something that should be glossed over.

[Coinseeker]

Have to say I'm slightly alarmed by the number of people who think ripple will help the bitcoin economy!!!! (At the time of posting 32%) Does fiat money help gold and siver? no. exactly.

You confuse the Bitcoin economy (use of Bitcoin's payment network) with the value of a Bitcoin (use of bitcoins as a currency).

Certainly Bitcoin has value due to its unique properties, so if some competitor has similar properties and takes "market share" away from Bitcoin that will decrease the demand for bitcoins and thus a lower exchange rate.

But my interest in seeing Bitcoin succeed has more to do with seeing an alternative to fiat become widely used, not to maximize the Bitcoin exchange rate.

Ripple makes up for the weaknesses in the payment network surrounding Bitcoin, etc.

Bingo.  Anything that adds to Bitcoin's utility should be welcomed.  I just was at an event in which silver was one of the payment methods accepted.  Let's say I only had bitcoins.   I could have used Ripple to convert my bitcoins to DYM (voucher), and the merchant would then receive silver:

Introducing Ripple Currency: DYM
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149533.msg3219655#msg3219655

Both of us would have been happy.   Neither of us would have touched fiat.  That, ... would have been a win.

The only problem being that any currency besides XRP in the Ripple system is only an IOU.  Not necessarily a problem if you are dealing with people you can trust, but not something that should be glossed over.

Every Bitcoin being traded on any exchange is an IOU.  It's not that it needs to be glossed over, it's that people need to understand what an IOU is.  An IOU is simply a balance.  The USD or BTC "balance" in your Gox or Bitstamp account are simply IOU's.  Gox or Bitstamp "owe" you that balance.  You "trust" them to give it back when you ask for it.  Ripple just lifts the veil...while it is shocking to some at first, it's only because you didn't realize that nearly everything you do with currency is via IOU.  The balance you see in the ATM is an IOU.  The amount you see in your Paypal or Dwolla account is an IOU.  

You don't trade on an exchange (IOU issuer) you don't trust, you don't bank with a bank (IOU issuer) you don't trust and in Ripple, you shouldn't use a gateway (IOU issuer) you don't trust.  It's all really that simple. Nothing stops you from emptying your bank account and storing the cash in your mattress, just as nothing prevents you from withdrawing your BTC back to your wallet for storage.  

On another note, I'm very happy to see the unscientific poll results to be where they are.  It shows that not only are more and more people finally beginning to understand Ripple, but that more and more people actually care about crypto and the fiat problems it solves more than just a single crypto currency.  It's the tech that's disruptive, not the brand.

[Keldel]

Money in Ripple is debt based... Don't know about you, but I think the world had enough of those.

Only non-debt-based money in Ripple is the XRP. It doesn't offer any advantage to bitcoin. All XRP supply is centrally controlled by OpenCoin.

[dillpicklechips]

Ripple is interesting but I think they made a major mistake with XRP. (Other than not open sourcing right away). XRP was intended not as a currency but as a spam preventative measure. Too many people saw XRP as an investment like Bitcoin and that should have been made more clear from the beginning that it is not a currency but a way of entering the ripple ecosystem. Now we have XRP over valued and the creator has TONS of them left and a lot of influence on future price. They control the market. What they should have done is made a clear "goal price" for XRP. And by controlling the flow of how they unload their massive amount of XRP they can maintain a "goal price". They should have given themselves a huge amount of XRP and given/sold XRP out one at a time. 1 XRP = 1 USD for example as a "best price". Perhaps a company that does it differently would be more successful but with a different name? Or would that even work?