BitFunder - Lets grow together! A request to all users - https://bitfunder.com

[Surprise]

Random thoughts:


I think that WeExchange is providing a significant barrier to new users, but as an existing user I don't mind it.
Options fees are way too high. 2.5% is much more fair and might even bring higher revenues. I think 10% deters a lot of people from participating in options trading.
Show sales of options on a graph like sales of stock.
No trollbox please.

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[Ukyo]

1. weexchange.co's service is horrible (I have an open ticket there for now ~1 week) - please do provide alternatives!

2. Allow pricing in something else than BTC (it can still be only traded in BTC) such as LTC, USD, EUR...

3. Integrate ColoredCoins via OpenTransactions and/or Ripple IOUs so people can actually own shares, not Bitfunder IOUs of IOUs of companies (or even other IOUs).

4. Allow me to offer shares (and BTC!) to people who want to short sell/long buy.

5. An actual registration address + contact information would be nice too

1. Unfortunately WeExchange's current site and support system is extremely poorly setup.
Which is why i have been spending the majority of my time on the new site.
I think at this point, every open ticket is regarding Ripple or tickets going back and fourth with users who want to AML verify using PO Box's and argue that they should not have to provide documentation. If your ticket has been somehow overlooked through the masses of complains about ripple's daemon suffering from its internal problems, I apologize.

Please PM me your ticket id on Weex and I will personally get it handled asap.

2. Can you elaborate? You say let pricing be in other things, and then say still in BTC?

3. Currently, there are huge legal concerns above and beyond with Ripple, as well as technical issues. So where that was once a plan and has already been built in, will have to wait until those issues (if ever) can be corrected. As for ColoredCoins, etc, I have been considering it.

4. Options trading? It's there. Unless you mean margins. Did you know that on BitFunder you can do options trading for BTC/USD ? As well as AUD and CAD?

5. As soon as I have wrapped up some very important dealings, I will be able to disclose everything publicly. Doing so in the meantime has a greater chance to harm things then help.

[Ukyo]

High fees made me take my volume to btct.co.....first thing i would change.

I like the appearance. I think trollbox would be fun, but definitely not professional.

Noted on the fees.

And for the trollbox, I have the same issue for the professionalism side of it which is the main reason it has not happened yet.
Any attempt to keep it 'clean' would require too much moderation.
Though, sometimes the people screaming "BITCOINS TANKING!!! SELL!!!" is amusing

I have considered using weex to help with this. By allowing users to share WeExchange verification status with their BitFunder account.
We can require chat box users to be weex verified. This means once banned from chat for abuse, it's fairly permenant.

Thoughts?

-Ukyo

[ThickAsThieves]

Random thoughts:


I think that WeExchange is providing a significant barrier to new users, but as an existing user I don't mind it.
Options fees are way too high. 2.5% is much more fair and might even bring higher revenues. I think 10% deters a lot of people from participating in options trading.
Show sales of options on a graph like sales of stock.
No trollbox please.

The 10% fee only applies to the premium amount. Simply reduce the premium and inflate the strike price instead if you want to manage your fees better.

[Ukyo]

Random thoughts:
I think that WeExchange is providing a significant barrier to new users, but as an existing user I don't mind it.
Options fees are way too high. 2.5% is much more fair and might even bring higher revenues. I think 10% deters a lot of people from participating in options trading.
Show sales of options on a graph like sales of stock.
No trollbox please.

Keep in mind that the 10% fee is only on the premium. Rarely will premiums ever go over 1btc let alone 10.

Options originally on graphs and everywhere else, and everyone complained about "bugged trades" because the pricing can be so off the wall compared to market price.
Price for a complete option has no relevance to the current market price and does nothing but confuse people, esp. new people.

[Entropy-uc]

Fees are quite simply non-competitive.  You need to lower both the charges at each tier and the BTC thresholds to get there.

Any implementation of bots should include a minimum fee for bots and a minimum time that an order has to be present to allow a human to execute against the bid or offer.  Otherwise you will have bot vs. bot battles that make your site unusable by humans.

The history of BTC securities is littered with the wreckage of scams, frauds, and incompetent management.  You need to take some protective steps to prevent ripoffs.  A few suggestions:
    - have some level of peer review for new issues
    - require an actual legal entity or verified identification of the issuer
    - vet statements for accuracy.  AMC's bullshit revenue forecasts being spammed on the front page every day make you look like a fool.

[Ukyo]

Fees are quite simply non-competitive.  You need to lower both the charges at each tier and the BTC thresholds to get there.

Any implementation of bots should include a minimum fee for bots and a minimum time that an order has to be present to allow a human to execute against the bid or offer.  Otherwise you will have bot vs. bot battles that make your site unusable by humans.

The history of BTC securities is littered with the wreckage of scams, frauds, and incompetent management.  You need to take some protective steps to prevent ripoffs.  A few suggestions:
    - have some level of peer review for new issues
    - require an actual legal entity or verified identification of the issuer
    - vet statements for accuracy.  AMC's bullshit revenue forecasts being spammed on the front page every day make you look like a fool.

To be honest, I could not agree more.

Fee's, well, that's why were in the discussion.

I have been debating a while about special fees or costs and special time restrictions/allowances for API trading.

As for asset listings, much like I mentioned above for the chatbox idea, I am considering requiring all asset issuers be WeExchange verified. Full AML/KYC doc's.

Currently, I have been manually verifying any BFL/Avalon orders people claim to have. I will not allow anyone say "I have XXX" without proof.
As for checking statements, I too have been very annoyed over the past month about the news system.
Currently, like other sites, issuer's can post whatever they feel in real time. I am looking to change news posts to need an approval process.

[drdanishkhan]

+1 for the AMC part  

[Ukyo]

+1 for the AMC part  

In fact, looking at it, I would say that AMC's news posts have been borderline abusive.
With this, I have blocked AMC's posts from the dashboard.

[Entropy-uc]

Fees are quite simply non-competitive.  You need to lower both the charges at each tier and the BTC thresholds to get there.

Any implementation of bots should include a minimum fee for bots and a minimum time that an order has to be present to allow a human to execute against the bid or offer.  Otherwise you will have bot vs. bot battles that make your site unusable by humans.

The history of BTC securities is littered with the wreckage of scams, frauds, and incompetent management.  You need to take some protective steps to prevent ripoffs.  A few suggestions:
    - have some level of peer review for new issues
    - require an actual legal entity or verified identification of the issuer
    - vet statements for accuracy.  AMC's bullshit revenue forecasts being spammed on the front page every day make you look like a fool.

To be honest, I could not agree more.

Fee's, well, that's why were in the discussion.

I have been debating a while about special fees or costs and special time restrictions/allowances for API trading.

As for asset listings, much like I mentioned above for the chatbox idea, I am considering requiring all asset issuers be WeExchange verified. Full AML/KYC doc's.

Currently, I have been manually verifying any BFL/Avalon orders people claim to have. I will not allow anyone say "I have XXX" without proof.
As for checking statements, I too have been very annoyed over the past month about the news system.
Currently, like other sites, issuer's can post whatever they feel in real time. I am looking to change news posts to need an approval process.

I think it's great that you are requiring proof of orders.

My big beef with AMC is not his Avalon mining plans.  It is his claims to be building his own silicon.  It is BFL all over again.  He and his people have no competency in the field, and no idea of the capital required to deliver devices at the process nodes they claim to be working on delivering a device.

Want to sell stock in a company to develop a device?   Include a stack of resumes showing a background in the field, and a real schedule and budget to get the job done.

[drdanishkhan]

Some say its ASICminer 2.0 .. well i seriously think they are just BFL 2.0.. big promises no deliveries..

[Ukyo]

As I told AMC,

I am only supportive of their mining, and not chip production.

[Birdy]

For the record, yes, I know some people are not happy with the WeExchange requirement, however I intend to give it at least another month or two to see how the big changes with WeExchange effect this. But by all means, if it's a major issue stopping you from using BitFunder, please say so.

It was, the notion of having to deal with another Exchange website to use Bitfunder was enough to convince me to use btct.co instead.

[Sukrim]

Please PM me your ticket id on Weex and I will personally get it handled asap.

2. Can you elaborate? You say let pricing be in other things, and then say still in BTC?

PM sent and answered, thanks

I mean something like "selling 1 share of "SUKRIM.DEBT" for 10 USD", then depending on the current market anyone can use 10 USD worth of LTC or BTC to buy 1 share.

This would also make it clarer for mining bond holders what they are investing in, as these need to be priced and valuated in USD imho.

[Deprived]

2. Allow pricing in something else than BTC (it can still be only traded in BTC) such as LTC, USD, EUR...

2. Can you elaborate? You say let pricing be in other things, and then say still in BTC?

I'll clarify - as I'm pretty certain Sukrim is referring to a feature I'd find massively useful.

A lot of securities are effectively denominated in different currencies to BTC - generally USD.  But at present all orders have to placed in BTC - leading to securities with face values fixed in BTC when that doesn't reflect the reality of the security value.

What would be useful is to be able to place a bid/ask at $X - and it would be displayed in the order book (in BTC) at whatever the current BTC value of $X was (and automatically maintained at that value).

Consider if I issued a security that had a face value of $1.

At present I'd have to manually calculate what $1 was worth in BTC - and could never leave orders up unattended as if the exchange-rate moved unfavourably I'd end up not receiving or spending the BTC equivalent of $1.

What would be good, instead, is to be able to place them for sale at $1 - then the exchange maintain the BTC price based on latest exchange-rates.  It's not actually quite as useful as it may sound - as unless funds are promptly converted there's still exchange-rate risk.  But it would allow the placement of unattended orders knowing that any loss due to exchange-rate would be because of moves AFTER your orders had been filled, not to people filling your orders after an unfavourable exchange-rate move.  It would allow more liquidity on securities with heavy fiat exposure in particular.

EDIT: I see sukrim responded whilst I was typing my post - it's same point anyway.

[Ukyo]

Please PM me your ticket id on Weex and I will personally get it handled asap.

2. Can you elaborate? You say let pricing be in other things, and then say still in BTC?

PM sent and answered, thanks

I mean something like "selling 1 share of "SUKRIM.DEBT" for 10 USD", then depending on the current market anyone can use 10 USD worth of LTC or BTC to buy 1 share.

This would also make it clarer for mining bond holders what they are investing in, as these need to be priced and valuated in USD imho.

While I do agree this would be useful, it unfortunately opens up a whole new additional legal can of worms.
Not to mention the engine constantly have to check pricing of bids.
Also, as BTC price shifts around (and swings sometimes crazily within minutes) it would cause massive consistent changes to the order books.
For example, if I placed $10 USD worth of a BID on the books for 1 share, as the market price (Which market should be used? gox?) can swing pretty fast in 30 minutes, causing the order to move up or down in the order book constantly.

Also, the main point of these exchanges were to have cryptocurrency based exchanges, not fiat based exchanges. If you want a fiat based exchange, there are plenty around the world.

Between legal, tech, and reasoning I don't see it happening.

[Sukrim]

If it is already possible to have options on USD on your platform, why not use these?

[Deprived]

Also, the main point of these exchanges were to have cryptocurrency based exchanges, not fiat based exchanges. If you want a fiat based exchange, there are plenty around the world.

The problem is that the vast majority of offerings on your exchange (same for BTC.CO and LTC-GLobal) actually change value more in line with fiat than with crypto currencies.  All mining shares for starters.  All currency exchanging systems where funds are tied up in USD post-sale.  ANy company whose stock and prices are set in USD.  PM funds.

BTC-denominated securities are largely a pretence - they're USD-valued securities being sold priced in BTC with artifical attempts to try to maintain a stable price in BTC.  There ARE exceptions - but those are a small minority.

Having to place orders in BTC for something which has a value that will change mainly in synch with USD forces the spread to be wider - and liquidity to be lower.

Guess the solution will be to use a bot and the API to maintain orders.

[Ukyo]

If it is already possible to have options on USD on your platform, why not use these?

Actually, you do not hold USD on BitFunder.
You hold shares of the FIAT.USD asset.

[furuknap]

Wee exchange is a deal-breaker for me, always has been, always will be.

Beyond that, I have no idea because I'm not using a site on which I do not trust the security. When I recently got an email that the system had failed to register med for two month because I have non-English characters in my name, I got all the evidence I need that the site is developed by amateurs, and I've seen enough professionally developed money systems fail to stay miles away from anything that looks, acts, and smells like amateur hour and doesn't give me an immedate sense of security.

.b