Bitcoin will fail

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

The miners in Bitcoinland are the centralbanks. If they do not issue their bitcoin at cost+20% profit, and do not see the longer term money of processing transactions, There will never be enough money velocity to grow an economy. Be greedy, but sell before the next guy because the current process of buying bitcoin is ineffiecient, and way overpriced compared the cost of mining. You are NOT DeBeers diamonds.

If bitcoin are not dispersed into bitcoin projects, and it is constantly treated like gold 2.0 - we will forever have a dollar economy. Bernanke and the Fed win.

Do not "hold your coins for the longest time" if you are a miner and also wish to subvert the system. Greed will not help you. It really will not take much to bring bitcoin back down to 2-4$.

If i am wrong and bitcoin maintains its price, there will never be a bitcoin economy, it remains a speculative casino. I do not care about divisibilty as that is akin to inflation.

It being an instant payment system means little, as I have no one in china to pay or buy stuff.

I would really like to grow food and sell it for bitcoin, unfortunately  in order to do this I need to convince land owners, banks, farmers that my bitcoin is worth more than speculative value. In which case I can only start and fund that project with Fiat paper. Farming is not inexpensive. It may cost 500k-1mil to start a successful farm over 2-5 years to become productive enough to feed maybe 100 people/year. Assuming I have the horticultural credentials necessary to be trusted to get the investment, Who will actually put their bitcoins where their mouth is.... I assume you want your bitcoins to have real purchasing power more than 5 years after its debut... Btw I do not have enough money or bitcoin to start said farm.

If it become nearly impossible for me to raise the resources necessary to start a big project, wouldnt that defeat the purpose of coins being issued relatively easy?

Again if i am wrong, then I will be rich rich rich one day based on the few coins I think are on my flashdrives.

[1715680031]

1715680031

[leemar]

Never heard such a cogent argument, must sell all my coins now :-)

[RodeoX]

Good thing you made this important discovery that we all missed. Crap, well... Go ahead and send me all your worthless coins and I will see to it that they are disposed of. 

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

Good thing you made this important discovery that we all missed. Crap, well... Go ahead and send me all your worthless coins and I will see to it that they are disposed of. 

You see, my actual goal is find investors to invest in a farm and produce worthy tangible items. So I would need a miner to invest bitcoin in me at a rate that is not worthless, but about 6-8$/btc

What will it take to get an investment large enough to start this?

I wonder of all the bitcoin miners, how many actually view their bitcoins as tool beyond gold 2.0

[DeathAndTaxes]

Thanks.  Just sold 500 BTC at market.  I will sell the rest once I get access to my cold wallet (damn my excessive security measures).  Thank you for pointing out the facts* nobody but you could see.  The firm (and baseless) prediction of $2-$4 is what convinced me.


*By "facts" I mean mindless rambling.  Hint: miners have no control over the rate of generation, the exchange rate or the velocity of the bitcoin economy (which is comparably high).

[grondilu]

I do not care about divisibilty as that is akin to inflation.

Try to use your brain a little before writing silly things.   If you decide to count your money in cents instead of dollars, does that make you one hundred times richer?

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

Good thing you made this important discovery that we all missed. Crap, well... Go ahead and send me all your worthless coins and I will see to it that they are disposed of. 

I am not a miner. The speculators(me) have a potential role to create an inflated value by buying bitcoins at an exchange as I think they might be worth something one day. But based on what I see already, they will not be once people realize there is no where to spend them.

If all you care about is the gold 2.0, understand the dollar wins! Similar to money, it is a tool, not a store of value.

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

I do not care about divisibilty as that is akin to inflation.

Try to use your brain a little before writing silly things.   If you decide to count your money in cents instead of dollars, does that make you one hundred times richer?

The decimal place can be moved as long as 51% of the mining(central banks) community agree. Inflation.

[prezbo]

I do not care about divisibilty as that is akin to inflation.

Try to use your brain a little before writing silly things.   If you decide to count your money in cents instead of dollars, does that make you one hundred times richer?

The decimal place can be moved as long as 51% of the mining(central banks) community agree. Inflation.

No one is talking about moving the decimal place but you Re-read what grondilu posted, a little bit slower this time.

[leemar]

Good thing you made this important discovery that we all missed. Crap, well... Go ahead and send me all your worthless coins and I will see to it that they are disposed of. 

You see, my actual goal is find investors to invest in a farm and produce worthy tangible items. So I would need a miner to invest bitcoin in me at a rate that is not worthless, but about 6-8$/btc

What will it take to get an investment large enough to start this?

I wonder of all the bitcoin miners, how many actually view their bitcoins as tool beyond gold 2.0

So you want someone to give you BTC currently priced at $128 for somewhere between 6-8$, doesn't sound like a great business opportunity to me but I might be missing something.

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

The firm (and baseless) prediction of $2-$4 is what convinced me.

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it is not a prediction, it is not baseless. Compute the cost equipment, electricity, human time spent monitoring it. You get a broad number of around 2-4$/btc.

The market may remain overbought for many years, but eventually it will return to the face value.

[DeathAndTaxes]

I do not care about divisibilty as that is akin to inflation.

Try to use your brain a little before writing silly things.   If you decide to count your money in cents instead of dollars, does that make you one hundred times richer?

The decimal place can be moved as long as 51% of the mining(central banks) community agree. Inflation.

Nope.  You couldn't do that with 51% (or any amount) of hashing power.  You can't change Bitcoin in that manner you can only fork it.  Users can continue to use the "current" Bitcoin and the miners that remains will get a larger share of the reward.  Try learning about how Bitcoin works before declaring it dead.  The Bitcoin as it exists today (21M BTC, irreversible, psuedo-anonymous, divisibility to 8 decimal places, 10 minute blocks, 50 block reward halving every 210,000 blocks) will ALWAYS exist as long as at least two nodes are using it and at least one node is mining.

[DeathAndTaxes]

it is not a prediction, it is not baseless. Compute the cost equipment, electricity, human time spent monitoring it. You get a broad number of around 2-4$/btc.

Then you should mine and make 90,000% annual profit.  Except the cost to mine is much much much higher than $2 to $4 per BTC.  Care to show your "math" (and I use the term lightly) on how the production cost (which is irrelevant to the exchange rate of a currency) is $2 to $4.

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

So you want someone to give you BTC currently priced at $128 for somewhere between 6-8$, doesn't sound like a great business opportunity to me but I might be missing something.
[/quote]

The business oppurtunity arrives in the form, because bitcoins were dispersed at near cost, over time the newer mined coins begin to carry a cost that will increase. Eventually it will be 10-15$/btc, eventually the cost to produce a bitcoin it will be 30-40$/btc so on and so forth. As long as bitcoin based projects are the focus.

[RodeoX]

I do agree with you (if I understand you correctly) that speculation is currently driving the bitcoin economy, and she is a bad driver. However if bitcoin requires us to use it in a certain way and requires our pampering, then it is not going to work.
What I have seen in the past two years is an endless stream haters and attackers. Despite their efforts bitcoin is stronger now than ever, and still growing stronger.    

[leemar]

So you want someone to give you BTC currently priced at $128 for somewhere between 6-8$, doesn't sound like a great business opportunity to me but I might be missing something.

The business oppurtunity arrives in the form, because bitcoins were dispersed at near cost, over time the newer mined coins begin to carry a cost that will increase. Eventually it will be 10-15$/btc, eventually the cost to produce a bitcoin it will be 30-40$/btc so on and so forth. As long as bitcoin based projects are the focus.
[/quote]

Thanks for explaining but  I will pass for now.

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

I do agree with you (if I understand you correctly) that speculation is currently driving the bitcoin economy, and she is a bad driver. However if bitcoin requires us to use it in a certain way and requires our pampering, then it is not going to work.
What I have seen in the past two years is an endless stream haters and attackers. Despite their efforts bitcoin is stronger now than ever, and still growing stronger.    

Speculation has its good powers, but only if the central banks take advantage of that. You can really leverage an investment with bitcoins, as long as the wealthy miners(central banks) are issuing bitcoin at a steady rate, and bitcoin based projects begin to pop up, You give me the coins, i sell what I need to the speculators for fiat expenses, as my farm becomes productive, so does the intrinsic value of bitcoin.

I am not a hater. I think bitcoin if beautiful, but there must be some very open, honest, intelligent conversations regarding the deployment and creation of a bitcoin economy.

Again the early adopter(wealthy miners) must bite off more risk than later adopters, yet again the early adopters have exponetially more to gain by taking the risks, that will eventually not be such a leap for the masses.

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

So you want someone to give you BTC currently priced at $128 for somewhere between 6-8$, doesn't sound like a great business opportunity to me but I might be missing something.

The business oppurtunity arrives in the form, because bitcoins were dispersed at near cost, over time the newer mined coins begin to carry a cost that will increase. Eventually it will be 10-15$/btc, eventually the cost to produce a bitcoin it will be 30-40$/btc so on and so forth. As long as bitcoin based projects are the focus.

Thanks for explaining but  I will pass for now.
[/quote]

Maybe you will reconsider after the price drops, if it drops. Unfortunately in this moment of "easy coins" with a premium market value. (heres your one chance of real investing leverage to create, real, tangible projects. Not imaginary wealth driven by artifical scarcity.

Even if bitcoin rises expontentially, do you really want to cash out for dollars? Again the fed and the dollar win if you chose this path, and eventually bitcoin crashes because there is no underlying economy.. It is much like a Fed propped up market. It works until it doesnt. Except this is fueled by irrational exuberence, 3.5 years after its inception and yet these projects are not being discussed. Rather the mentallity to hoard(save) is only going to be perpetrated.

[RodeoX]

I see what your saying. But a few things. The speculation is a relatively recent phenomena in bitcoin. There were always speculators, however since the new year it has exploded. You hear less about people producing items, starting online stores, or engaging in a more tangible economy. They are there and will continue to come into the fold (In my opinion).
To my mind speculation is just another iteration of the bitcoin story. It shows that btc is expanding into new markets and mindsets. Next could be the remittance market. That will bring a new subset of peers and new challenges. This experiment is just getting started.   

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

I see what your saying. But a few things. The speculation is a relatively recent phenomena in bitcoin. There were always speculators, however since the new year it has exploded. You hear less about people producing items, starting online stores, or engaging in a more tangible economy. They are there and will continue to come into the fold (In my opinion).

 This experiment is just getting started.  Lets not fuck it up! Lets get it right. Be greedy but also be generous.

If I want to start a bitcoin based store, it requires me to purchase all tangibles in fiat. This only supports the dollar economy.