[Closed] Projects that are using bumping services

[icopress]

Code:

Note: The topic of the conversation is no longer maintained and the archived version of the OP has been moved to post #44

[Welsh]

If you see a thread that offers bonuses to it's members for posting in their thread, effectively bumping it then you can report it to the mods. They'll have their thread removed, and likely their accounts banned. If you want to you can always leave negative trust with archive evidence.

But, they'll likely be banned anyway.

[Lauda]

• It would be ideal to reach a consensus on how to cope with this problem.

From the user's side: Neg. rate the provider and everyone involved.
From the forum's side: Ban all accounts involved.

[Fantus]

Hi Guys,

surly, this is not a good situation and i agree that this far from being perfect, for known reasons.

Anyway, i would like to put something else on the table:

Is requiring people to post in a thread the progress of their "sharing" not the same, if it is a requirement to get their bounty "reward" aka get the payment?
If so you would need to ban nearly all threads regarding to bounties.

just a thought ...

• It would be ideal to reach a consensus on how to cope with this problem.

totally agree and would welcome any further discussion on this

[Welsh]

As far as I'm aware it's only when they are offering a bonus to post on their thread. Also, if posting an address isn't required then that's also a reportable offense. Stricter rules or more restrictions need to be brought in though. I'm not sure what the solution would be to prevent this, but it would be nice if the community could discuss and come up with some solutions.

[Lauda]

There's also this:

Account stats
Post your stats in our bitcointalk Bounty Topic and earn twice the stakes!
Below you find a prepared post with your stats:

 Do not post your stats more than once per day

It seems like you get twice the payment if you spam the forum. I think it is time to start tagging the participants too. What do you think Welsh?

[Fantus]

How does that differ from the requirement to post your stats? Require posting your stats to get a payment does exactly the same, its attention is to get as most as possible attention. Same for ANN threads as a lot bounty programs require people to post in their ANN thread (again to get their payment). We do not require this we just encourage people and of course we are interested in discussion and not in spam!

We at copytrack developed a more advanced system that does not require people to post their stats and fill it up with spam. However our intention to change the "tradition", did not work out as we just stand no chance against the "old traditional" threads.

If you take a look at nearly any of the bounty threads they are full practical unneeded stats posts. We think any company that holds and ico should have the resource and knowledge to provide a system that would not require the need of posting the stats here.
However they simply dont want to as they do want the same attention as the "old traditional" bounties.

I think disallowing stats post would already reduce a lot of spam.

Also if i compare the "quality" ANN thread of copytrack with other ones i do not see much difference. They are all far away from real discussions.


I would love to see the spam reduced in this forum, if we come up with a solution here we will be the first to adapted to what ever conclusion we come here

[Lauda]

How does that differ from the requirement to post your stats? Require posting your stats to get a payment does exactly the same, its attention is to get as most as possible attention.

Completely wrong. Posting your submissions in the thread to apply for a bounty =/= posting your stats in the thread to receive a bonus.

-snip-

You, at Copytrack, need to terminate the spam incentive. Pending further discussion[1] and evaluation, I will likely tag every single account that did this.
Still waiting for some reasonable input. @shitposters and bounty farmers: Go away.

[Fantus]

Completely wrong. Posting your submissions in the thread to apply for a bounty =/= posting your stats in the thread to receive a bonus.

So if we remove the "bonus" than it would be again ok? Sorry i dont get it. We could also require people to post their "submissions" even if this is not necessary, but this would again result in unneeded spam which we try to avoid.  Also like i said their are a lot of bounty programs that require you to post in theire ann thread to get the "bonus/bounty".

You, at Copytrack, need to terminate the spam incentive. Pending further discussion[1] and evaluation, I will likely tag every single account that did this.

I just added a hint to our program that we dont will not tolerate spam. It will take a moment to also implement this into our system but we will do our best to improve the quality of the posts.

[Lauda]

So if we remove the "bonus" than it would be again ok? Sorry i dont get it.

Optimally, you'd remove both the bonus and keep submissions out of Bitcointalk (e.g. Google forms or a dedicated platform). However, keep in mind that shitposters will still probably make occasional submissions via the thread (based on my experience). You can ignore those. If your thread isn't as active, then you can bump it once per 24 hours.

Also like i said their are a lot of bounty programs that require you to post in theire ann thread to get the "bonus/bounty".

Then they need to be tackled as well. If you know any, feel free to report them in this section.

You, at Copytrack, need to terminate the spam incentive. Pending further discussion[1] and evaluation, I will likely tag every single account that did this.

I just added a hint to our program that we dont will not tolerate spam. It will take a moment to also implement this into our system but we will do our best to improve the quality of the posts.

We shall see.

[Fantus]

So if we remove the "bonus" than it would be again ok? Sorry i dont get it.

Optimally, you'd remove both the bonus and keep submissions out of Bitcointalk (e.g. Google forms or a dedicated platform). However, keep in mind that shitposters will still probably make occasional submissions via the thread (based on my experience). You can ignore those. If your thread isn't as active, then you can bump it once per 24 hours.

Well then we will consider to remove the bonus (would love to hear to opinion of more people before we take action). Regarding the submissions, why should we remove also the post of "submissions", as this seems not to violating the rules right or is at least "best practice"?

Also like i said their are a lot of bounty programs that require you to post in theire ann thread to get the "bonus/bounty".

Then they need to be tackled as well. If you know any, feel free to report them in this section.

Saw a few right now on the first page in the bounty board.


Summing this up till here:

• giving a bonus to encourage posting in your own thread is not allowed
• require your participants spamming the threads with submissions is totally valid
• require people to post in certain threads is not allowed but widely ignored

did i missed something?

[ibminer]

I'd think offering an additional bonus to post in the ANN thread would fall into the category of an ICO bumping scheme, which is close enough to an ICO bumping service and is equally as shady and untrustworthy when you are at a forum where bumping more than once every 24 hours is not allowed. Incentivizing or paying someone to bump your thread is not something that has been allowed in the past and I doubt will be allowed in the future.

Most giveaway threads are no longer allowed in the Alternate cryptocurrencies sections. From now on, posting or replying to such threads could result in being banned. Existing threads will be locked.

Specifically, you are not allowed to give people any incentive to post insubstantial posts in your threads. You can't offer to pay people who post their addresses, usernames, etc. You can do giveaways off-site and link to the giveaway page in a thread, but you can't give people any bonus for replying to your thread.

Similar threads are already restricted to Games and Rounds in the non-altcoin sections, but the giveaway-related post volume is so high in the altcoin sections that I've decided to just ban them entirely here.

[Fantus]

right, so we disabled/removed to bonus from our signature campaign.

We tried a new different way for the signature campaign and we should have read the rules more closely. My apologies for this.


Anyway i like to further discus the remaining open questions.

[Lauda]

Well then we will consider to remove the bonus (would love to hear to opinion of more people before we take action). Regarding the submissions, why should we remove also the post of "submissions", as this seems not to violating the rules right or is at least "best practice"?

I used the word optimally exactly because it isn't against the rules. It helps avoid unnecessary spam and it's actually easier to track of (Google forms and sheets).

Saw a few right now on the first page in the bounty board.

I don't spend my day watching a trashcan.

giving a bonus to encourage posting in your own thread is not allowed

Correct.

require your participants spamming the threads with submissions is totally valid

Correct, unfortunately.

require people to post in certain threads is not allowed but widely ignored

Correct.

I'd think offering an additional bonus to post in the ANN thread would fall into the category of an ICO bumping scheme, which is close enough to an ICO bumping service and is equally as shady and untrustworthy when you are at a forum where bumping more than once every 24 hours is not allowed. Incentivizing or paying someone to bump your thread is not something that has been allowed in the past and I doubt will be allowed in the future.

Most giveaway threads are no longer allowed in the Alternate cryptocurrencies sections. From now on, posting or replying to such threads could result in being banned. Existing threads will be locked.

Specifically, you are not allowed to give people any incentive to post insubstantial posts in your threads. You can't offer to pay people who post their addresses, usernames, etc. You can do giveaways off-site and link to the giveaway page in a thread, but you can't give people any bonus for replying to your thread.

Similar threads are already restricted to Games and Rounds in the non-altcoin sections, but the giveaway-related post volume is so high in the altcoin sections that I've decided to just ban them entirely here.

Great find. Someone really needs to make a summary of his posts in a single thread for easy referencing.

Anyway i like to further discus the remaining open questions.

Which are?

[Fantus]

Anyway i like to further discus the remaining open questions.

Which are?

How to face the spam with all these progress posts for example?
Form my point as a dev they are totally useless and unneeded they only have one purpose, drawing attention so why not try get rid of the them?

[Lauda]

Anyway i like to further discus the remaining open questions.

Which are?

How to face the spam with all these progress posts for example?
Form my point as a dev they are totally useless and unneeded they only have one purpose, drawing attention so why not try get rid of the them?

On what scale? Your project or forum wide? For the project you can: a) Do external submissions as I've pointed out. b) Run self-moderated threads. For the latter, I don't have anything to say. It's been an on-going battle for years, with less and less proper action from the forum administration.

[Fantus]

On what scale? Your project or forum wide? For the project you can: a) Do external submissions as I've pointed out. b) Run self-moderated threads. For the latter, I don't have anything to say. It's been an on-going battle for years, with less and less proper action from the forum administration.

of course forum wide anything else would be nonsense. Like i pointed out i would expect from any ico team that they do have the resource to provide an external system where you can report your stats or like we make it simply unnecessary.

So it would make the life of admins easier if progress posts would be banned completely right?

[Lauda]

On what scale? Your project or forum wide? For the project you can: a) Do external submissions as I've pointed out. b) Run self-moderated threads. For the latter, I don't have anything to say. It's been an on-going battle for years, with less and less proper action from the forum administration.

of course forum wide anything else would be nonsense. Like i pointed out i would expect from any ico team that they do have the resource to provide an external system where you can report your stats or like we make it simply unnecessary.

Then this discussion isn't properly located. There have been countless threads discussing this and they were somewhat easy to find until this recent spam about the merit system (hundreds of threads; most of them are useless). You should do some research and find the old threads if those discussions really interest you. This section is what you're looking for: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=24.0.

So it would make the life of admins easier if progress posts would be banned completely right?

Correct. So would explicitly banning account sales, account farming et. al.
We should really avoid discussing this here as we are moving away from the main topic.

[Fantus]

We should really avoid discussing this here as we are moving away from the main topic.

I think the progress posts fall exactly under this topic as they do "Making Fake Noise"

Anyway we admitted making a mistake here and removed the double bonus. Whats left here to discus if not all kinds of "ICO Bumping"?

[pokxon]

I'm sorry. I registered the Signature campaign unintentionally, though I'm just a Newbie.