How to make a cutting edge custom mining rig

[Ericgw]

Hello everyone,

I am new to mining and have noticed from various threads that it seems difficult to generate a profit unless there is a very specific advantage to the mining farm.  I am now doing research to figure out how best to make a custom rig to be ahead of the curve.  Anyone have good experience with this??

It seems that many people factor in the common expenses such as:
1.  Cost of machine
2.  Electricity

And that most people do not factor in other important expenses such as:
3.  Replacing machine in approx 12 months when newer technology and mining difficulty increases make it redundant
4.  Late arrival of equipment; if the 'newest best rig' doesn't arrive until after 6 months then only approx 6 months remain of profitability instead of 12
5.  Mining difficulty increases effect on profit over time, decreasing on-going
6.  Management of equipment and facility  (time is $$$)
7.  Security (time is $$$)
8.  Storage of equipment (if not running in your basement at home that is)


With the expenses 3-8 above factored in, mining profitably seems difficult.  It leads me to researching how to engineer a custom rig to give me an advantage.

Has anyone done something like this before??

[1714164817]

1714164817

[1714164817]

1714164817

[1714164817]

1714164817

[1714164817]

1714164817

[1714164817]

1714164817

[NotFuzzyWarm]

For a start - learn what the actual coins are and post in the correct section. This is the BITCOIN hardware section where you posted and that means only ASIC-based miners which are not DIY items. Bet the mods are gonna move it.

You want the altcoin mining area - those use CPU/CPU-based miners.

[Ericgw]

For a start - learn what the actual coins are and post in the correct section. This is the BITCOIN hardware section where you posted and that means only ASIC-based miners which are not DIY items. Bet the mods are gonna move it.

You want the altcoin mining area - those use CPU/CPU-based miners.

I see, ok thank you.  My mistake I suppose.

I had thought though that the question was valid to Bitcoin mining as well.  I thought custom rigs could be created for Bitcoin as well, is this not so?

[wavelengthsf]

For a start - learn what the actual coins are and post in the correct section. This is the BITCOIN hardware section where you posted and that means only ASIC-based miners which are not DIY items. Bet the mods are gonna move it.

You want the altcoin mining area - those use CPU/CPU-based miners.

I see, ok thank you.  My mistake I suppose.

I had thought though that the question was valid to Bitcoin mining as well.  I thought custom rigs could be created for Bitcoin as well, is this not so?

Nope - the days of GPU mining Bitcoin are long gone. The only way to be competitive are with specialized machines that can only do Bitcoin mining - these are composed of hundreds of ASIC chips and can only do SHA-256 hashing.

[sidehack]

It's still technically possible, but not if you're building with off-the-shelf parts.

[Ericgw]

It's still technically possible, but not if you're building with off-the-shelf parts.

Ok thanks guys.

I'll post in the alt's section for non bitcoin related rigs.

Keeping on subject with bitcoin related rigs though, my interest is still present.  I'm trying to discern what size and scope of a farm is required in order to be profitable at this point in the game.  I'm doing research into geographic location for spacing/labour/electrical costs/taxation, recruiting a team to develop custom rigs and generally trying to peg down a realistic income statement draft and up front costs requirement budget.

Has anyone gone through this process either theoretically or with your own farm(s)??

[sidehack]

If you're wanting to build your own miners for BTC, you're either gonna have to go to an existing manufacturer like Bitfury with at least $1M for an order of their ASICs, or come to an existing IC developer with about $10M (and around six months) to run you out your own custom design. Unfortunately the only "realistic" course - unless you have a whole lot of money you're willing to risk losing entirely - is to buy existing miners from someone else.

[Ericgw]

If you're wanting to build your own miners for BTC, you're either gonna have to go to an existing manufacturer like Bitfury with at least $1M for an order of their ASICs, or come to an existing IC developer with about $10M (and around six months) to run you out your own custom design. Unfortunately the only "realistic" course - unless you have a whole lot of money you're willing to risk losing entirely - is to buy existing miners from someone else.

Interesting, ok great feedback thank you.

I'm not opposed to these options so long as profitability looks reasonably positive.  I would prefer though to star with a smaller operation to test things out first, which leads to the "buy existing miners" option, however each time I do profit/loss analysis I seem to come up negative due to the reasons I listed above for this topic.

Have you purchased some existing miners before and came out profitable despite the list of expense items I listed above?

[NotFuzzyWarm]

If you're wanting to build your own miners for BTC, you're either gonna have to go to an existing manufacturer like Bitfury with at least $1M for an order of their ASICs, or come to an existing IC developer with about $10M (and around six months) to run you out your own custom design. Unfortunately the only "realistic" course - unless you have a whole lot of money you're willing to risk losing entirely - is to buy existing miners from someone else.

Interesting, ok great feedback thank you.

I'm not opposed to these options so long as profitability looks reasonably positive.  I would prefer though to star with a smaller operation to test things out first, which leads to the "buy existing miners" option, however each time I do profit/loss analysis I seem to come up negative due to the reasons I listed above for this topic.

Have you purchased some existing miners before and came out profitable despite the list of expense items I listed above?

Of course. We are not doing this just for kicks... Currently running a bit over 240THs on Kano and that is good for around 2BTC/month gross income.

No matter what coin you are mining it all boils down to just 3 things:
1.Cost of your electricity.
2 & 3.Cost of what it takes to deal with the heat and noise.

As long as income exceeds cost of those 3 things - mine on.

[sidehack]

I myself don't mine all that much. I started out with a 10GH AM Blade back in September 2013 and, with reinvestment and ingenuity, turned it into about a 2TH operation by the following April. After proving I could make a whole lot of something from practically nothing, I shifted more to collecting - buying one of something new just so I could play with it, not necessarily to mine.

Right now I'm running a 100KW datacenter entirely used for hosting other people's stuff. I have I think two of my own miners running right now, but that's only because they're being tested out after a voltage hack (for the record, they're NotFuzzy's retirees). I did all the datacenter's electric install on my own, built the network infrastructure and shelving and whatever else. If I do the work myself I don't end up paying someone else a heck of a lot more than I think it's worth which saves a lot on initial costs, and I don't have to second-guess anyone that it's getting done right.

Most of my business (hosting just pays the shop's rent) is actually designing and manufacturing small-scale miners. I've put out a couple USB sticks, am inches away from a ~60W quiet home miner and an updated version of that (with better chips sourced from Bitfury) should also turn into a 4TH/450W retrofit kit for an older Bitmain series chassis.

With a well-made miner, and note that very few are up to my standards these days, you can adjust the chips' operating point for increased efficiency (at a decreased hashrate of course). This can extend the viable life of a miner substantially - for reference, the two miners mentioned above are 45-chip S7s, which stock at about 4.7TH for 1400W or about 0.3J/GH; I have them running at 3.7TH at 880W off 120VAC (not as efficient as 208/240V), a shade below 0.24J/GH and a heck of a lot quieter. A lot of machines don't let you make adjustments like that, which is basically total BS.

Late arrival of a rig is a consequence of ordering from a shady manufacturer. Never ever pay into a company without a proven design. If you're buying a thing "six months out" you're more than likely buying from someone who will pocket your money and vanish into the wind.

A lot of profitability will depend on your electric cost. That's likely going to be the single largest factor for financial feasibility.

[philipma1957]

gear that does not break..

s-9's on paper kill the avalon 741's

but  in reality s-9's break  a lot avalon 741's don't break too often

so the s-9 is close to the avalon  741 instead of crushing it.

[Ericgw]

If you're wanting to build your own miners for BTC, you're either gonna have to go to an existing manufacturer like Bitfury with at least $1M for an order of their ASICs, or come to an existing IC developer with about $10M (and around six months) to run you out your own custom design. Unfortunately the only "realistic" course - unless you have a whole lot of money you're willing to risk losing entirely - is to buy existing miners from someone else.

Interesting, ok great feedback thank you.

I'm not opposed to these options so long as profitability looks reasonably positive.  I would prefer though to star with a smaller operation to test things out first, which leads to the "buy existing miners" option, however each time I do profit/loss analysis I seem to come up negative due to the reasons I listed above for this topic.

Have you purchased some existing miners before and came out profitable despite the list of expense items I listed above?

Of course. We are not doing this just for kicks... Currently running 240THs on Kano and that is good for around 2BTC/month.

No matter what coin you are mining it all boils down to just 3 things:
1.Cost of your electricity.
2 & 3.Cost of what it takes to deal with the heat and noise.

As long as income exceeds cost of those 3 things - mine on.

Thank you for helping, I'm grateful to be chatting with people actually doing mining

Have you found that you were able to remain profitable regardless of mining difficulty increases?

How long have you found your rigs remain profitable before they are surpassed by superior technology?  6mths?  12mths?  More?  Less?

Have you factored in labour time requirements for this or has this not been physically included in the expenses section of COGS?

[philipma1957]

If you're wanting to build your own miners for BTC, you're either gonna have to go to an existing manufacturer like Bitfury with at least $1M for an order of their ASICs, or come to an existing IC developer with about $10M (and around six months) to run you out your own custom design. Unfortunately the only "realistic" course - unless you have a whole lot of money you're willing to risk losing entirely - is to buy existing miners from someone else.

Interesting, ok great feedback thank you.

I'm not opposed to these options so long as profitability looks reasonably positive.  I would prefer though to star with a smaller operation to test things out first, which leads to the "buy existing miners" option, however each time I do profit/loss analysis I seem to come up negative due to the reasons I listed above for this topic.

Have you purchased some existing miners before and came out profitable despite the list of expense items I listed above?

Of course. We are not doing this just for kicks... Currently running 240THs on Kano and that is good for around 2BTC/month.

No matter what coin you are mining it all boils down to just 3 things:
1.Cost of your electricity.
2 & 3.Cost of what it takes to deal with the heat and noise.

As long as income exceeds cost of those 3 things - mine on.

Thank you for helping, I'm grateful to be chatting with people actually doing mining

Have you found that you were able to remain profitable regardless of mining difficulty increases?

yes but I sell and upgrade

How long have you found your rigs remain profitable before they are surpassed by superior technology?  6mths?  12mths?  More?  Less?

with asics  6months was true then 9 months was true.  now the s-9  which is state of the art for power efficiency  it has been out since June of 2016  so that is 16 months with no better gear available.  if it did not break a lot I would have made 25% more profit  over the last 16 months but I did make profit and continue to make profit with it.

I have a mix of:

avalon 721
avalon 741
bitmain s-9's

I also have quite a few gpu rigs.



Have you factored in labour time requirements for this or has this not been physically included in the expenses section of COGS?

I am retired I have about 30k in gear it takes up time but  I have time so I do not factor in my time costs.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

<snip>
Thank you for helping, I'm grateful to be chatting with people actually doing mining
Have you found that you were able to remain profitable regardless of mining difficulty increases?

How long have you found your rigs remain profitable before they are surpassed by superior technology?  6mths?  12mths?  More?  Less?

Have you factored in labour time requirements for this or has this not been physically included in the expenses section of COGS?

Yes. Only key there is that when more efficient miners are eventually available, start upgrading using farm income. The fact that the BTC to $ exchange rate continues overall to track with diff certainly helps as well.

Time between miner models is strictly set by what the semiconductor industry can provide. So far even more than 2 years after 16nm video cards and CPU's started shipping at all they are *still* tweaking the 14/16nm nodes. Bitmain released the s9 (16nm) in early 2016. My crystal ball says miners will remain at 14/16nm for at least another year, probably more.

Labor? 25-30 miners does not take up much space, time involved is mostly unboxing and a few min to plug in/setup each one.

since you are rightly taking a Business approach, check what your countries tax code says regarding business equipment write-offs.... in the US especially, check out Section179.org. A licensed small business can write off up to $500k this year The IRS has already issued Guidance on miners and treat mining hardware the same as any other computer device needed for your business.

Also, here mining income is treated the same as the Metals market - taxes are only applied to coins (or metals holdings or real metal actually mined from the ground) when they are converted to fiat, in this case US$. So, you can hold and accumulate coins as long as you want with (so far) zero tax liability and the Taxman only wants his cut when you cash out.

[philipma1957]

<snip>
Thank you for helping, I'm grateful to be chatting with people actually doing mining
Have you found that you were able to remain profitable regardless of mining difficulty increases?

How long have you found your rigs remain profitable before they are surpassed by superior technology?  6mths?  12mths?  More?  Less?

Have you factored in labour time requirements for this or has this not been physically included in the expenses section of COGS?

Yes. Only key there is that when more efficient miners are eventually available, start upgrading using farm income.

Time between miner models is strictly set by what the semiconductor industry can provide. So far even more than 2 years after 16nm video cards started shipping at all they are *still* tweaking the 14/16nm nodes. Bitmain released the s9 (16nm) in early 2016. My crystal ball says miners will remain at 14/16nm for at least another year, probably more.

Labor? 25-30 miners does not take up much space, time involved is mostly unboxing and a few min to plug in/setup each one.

I just set up 3 avalon 741's and ordered 3 s-9's

we should be doing the next solar array and I want ready made gear to go on site.

we will be over 100th soon plus the gpus'

90+18+14+7 = 129th for btc

14000 sols for zec

[synthlock]

I actually have a small mining rig running on an off-grid solar system right now. Feels good not impacting my electricity bill, since it's expensive where I live ($0.23+/kwH).

[QuintLeo]

Hello everyone,

And that most people do not factor in other important expenses such as:
3.  Replacing machine in approx 12 months when newer technology and mining difficulty increases make it redundant

 More like 2 years RIGHT NOW, and ballpark 4-6 years AT WORST after that.

 The days of "new miner tech with major upgrade in efficiency every 6-10 months" DIED when the S9 was released on the CURRENT STATE OF THE ART SEMICONDUCTOR PROCESS NODE.

 Mining now has to wait for NEW nodes to see significantly higher efficiency, just like the rest of the semiconductor world.

 Labor? If you can't run 30 machines yourself, you shouldn't be running a farm.
 Takes me perhaps an hour MAX per day to keep my farm up - and I'm IN that ballpark on rigs.


 Per sidehacks comments about voltage adjustability - pretty much died with the Spondoolies SP20, when almost everyone finally followed BitFury's lead into "string" designs to drop the cost of the miner (at the cost of adjustability).
 IN THEORY it's possible to run a string off of a buck, but I don't know if anyone current other than Innosilicon does so (and I'm not sure if THEY do so in the A4 or A5 or upcomming A4+).

[Ericgw]

Hello everyone,

And that most people do not factor in other important expenses such as:
3.  Replacing machine in approx 12 months when newer technology and mining difficulty increases make it redundant

 More like 2 years RIGHT NOW, and ballpark 4-6 years AT WORST after that.

 The days of "new miner tech with major upgrade in efficiency every 6-10 months" DIED when the S9 was released on the CURRENT STATE OF THE ART SEMICONDUCTOR PROCESS NODE.

 Mining now has to wait for NEW nodes to see significantly higher efficiency, just like the rest of the semiconductor world.

 Labor? If you can't run 30 machines yourself, you shouldn't be running a farm.
 Takes me perhaps an hour MAX per day to keep my farm up - and I'm IN that ballpark on rigs.


 Per sidehacks comments about voltage adjustability - pretty much died with the Spondoolies SP20, when almost everyone finally followed BitFury's lead into "string" designs to drop the cost of the miner (at the cost of adjustability).
 IN THEORY it's possible to run a string off of a buck, but I don't know if anyone current other than Innosilicon does so (and I'm not sure if THEY do so in the A4 or A5 or upcomming A4+).

Great info, thank you very much