SANDSTORM: - A Collective Investment Vehicle for BTC. -

[canth]

Why is this IPO live, and why are people paying 20x more than it's worth. Wake up people.

I've been announcing this IPO over the last week. "why are people paying 20x more than it's worth?" i have no idea.

It's OK, the people who are dumb enough to invest into this "investment vehicle" is dumb enough to to pay 20x IPO.

Hopefully this will dissuade people from investing without doing due diligence.

I can't take responsibility for other people actions. But I think saying that people are dumb to invest in Sandstorm is very unfair. I've been working hard on making profits for the early adopters over the last 6 weeks. If you'd follow this thread before all this happened you'd see that I've made legitimate trade decisions to increase the value of the Sandstorm units. Just not to the order of 20x.

The only way from here is forward. I'm sorry to anyone that made an error in judgement when buying units.

No need to apologize.  It was right there, black and white, what the offering price was at.  You have no control over the idiots who are about to have their asses handed to them.  I'm heavily interested in doing an investment, but not at these prices.  I'll wait for it to come down to the initial price (which it will) and then I'll jump in.

and then will you sell to idiots for 25% profit, or more?

The price will eventually settle down once the initial frenzy dies. I imagine that any future shares will be sold near the recent trading price, once that's established.

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[felente]

nay-nay... not good to publish 19.000 shares with a limit of 10.000 pro person.

in the fact, IPO was sold out not only in 5 seconds but in 8-9 orders - one was for 10k - almost the whole initial offer...
correct me if im wrong.

so who wonders why price is(was) driven high?

sure price will settle down, but literally 5-6 people have made 20x profit in seconds and the rest - lost the same
brain is a good thing to have, lol

[MrBubbles007]

nay-nay... not good to publish 19.000 shares with a limit of 10.000 pro person.

in the fact, IPO was sold out not only in 5 seconds but in 8-9 orders - one was for 10k - almost the whole initial offer...
correct me if im wrong.

so who wonders why price is(was) driven high?

sure price will settle down, but literally 5-6 people have made 20x profit in seconds and the rest - lost the same
brain is a good thing to have, lol

exactly, this whole thing kinda went to shit, I would say some more IPO offerings will need to happen...with better limitations, etc. But idiots will still trade at a much higher amount and people will keep buying them to loose their money

[alexius89]

nay-nay... not good to publish 19.000 shares with a limit of 10.000 pro person.

in the fact, IPO was sold out not only in 5 seconds but in 8-9 orders - one was for 10k - almost the whole initial offer...
correct me if im wrong.

so who wonders why price is(was) driven high?

sure price will settle down, but literally 5-6 people have made 20x profit in seconds and the rest - lost the same
brain is a good thing to have, lol

exactly, this whole thing kinda went to shit, I would say some more IPO offerings will need to happen...with better limitations, etc. But idiots will still trade at a much higher amount and people will keep buying them to loose their money

+1   yea  another 100.000 of share should be available at 0,001 with a limit of 2000 or sth. per Person

[San1ty]

Yup this IPO was utter BS. Was online at the exact right time and it was instantly sold out (couldn't buy 1 share).
And now there are idiots paying 20x the IPO value, wow...

[vokain]

Scam.

[Smidge]

The IPO process is a bunch of bs. There should be a max number of shares per account if demand is that high. It's just unfair if the amount of shares you get depends on how often you hit F5...

A regular IPO process lets you buy as many shares you want before it goes live. Before the official listing, you get the PERCENTAGE of the shares you bought before vs. the number of shares available. That way, the issuer can even adjust the number of shares beforehand.

(repost from reddit)

Scam.

+1

[vokain]

or just don't participate in this shady scheme

[Smidge]

or just don't participate in this shady scheme

That's not the solution. It's about getting the standard processes right for future IPOs. And it's about building trust for the community to invest in securities safely.

I would have bought a ton of shares, but had no chance. No way I'm buying this particular one post-IPO, that's why the IPO was important for me.

[freedomno1]

Well I also do a lot of trading so this is interesting since you listed in Havelock I will have to believe LB cough I meant havelock on this one and give you a chance hes pretty observant on his listings
Best of luck I can use you as my index
See if I beat the index in any given week and get a bit of capital back  

Congrats on your IPO selling out in less than a minute too shoot darn napping on the ball to self well +1 BTC I'll play with the idiots and just use profit from the retardness level rising till I lose the profit and have whats left shares at fair market value and whatever I made from just using the profits from the silly trades

But Hot Dang kicked some aussie arse there I applaud you again and am scared now at the market will wait patiently for what you said is Fair Value and just arbitrage accumulated profit till logic kicks in and yes I will take the risk I am doing diligence and well mumbles if the market wants to do what it does lets it this will be a hard lesson for those who don't pay attention markets are rational, when people do their due diligence but before that kicks in its madness

Anyways I have just one more thing to say
Idiots with money are a guilt free opportunity  

Edited in
I read through the thread 10 pages is not much to read through compared to some threads ^^
Anyways I would put the dead man switch info on page 1 that's about it
Best of Luck looks fair enough in retrospect your IPO is the most profitable tip of the week

LB: Secret ninja  

[havelock]

Hello all,

I thought I'd address some of the issues brought up here.

1. "It's a scam":  The bitcoin community relies heavily on trust and we try to be as transparent as possible, as well as try to have our listing companies be as transparent as possible.  So far I have not seen any evidence of Sandstorm being dishonest.  Ultimately it's up to you as an investor to decide if the risk of purchasing any shares in any listing is worth the reward.

2.  "IPO sold out too fast/weren't enough shares": Sandstorm only released a limited number of shares because that represents the number of shares on which Sandstorm decided it can return a attractive dividend based on the assets it currently manages.  They could have released more shares but this would dilute existing investors' holdings/return on investment, which would have been not in the investors best interests.   

3. "The price is too high": I can't speak as to why an investor would pay X price for a share. It's up to each investor to determine at what price they believe a share should be worth and trade accordingly.  If you feel something is overpriced, then you do not need to purchase it (and I've seen numerous people post this sentiment as well).

All that being said, we're always open to suggestions to improve the IPO process and improve Havelock in general.  One option we can consider is limit the maximum number of units per person during an IPO based on a percentage of the units being released.  IE person A can only purchase 10% of the units at a time.  If anyone else has thoughts on how to improve the process, pleases let us know either here on bitcointalk.org or contact us at info@havelockinvestments.com.

It's an exciting time in the bitcoin world and the interest in Sandstorm shows that the community cares a lot.   

Thanks,
Mitchell

[San1ty]

Hello all,

I thought I'd address some of the issues brought up here.

1. "It's a scam":  The bitcoin community relies heavily on trust and we try to be as transparent as possible, as well as try to have our listing companies be as transparent as possible.  So far I have not seen any evidence of Sandstorm being dishonest.  Ultimately it's up to you as an investor to decide if the risk of purchasing any shares in any listing is worth the reward.

2.  "IPO sold out too fast/weren't enough shares": Sandstorm only released a limited number of shares because that represents the number of shares on which Sandstorm decided it can return a attractive dividend based on the assets it currently manages.  They could have released more shares but this would dilute existing investors' holdings/return on investment, which would have been not in the investors best interests.   

3. "The price is too high": I can't speak as to why an investor would pay X price for a share. It's up to each investor to determine at what price they believe a share should be worth and trade accordingly.  If you feel something is overpriced, then you do not need to purchase it (and I've seen numerous people post this sentiment as well).

All that being said, we're always open to suggestions to improve the IPO process and improve Havelock in general.  One option we can consider is limit the maximum number of units per person during an IPO based on a percentage of the units being released.  IE person A can only purchase 10% of the units at a time.  If anyone else has thoughts on how to improve the process, pleases let us know either here on bitcointalk.org or contact us at info@havelockinvestments.com.

It's an exciting time in the bitcoin world and the interest in Sandstorm shows that the community cares a lot.   

Thanks,
Mitchell

Hi Havelock is great! I think the biggest complaint here is that one person bought almost all shares. There should be a limit to how many shares one person can buy during an IPO.

[keymone]

Sandstorm only released a limited number of shares because

Hi Mitchell,

i think the issue is not that there were not enough shares but that it was possible to a person with 2 accounts without too much efforts to buy out everything and then speculate by being 100% shareholder on havelock

why weren't there some tighter restrictions as to how many shares one account is allowed to buy?

[vokain]

why should there be a limit? the guy beat you to providing capital for SANDSTORM's "collective investment vehicle". should he not get to assume all that comes with it? it should make no difference to the owner of SANDSTORM who just needs an x amount of anyone's bitcoins to "create wealth through BTC related activities for a long time". lol

all a limit does is increase the probability you guys will be set up for a ponzi since whales kill how ponzis propogate..but so few of you have any experience in knowing how they're set up anyways. Oh well, live and let live. I will leave this here so I don't feel bad about not warning you guys enough.
First-Hand telling of an online Ponzi: Eve Online's Currin Trading

Also, I will be watching these securities very very closely to see if i can short these when excitement peaks again

[freedomno1]

Hello all,

I thought I'd address some of the issues brought up here.

1. "It's a scam":  The bitcoin community relies heavily on trust and we try to be as transparent as possible, as well as try to have our listing companies be as transparent as possible.  So far I have not seen any evidence of Sandstorm being dishonest.  Ultimately it's up to you as an investor to decide if the risk of purchasing any shares in any listing is worth the reward.

2.  "IPO sold out too fast/weren't enough shares": Sandstorm only released a limited number of shares because that represents the number of shares on which Sandstorm decided it can return a attractive dividend based on the assets it currently manages.  They could have released more shares but this would dilute existing investors' holdings/return on investment, which would have been not in the investors best interests.    

3. "The price is too high": I can't speak as to why an investor would pay X price for a share. It's up to each investor to determine at what price they believe a share should be worth and trade accordingly.  If you feel something is overpriced, then you do not need to purchase it (and I've seen numerous people post this sentiment as well).

All that being said, we're always open to suggestions to improve the IPO process and improve Havelock in general.  One option we can consider is limit the maximum number of units per person during an IPO based on a percentage of the units being released.  IE person A can only purchase 10% of the units at a time.  If anyone else has thoughts on how to improve the process, pleases let us know either here on bitcointalk.org or contact us at info@havelockinvestments.com.

It's an exciting time in the bitcoin world and the interest in Sandstorm shows that the community cares a lot.  

Thanks,
Mitchell

Mitchell not James??

That aside I'll throw a quick one in there on this IPO, I did not see a notice in the Browse IPO's dashboard or maybe I haven't observed it in detail a function that announces such listings would be handy.
Such as a page announcement well before the release
Another issue I have is that while the ASICminer whole share passthru was announced on the main page no infromation was made available regarding the Sandstorm IPO and notice given besides this forum thread I would like to see the front page updated and this sort of information made more obvious on release
https://www.havelockinvestments.com/index.php

That said I appreciate your work and am glad to see the team is growing
My regards to you Mitchell its a pleasure to see a new face and always my top regards to James
Freedom

[havelock]

Sandstorm only released a limited number of shares because

Hi Mitchell,

i think the issue is not that there were not enough shares but that it was possible to a person with 2 accounts without too much efforts to buy out everything and then speculate by being 100% shareholder on havelock

why weren't there some tighter restrictions as to how many shares one account is allowed to buy?

Hi, putting a limit of the number of units per person during an IPO is something we'll be taking a look at.  "One option we can consider is limit the maximum number of units per person during an IPO based on a percentage of the units being released.  IE person A can only purchase 10% of the units at a time."  Thanks for your input.

[havelock]

Hello all,

I thought I'd address some of the issues brought up here.

1. "It's a scam":  The bitcoin community relies heavily on trust and we try to be as transparent as possible, as well as try to have our listing companies be as transparent as possible.  So far I have not seen any evidence of Sandstorm being dishonest.  Ultimately it's up to you as an investor to decide if the risk of purchasing any shares in any listing is worth the reward.

2.  "IPO sold out too fast/weren't enough shares": Sandstorm only released a limited number of shares because that represents the number of shares on which Sandstorm decided it can return a attractive dividend based on the assets it currently manages.  They could have released more shares but this would dilute existing investors' holdings/return on investment, which would have been not in the investors best interests.    

3. "The price is too high": I can't speak as to why an investor would pay X price for a share. It's up to each investor to determine at what price they believe a share should be worth and trade accordingly.  If you feel something is overpriced, then you do not need to purchase it (and I've seen numerous people post this sentiment as well).

All that being said, we're always open to suggestions to improve the IPO process and improve Havelock in general.  One option we can consider is limit the maximum number of units per person during an IPO based on a percentage of the units being released.  IE person A can only purchase 10% of the units at a time.  If anyone else has thoughts on how to improve the process, pleases let us know either here on bitcointalk.org or contact us at info@havelockinvestments.com.

It's an exciting time in the bitcoin world and the interest in Sandstorm shows that the community cares a lot.  

Thanks,
Mitchell

Mitchell not James??

That aside I'll throw a quick one in there on this IPO, I did not see a notice in the Browse IPO's dashboard or maybe I haven't observed it in detail a function that announces such listings would be handy.
Such as a page announcement well before the release
Another issue I have is that while the ASICminer whole share passthru was announced on the main page no infromation was made available regarding the Sandstorm IPO and notice given besides this forum thread I would like to see the front page updated and this sort of information made more obvious on release
https://www.havelockinvestments.com/index.php

That said I appreciate your work and am glad to see the team is growing
My regards to you Mitchell its a pleasure to see a new face and always my top regards to James
Freedom

Thanks for the welcome and both James and myself are excited about growing Havelock.

We did have an email announcement go out regarding Sandstorm but we can definitely look at ways of improving communication, such as posting all upcoming IPOs to the main page.  We'll also be releasing a twitter account which will help provide Havelock-related information.  Thanks for your feedback.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Then someone will simply use two or three or four accounts.

If you're running an exchange, you need to be fair. If someone wants to buy all their shares available, then let them. Do not create artificial limitations.

A better IPO would have been launched in batches anyways.

[freedomno1]

Hello all,

I thought I'd address some of the issues brought up here.

1. "It's a scam":  The bitcoin community relies heavily on trust and we try to be as transparent as possible, as well as try to have our listing companies be as transparent as possible.  So far I have not seen any evidence of Sandstorm being dishonest.  Ultimately it's up to you as an investor to decide if the risk of purchasing any shares in any listing is worth the reward.

2.  "IPO sold out too fast/weren't enough shares": Sandstorm only released a limited number of shares because that represents the number of shares on which Sandstorm decided it can return a attractive dividend based on the assets it currently manages.  They could have released more shares but this would dilute existing investors' holdings/return on investment, which would have been not in the investors best interests.    

3. "The price is too high": I can't speak as to why an investor would pay X price for a share. It's up to each investor to determine at what price they believe a share should be worth and trade accordingly.  If you feel something is overpriced, then you do not need to purchase it (and I've seen numerous people post this sentiment as well).

All that being said, we're always open to suggestions to improve the IPO process and improve Havelock in general.  One option we can consider is limit the maximum number of units per person during an IPO based on a percentage of the units being released.  IE person A can only purchase 10% of the units at a time.  If anyone else has thoughts on how to improve the process, pleases let us know either here on bitcointalk.org or contact us at info@havelockinvestments.com.

It's an exciting time in the bitcoin world and the interest in Sandstorm shows that the community cares a lot.  

Thanks,
Mitchell

Mitchell not James??

That aside I'll throw a quick one in there on this IPO, I did not see a notice in the Browse IPO's dashboard or maybe I haven't observed it in detail a function that announces such listings would be handy.
Such as a page announcement well before the release
Another issue I have is that while the ASICminer whole share passthru was announced on the main page no infromation was made available regarding the Sandstorm IPO and notice given besides this forum thread I would like to see the front page updated and this sort of information made more obvious on release
https://www.havelockinvestments.com/index.php

That said I appreciate your work and am glad to see the team is growing
My regards to you Mitchell its a pleasure to see a new face and always my top regards to James
Freedom

Thanks for the welcome and both James and myself are excited about growing Havelock.

We did have an email announcement go out regarding Sandstorm but we can definitely look at ways of improving communication, such as posting all upcoming IPOs to the main page.  We'll also be releasing a twitter account which will help provide Havelock-related information.  Thanks for your feedback.

Browses email
Blames windows update I forgot to check for a while once it closed my tab panes got to hate those darn resets when you leave the computer for 10 minutes  
Found the e-mail thanks for the fast reply

11/07/2013
A new public offering is NOW AVAILABLE for Sandstorm (SDSTM)
Total Units: 19700
Maximum Units Per User: 10000
Price: 0.00100000BTC/unit

Thank you for investing with Havelock Investments!
https://www.havelockinvestments.com


Two quick questions first regarding the Twitter feed will that be separate from the Canadianbitcoins feed that is being used currently or will both release separate information regarding each.

Second regarding Canbit should the havelock thread or the Canbit thread be used when posting questions guess I'll ask here my query today regarding if any progress has been made since June regarding the KYC documents with any of the Big 5/6
Although thinking about it I don't think National has been used yet
Thanks as always for the fast reply ^^

PS: Regarding Fortresses point that might be a good idea back in the day when S.Dice was released it was bought in IPO's at different prices so a incremental release might work can't recall exactly how it was handled but that was similar to the idea mentioned

[reactor]

The problem in Sandstorm and what we've just seen, while a good model, is a perfect example of the problems inherent in BTC today.  Majority control of assets by a small group of people is the ever-present danger, allowing this to happen on any new investment opportunity further tarnishes what the opportunity *could have been*.  I've got the exact same trading/investment model as Sandstorm (for the most part) and agree it is profitable if done correctly and patiently, however there is no way I'd open it up to an IPO...

Which is why I was looking forward to invest in Sandstorm.  Which is why refreshing to go from No IPO Yet to Sold Out was disheartening a bit (but no major surprise).  Or seeing the initial buys and immediate 20x flip, that was suspect.  And then to get the email at 1:07EST saying "The IPO is live!".  Really?  After it sold out 6:59 ago?  That's bad form, yo.

This was my initial impression of Havelock and I can say I'm not so thrilled about it.  To let them release what amounts to a cash-n-dump IPO, regardless of the potential profitability of Sandstorm (which I think will likely do well if they continue on this model), makes me instantly weary of even following any future IPO or fund announcements until there is a serious reconsideration of how the initial units are sold.  Majority control by the few sucks in ANY market, hell, it's the death knell of BTC and has been since day one.

Btw, to the chap with the Ricky avatar - well played, sir.