SANDSTORM: - A Collective Investment Vehicle for BTC. -

[jmutch]

Weekly Report:

I haven't been able to get this fund onto an exchange as of yet. Burnside has indicated that after operating the fund for awhile he will put it to a vote on btct.co.

For this reason I am the majority shareholder. Only a small amount of shares have been purchased by other people. This week all profits are going to dividends. The dividends that I receive this week will go to next weeks carry over.

Profits
.9BTC from trading AM-PT shares
.42BTC from trading basic shares
.2 from trading AMC shares
 .38BTC from AM share dividends

~1.9BTC gone to dividends

Current Assets

2500 AMC shares bought at @ .0005
48 BTC

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhkfI_u94nYydFRIaTlBNE14aHBZNzIxRlBLWlhzTlE#gid=0

[1714619794]

1714619794

[TadpolesIsAWinner]

Weekly Report:

I haven't been able to get this fund onto an exchange as of yet. Burnside has indicated that after operating the fund for awhile he will put it to a vote on btct.co.

For this reason I am the majority shareholder. Only a small amount of shares have been purchased by other people. This week all profits are going to dividends. The dividends that I receive this week will go to next weeks carry over.

Profits
.9BTC from trading AM-PT shares
.42BTC from trading basic shares
.2 from trading AMC shares
 .38BTC from AM share dividends

~1.9BTC gone to dividends

Current Assets

2500 AMC shares bought at @ .0005
48 BTC

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhkfI_u94nYydFRIaTlBNE14aHBZNzIxRlBLWlhzTlE#gid=0

So 1.9 BTC/40,000 = .0000475 BTC per share dividend (to save people from doing the math).

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Current Assets

2500 AMC shares bought at @ .0005

Kthnxbye.

[BitHub]

Kind of interesting what you're doing, I'm also based in Australia and doing something similar, my fund pulled in "Total Weekly Divs = 2.81010797 BTC" this week so far. I do trading pretty much full time. Would be interested in getting a bunch of us together in the same office or something.

[jmutch]

Current Assets

2500 AMC shares bought at @ .0005

Kthnxbye.

Haha you trader snob! To be honest that is just a quick buck. I have no faith in AMC, it's just a short term opportunity. What's wrong with buying something for .0005 and selling it 3 days later for .0007?

Kind of interesting what you're doing, I'm also based in Australia and doing something similar, my fund pulled in "Total Weekly Divs = 2.81010797 BTC" this week so far. I do trading pretty much full time. Would be interested in getting a bunch of us together in the same office or something.

Interesting idea. Only thing is I imagine overheads would be high. I like your thinking though. Im in Melbourne. Where are you? Ill PM you tomorrow.

Tadpoles, have a look at the google docs for more details.

[BitHub]

come into the #bitcoin-aus channel, we can probably all just work from home using ventrillo or skype or something. in QLD

[alexius89]

Maybe its possible to launch this fund on bitfunder.com ?

[BitHub]

Just confirming that BitHub purchased 1000 shares for 1btc. Please forward Divs to - 1CFzfqdJjn3bjkZTtQdZU9ZCBWjSh2AFPu

[jmutch]

Maybe its possible to launch this fund on bitfunder.com ?

I've been trying to get onto Ukto with not much success. I'm persisting with this at the moment.

Just confirming that BitHub purchased 1000 shares for 1btc. Please forward Divs to - 1CFzfqdJjn3bjkZTtQdZU9ZCBWjSh2AFPu

Cheers Bithub, confirmed, spreadsheet updated. Should be a good week this week. I've been getting on top of the volatility so far

[Ukyo]

Just a quick question for investors.

JMutch (as mentioned in the prior post) has asked me about listing on BitFunder.

Sandstorm having the asset description being what it is, I would like to ask for thoughts, concerns, interests by users to see this listed. (or not..)
And please, fully explain reasoning for not's.

Thanks,
Ukyo

[Peter Lambert]

I don't see this in the OP, maybe you said this somewhere, but what percentage of profits are sent out as dividends?

Also, you do not address when/if/how additional shares will be issued?

[Deprived]

There are two main things which concern me about this :

Sandstorm's Goals:
-Release weekly dividends of at least 1% of the capital gathered from public offerings. This is a minimum expectation.

Is this a goal or a minimum expectation?  A goal is something you hope to achieve a minimum expectation is something you assume you WILL achieve.

What happens if you have a losing week?  Do you still pay at least 1% in dividends?  If so, where does it come from.  If not do you REALLY expect that you'll never have a losing week?

If you intend to guarantee a minimum return then this isn't a fund - it's nearer a bond but without any demonstration of assets supporting the claimed guarantee of a minimum return.

If it's nowhere near guaranteed then your goals boil down to "make profit" - which isn't exactly enlightening as a goal (nearly every business at least claims that).

Investment

• Mining hardware trading
• Mining operations (potentially)
• BTC/USD trading (small amounts due to higher risk)

All of these carry high fiat-exposure.  If you buy hardware it's almost always going to have a price/value in fiat.  If BTC then rises sharply vs fiat you MAY make a profit in fiat - but in BTC (what your fund is valued in) you'd make a loss.

Paying for something in BTC doesn't magically make its value/price static in BTC.

If you trade BTC/USD then at times you will hold USD.  If BTC then rises you will lose (in BTC).

Mining is pretty much fiat-denominated most of the time (right now it isn't - but within a few months it'll be back to being fiat-denominated).

How can you aim for (let alone nearly promise) BTC-denominated profit when a significant part of your planned activities will bear heavy exposure to the BTC/fiat exchange-rate?

You'll find there's actually very few things you can do which have low fiat exposure.  That doesn't mean you can't do them - but it does mean you need to be realistic about claims of profits every week.  And it also means you need a strategy to actively assess, manage and reduce the risks that exposure brings.

[jmutch]

Hi,

Thanks for starting a constructive discussion Ukyo. I appreciate it, the feedback helps me further solidify the fund.

I don't see this in the OP, maybe you said this somewhere, but what percentage of profits are sent out as dividends?

100% profits up to 1% of capital raised will go to dividends. Profits above this will be divided into a reserve "carryover fund" and further dividends. The allocation will depend on the health of the carry over fund. This carry over is a safety net for the chance of a negative week.

It would be good to get feedback on this. Would it be better to have a constant fraction above the 1%?

Also, you do not address when/if/how additional shares will be issued?

Assurances:

• Subsequent shares will not be issued without a majority vote.

This is somewhat tailored to the voting system on btct.co. This may present a challenge on bitfunder. But for now i plan to keep this policy.

[/list]

[jmutch]

There are two main things which concern me about this :

Sandstorm's Goals:
-Release weekly dividends of at least 1% of the capital gathered from public offerings. This is a minimum expectation.

Is this a goal or a minimum expectation?  A goal is something you hope to achieve a minimum expectation is something you assume you WILL achieve.

What happens if you have a losing week?  Do you still pay at least 1% in dividends?  If so, where does it come from.  If not do you REALLY expect that you'll never have a losing week?

If you intend to guarantee a minimum return then this isn't a fund - it's nearer a bond but without any demonstration of assets supporting the claimed guarantee of a minimum return.

If it's nowhere near guaranteed then your goals boil down to "make profit" - which isn't exactly enlightening as a goal (nearly every business at least claims that).

I cannot guarantee this. However I plan to operate the fund in a way not dissimilar to my portfolio. Never have I had a negative week and when you pay as much attention to the markets as I do, it is not hard to achieve an average 1%.

In the event of a negative week dividends will come out of the aforementioned carry over fund. The weekly financial reporting is there to indicate to shareholders and investors the health of the fund.

This fund does not come without risks therefore it isn't close to a bond. Right now a fraction of the fund is long in AM shares. If AM was to go under right now, the fund would have a bad week.

There are two main things which concern me about this :

Sandstorm's Goals:
-Release weekly dividends of at least 1% of the capital gathered from public offerings. This is a minimum expectation.

Investment

• Mining hardware trading
• Mining operations (potentially)
• BTC/USD trading (small amounts due to higher risk)

All of these carry high fiat-exposure.  If you buy hardware it's almost always going to have a price/value in fiat.  If BTC then rises sharply vs fiat you MAY make a profit in fiat - but in BTC (what your fund is valued in) you'd make a loss.

Paying for something in BTC doesn't magically make its value/price static in BTC.

If you trade BTC/USD then at times you will hold USD.  If BTC then rises you will lose (in BTC).

Mining is pretty much fiat-denominated most of the time (right now it isn't - but within a few months it'll be back to being fiat-denominated).

How can you aim for (let alone nearly promise) BTC-denominated profit when a significant part of your planned activities will bear heavy exposure to the BTC/fiat exchange-rate?

You'll find there's actually very few things you can do which have low fiat exposure.  That doesn't mean you can't do them - but it does mean you need to be realistic about claims of profits every week.  And it also means you need a strategy to actively assess, manage and reduce the risks that exposure brings.

To be honest right now I have no interest in buying, selling, mining hardware. I see much to greater risk in these type of investments for the very reason you stated. This is just inserted in the list to leave options open to this kind of investment. If you invest in Sandstorm you are placing an element of trust in the decisions that i make on a weekly basis.

In direct response to your discussion. Any exposure to fiat will be well thought out and will only be a small percentage of the entire fund. [/list][/list]

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

It doesn't look like you know what you're doing.

[jmutch]

Current Assets

2500 AMC shares bought at @ .0005

Kthnxbye.

You said that twice. how creative.....

It doesn't look like you know what you're doing.

Do you have any actual input, questions? Or should I just expect constant unsubstantiated defamation from you...

[Factory]

Release weekly dividends of at least 1% of the capital gathered from public offerings. This is a minimum expectation.

There is literally no reason to return raised capital back to shareholders in this manner- unless you want to make it appear as though the fund has some form of positive cash flow. This is the same strategy that all HYIPs abide by.

It is aimed at people within the BTC community searching for a relatively low risk investment with high rewards.

Your 'plan' so far appears to be to trade miscellaneous securities and hope to profit. Speculation ≠ Investment, and is anything but low risk. The sad thing is, other than you saying the fund is "low risk", you don't address risk at all.

Once the company has reached a mature stage, where the abilities of the company have been proven, further public offerings of 100,000 shares at a time will be issued to raise further capital.
There will no more than 1,000,000 shares issued in the long term.

Nowhere in the contract does it state how future offerings will be priced. Red flag for potential future dilution.

However I plan to operate the fund in a way not dissimilar to my portfolio. Never have I had a negative week and when you pay as much attention to the markets as I do, it is not hard to achieve an average 1%.

Do you honestly expect people to believe that?

[Factory]

Just a quick question for investors.

JMutch (as mentioned in the prior post) has asked me about listing on BitFunder.

Sandstorm having the asset description being what it is, I would like to ask for thoughts, concerns, interests by users to see this listed. (or not..)
And please, fully explain reasoning for not's.

Thanks,
Ukyo

No.

Best case scenario: This 'fund' will be managed by someone who appears to have almost no knowledge of finance and has crafted a terribly vague contract.

Worse case scenario: This 'fund' is a HYIP and a lot of people will get burned.

[jmutch]

Release weekly dividends of at least 1% of the capital gathered from public offerings. This is a minimum expectation.

There is literally no reason to return raised capital back to shareholders in this manner- unless you want to make it appear as though the fund has some form of positive cash flow. This is the same strategy that all HYIPs abide by.

It is aimed at people within the BTC community searching for a relatively low risk investment with high rewards.

Your 'plan' so far appears to be to trade miscellaneous securities and hope to profit. Speculation ≠ Investment, and is anything but low risk. The sad thing is, other than you saying the fund is "low risk", you don't address risk at all.

Once the company has reached a mature stage, where the abilities of the company have been proven, further public offerings of 100,000 shares at a time will be issued to raise further capital.
There will no more than 1,000,000 shares issued in the long term.

Nowhere in the contract does it state how future offerings will be priced. Red flag for potential future dilution.

However I plan to operate the fund in a way not dissimilar to my portfolio. Never have I had a negative week and when you pay as much attention to the markets as I do, it is not hard to achieve an average 1%.

Do you honestly expect people to believe that?

-Dividends only come from profit through the trading and investment activities. I don't know why you would think i would do this. I'd take dividends out of my own pocket before taking them out of the fund.

-The key word there is relatively. Sandstorm is less risky than trading yourself but obviously more risky than a lot of the funds on the market. It's simply a fund that is geared more aggressively than the funds on the market.

-    

Contract

Sandstorm's Goals:
-Release weekly dividends of at least 1% of the capital gathered from public offerings. This is a minimum expectation.
-Achieve consistent growth in value, share price and dividends

Goal two adresses this. I would never sell shares in a manner that would decrease their value. I have a vested interest in the increase of shareprice. Why would i want to dilute the fund?

-yes. If you don't believe it then why not follow my trades. my btct.co portfolio is public.

I just want to say a couple of things here:

-I'm not going anywhere with anyones BTC. I've fully disclosed my ID to people that have bought shares so far. I don't hide behind an alias on this site.
-The IPO is tiny. This is a reflection on the amount of trust i think i deserve. Which isn't much. I'm not kidding myself here. I think people should wait before forming an opinion on my understanding of economics and ability to trade BTC related elements.

[Peter Lambert]

-The IPO is tiny. This is a reflection on the amount of trust i think i deserve. Which isn't much. I'm not kidding myself here. I think people should wait before forming an opinion on my understanding of economics and ability to trade BTC related elements.

I think I remember that on the list of things to look out for in a Ponzi: limiting initial investment, slowly letting bigger and bigger investments be made into the scheme.

-The key word there is relatively. Sandstorm is less risky than trading yourself but obviously more risky than a lot of the funds on the market.

I don't think this is true. Trading myself I do not have to wonder if the guy doing the trading is going to run off with my money.


To those saying 1% a week is untenable, I have been getting at least that much on my (admittedly small) portion of my portfolio in bitcoin investments. But I have had a few negative weeks, saying you never have negative weeks sounds a bit fishy. (My USD investment portfolio has been averaging about 1% a year, stupid stock market economy grumble grumble grumble mpfh ...)