SANDSTORM: - A Collective Investment Vehicle for BTC. -

[jmutch]

Hi,

Noted.

Please don't get me wrong. I think rental starter is a great business model. It just that due to the exposure to fiat their growth will always be fighting the btc/usd exchange rate. This is only from the perspective of a fund which seeded in BTC.

 It's nothing to do with a lack of patience. They were sold at a good price before the second round of fund raising. No regrets in doing that.

I know I'm in no place to judge strategies right now but that's just how I see it.

[1714652489]

1714652489

[1714652489]

1714652489

[1714652489]

1714652489

[BitHub]

good thing noone cares anymore. Sounds like you've lost complete faith in sandstorm and in your skillset. When will sandstorm be closing down?

[jmutch]

good thing noone cares anymore. Sounds like you've lost complete faith in sandstorm and in your skillset. When will sandstorm be closing down?

Gee talk about jumping to conclusions.

Definitely haven't lost fair in sandstorm or my skillset. Might prompt a change in strategy though.

Sandstorm won't be closing in the foreseeable future.

[xaviarlol]

good thing noone cares anymore. Sounds like you've lost complete faith in sandstorm and in your skillset. When will sandstorm be closing down?

Gee talk about jumping to conclusions.

Definitely haven't lost fair in sandstorm or my skillset. Might prompt a change in strategy though.

Sandstorm won't be closing in the foreseeable future.

Not being cruel or anything, but you really should have lost some faith in your skillset. The fact that you haven't lost faith is why you should never manage other people's money or an investment fund. You are inexperienced and overconfident, and worst of all, you still appear to think you know what you are doing.

You lost more shareholder money than the general market change. For example, BTC-EQTY B fund lost just 16% in the same period that sandstorm lost what, like 60-80%? Same with BTCINVEST, it is down about 15-25%, so you lost far more than TF also.

For those who are still watching this thread: I told you so.

[jmutch]

good thing noone cares anymore. Sounds like you've lost complete faith in sandstorm and in your skillset. When will sandstorm be closing down?

Gee talk about jumping to conclusions.

Definitely haven't lost fair in sandstorm or my skillset. Might prompt a change in strategy though.

Sandstorm won't be closing in the foreseeable future.

Not being cruel or anything, but you really should have lost some faith in your skillset. The fact that you haven't lost faith is why you should never manage other people's money or an investment fund. You are inexperienced and overconfident, and worst of all, you still appear to think you know what you are doing.

You lost more shareholder money than the general market change. For example, BTC-EQTY B fund lost just 16% in the same period that sandstorm lost what, like 60-80%? Same with BTCINVEST, it is down about 15-25%, so you lost far more than TF also.

For those who are still watching this thread: I told you so.

not sure where you are getting your "statistics" from.

[jmutch]

ok so,

I found out about 30 minutes after the event. Sadly a lot of damage had been done by that stage.

Thankfully sandstorm isn't listed on btct

All assets will be transferred out according to issuers instructions.

Apart from ciphermine bond which is has nearly been liquidated at cost price.

This is a big hit to Sandstorm due to the long positions on btct. A better picture will be given on Friday.

[freedomno1]

Yep that was a nuke waiting to happen
Since all trading was on btct does it move now as well

[jmutch]

After a lot of deliberation I've decided to close down Sandstorm.

This was done by:

1) Liquidating all assets
2) buying back my own 40,000 shares for 0 BTC
3) Buying back 60,000 public shares for .0008963 each

.0008963 correlates with last weeks NAV of 89.63. The value of the liquidated assets was considerably lower than last weeks NAV(before btct.co announcement) hence why I bought back my own shares for nothing.


After the btct.co announcement, Sandstorms NAV took a significant hit. It would be very difficult to recover the fund to anything close to IPO value whilst maintaining 1% dividends. The fund was turning into a value destroying operation. It is fair to say at this stage that the fund was a failure.

Overall the fund still came out positive due to ending on a pre btct.co announcement value.

From a 100BTC IPO. Shares were bought back for 89.63BTC(theoretical) +25.845BTC dividends =115.475

I'm aware that still is no consolation for those who bought above the IPO price. If its any consolation please be aware that I've personally taken a big loss from this.
 
Other personal reasons have also contributed to this closure.

No one was informed of the Sandstorm share buyback before it occurred.

[BitHub]

 

[BitHub]

If Sandstorm can't continue:
Shareholders will be fully informed and a suitable replacement for management will be sought after. If this attempt is unsuccessful, all remaining assets from the last weekly report will be liquidated and distributed to shareholders at a per unit basis.

- This did not occur.

[xaviarlol]

At last, jmutch is making the first good decision thus far.

[xaviarlol]

And it isn't so bad if compared to IPO price - again, it's not your fault people bought it without understanding what it was.

Actually, it is. From the start, (and even until now) jmutch didn't disclose important stats that would help dumbasses newbs figure out what is worth what. For example, he refused to include NAV changes of the fund in his weekly reports because the fund was performing horribly, which hid the true state of the fund and made it very difficult to measure its value. He also showcased the fund as making "profit" when in fact it had made enormous losses in NAV, via highly misleading reporting methods, and the way he presented that in those weekly reports was very (and purposely) dishonest. So most newbs had no idea that the fund was a trainwreck.

[Peter Lambert]

After the btct.co announcement, Sandstorms NAV took a significant hit. It would be very difficult to recover the fund to anything close to IPO value whilst maintaining 1% dividends. The fund was turning into a value destroying operation. It is fair to say at this stage that the fund was a failure.

This statement makes no sense to me. How did the NAV take such a big hit? Everything was suddenly priced for a discount, you should have taken the opportunity to buy the shares cheap, you could have made a huge profit off all the panic. Or maybe you did make a huge profit off the panic and you don't want to tell your shareholders, you are just taking all that profit for yourself?

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

After the btct.co announcement, Sandstorms NAV took a significant hit. It would be very difficult to recover the fund to anything close to IPO value whilst maintaining 1% dividends. The fund was turning into a value destroying operation. It is fair to say at this stage that the fund was a failure.

This statement makes no sense to me. How did the NAV take such a big hit? Everything was suddenly priced for a discount, you should have taken the opportunity to buy the shares cheap, you could have made a huge profit off all the panic. Or maybe you did make a huge profit off the panic and you don't want to tell your shareholders, you are just taking all that profit for yourself?

+1. It was incredibly easy to capitalize on btct.co's winding down announcement, your NAV should have increased...

[OleOle]

So most newbs had no idea that the fund was a trainwreck.

Perhaps I shouldn't laugh, but as someone who 'only' took a ten percent loss after being 'invested' in the Sandstorm fund for two days and managed to get out quickly when it was clear the fund was going off the rails in late August, it's somehow not surprising that about a month later the fund has now effectively collapsed. Trainwreck is the right word.

My overall losses were thankfully offset by some profit taking on Bitfunder but I sold every 'bitcoin investment' that I had at that point in time so that I actually made some marginal profit on the overall gambling 'investments'. Interestingly, if it hadn't been for the ten percent drop in two days on the Sandstorm fund, I'd probably have remained invested in 'bitcoin investments' and have lost half or more of my starting capital.

So yeah, worth a laugh, but not for those people who remained 'invested' and saw their bitcoins ground into paste.

[FreedomFund]

Good effort bro!

Remember that you miss 100% of the shots you never take.  You tried and have been humbled, learn from this and you will only excel in the future.

[shmoula]

Why is no information about closing on asset page on havelock and trading is not halted?

[BitHub]

I will save Sandstorm.

[Spincycle]

And it isn't so bad if compared to IPO price - again, it's not your fault people bought it without understanding what it was.

Actually, it is. From the start, (and even until now) jmutch didn't disclose important stats that would help dumbasses newbs figure out what is worth what. For example, he refused to include NAV changes of the fund in his weekly reports because the fund was performing horribly, which hid the true state of the fund and made it very difficult to measure its value. He also showcased the fund as making "profit" when in fact it had made enormous losses in NAV, via highly misleading reporting methods, and the way he presented that in those weekly reports was very (and purposely) dishonest. So most newbs had no idea that the fund was a trainwreck.

From: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=SDSTM

DESCRIPTION:
...The primary focus of Sandstorm is long term wealth creation.

Assurances:
...The creator is in this for the long term and will not give up.

If on the unlikely chance that Sandstorm can't continue:
Shareholders will be fully informed and a suitable replacement for
management will be sought after

Joshua Mutch, let me get this strait...SDSTM owned shares of various things... assets.. and you suddenly decide to liquidate those when they're still paying dividends for your investors and buy back all shares at pennies on the dollar? I'm a student with a lot of debt hoping to make a little money, my loss in this is painful. I didn't want to sell MY shares, not at the price you gave me for them. As long as there were dividends coming in on SDSTMs assets and generating dividends for me - no matter how small, I would have waited years just to break even. I feel robbed and you've not even offered us an apology.

Joshua Mutch, fuck you - you fucking punk. I lost over 25 BTC on Sandstorm, buying all the way down as recently as yesterday because I expected you to hang in there like you said you would, because "The creator of Sandstorm has been creating wealth through BTC related activities for a long time", because "Joshua Mutch has a comprehensive background in economics", and because Havelock still lists SDSTM as having an Annual Yield of 26.26% - so of course I bought more!

I've lost 25 BTC already so it would be worth it to me  to pay 5 more as a bounty for someone in Australia to give you a serious ass kicking... Hell I'd pay 6 BTC to see a youtube of you crawling around on your knees trying to pick up your teeth with broken fingers. If a few more people (who you burned) chip in I'm sure we could afford a quality beat-down for you - or a few cheap ones. 

Some of you others might disapprove of such uncivilized calls for violent vigilante justice but before you censor me, this is the wild west of unregulated investments, we have no authorities we can appeal to regarding these lies and broken promises. Lets discuss how we foster responsible stewardship by fund managers without making an example out of one or two lynch mob style. A scammer label or banning someone from a website does not measure up when fines or jail time would otherwise be in order. We have a perfect tool for crowd funding anon payments anywhere in the world... we should use it to hire a guy with a camcorder and brass knuckles. If you're an investor and have a better idea this might be a good time to chime in, if you don't have a better idea just look the other way for your own sake and the common good.

[BitHub]

He shouldn't have liquidated or closed down Sandstorm without looking for a replacement first. No warning what so ever.

DESCRIPTION:
...The primary focus of Sandstorm is long term wealth creation.

Assurances:
...The creator is in this for the long term and will not give up.

If on the unlikely chance that Sandstorm can't continue:
Shareholders will be fully informed and a suitable replacement for
management will be sought after.

didn't even last a few months.

And it isn't so bad if compared to IPO price - again, it's not your fault people bought it without understanding what it was.

Actually, it is. From the start, (and even until now) jmutch didn't disclose important stats that would help dumbasses newbs figure out what is worth what. For example, he refused to include NAV changes of the fund in his weekly reports because the fund was performing horribly, which hid the true state of the fund and made it very difficult to measure its value. He also showcased the fund as making "profit" when in fact it had made enormous losses in NAV, via highly misleading reporting methods, and the way he presented that in those weekly reports was very (and purposely) dishonest. So most newbs had no idea that the fund was a trainwreck.

From: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=SDSTM

DESCRIPTION:
...The primary focus of Sandstorm is long term wealth creation.

Assurances:
...The creator is in this for the long term and will not give up.

If on the unlikely chance that Sandstorm can't continue:
Shareholders will be fully informed and a suitable replacement for
management will be sought after

Joshua Mutch, let me get this strait...SDSTM owned shares of various things... assets.. and you suddenly decide to liquidate those when they're still paying dividends for your investors and buy back all shares at pennies on the dollar? I'm a student with a lot of debt hoping to make a little money, my loss in this is painful. I didn't want to sell MY shares, not at the price you gave me for them. As long as there were dividends coming in on SDSTMs assets and generating dividends for me - no matter how small, I would have waited years just to break even. I feel robbed and you've not even offered us an apology.

Joshua Mutch, fuck you - you fucking punk. I lost over 25 BTC on Sandstorm, buying all the way down as recently as yesterday because I expected you to hang in there like you said you would, because "The creator of Sandstorm has been creating wealth through BTC related activities for a long time", because "Joshua Mutch has a comprehensive background in economics", and because Havelock still lists SDSTM as having an Annual Yield of 26.26% - so of course I bought more!

I've lost 25 BTC already so it would be worth it to me  to pay 5 more as a bounty for someone in Australia to give you a serious ass kicking... Hell I'd pay 6 BTC to see a youtube of you crawling around on your knees trying to pick up your teeth with broken fingers. If a few more people (who you burned) chip in I'm sure we could afford a quality beat-down for you - or a few cheap ones. 

Some of you others might disapprove of such uncivilized calls for violent vigilante justice but before you censor me, this is the wild west of unregulated investments, we have no authorities we can appeal to regarding these lies and broken promises. Lets discuss how we foster responsible stewardship by fund managers without making an example out of one or two lynch mob style. A scammer label or banning someone from a website does not measure up when fines or jail time would otherwise be in order. We have a perfect tool for crowd funding anon payments anywhere in the world... we should use it to hire a guy with a camcorder and brass knuckles. If you're an investor and have a better idea this might be a good time to chime in, if you don't have a better idea just look the other way for your own sake and the common good.