occupy taksim

[myrkul]

If I were one of those cops, I would need a change of pants.

[gurcani]

As of the early morning of monday 03 june:

The events have further spread accross the country. Taksim square is now completely under the control of demonstrators. But the police violence continues elsewhere in the country including Ankara (the capital). They use the tear gas to punish people rather than try to push them anywhere. In any case, the tear gas is becoming completely useless because people now know what to expect, and they still come back when the gas is gone.

Apparently the demonstrators in Taksim square are still decidedly peaceful. There were no widespread vandalism (except against police cars, and a pastry shop owned by the mayor), and the demonstrators were picking up the trash sunday morning. It is apparently more like a festival at this point, with a collective music group playing "ciao bella" etc.

There are widespread complaints by people that the local media is playing it down. All the mainstream news channels continue with their daily routine. When the events were taking place, cnn-turk, ntv, haber-turk (local mainstream news channels) were showing documentaries on penguins or cooking shows.

I am not sure if this will continue into the week with this kind of intensity, especially with Erdogan leaving the country until Thursday.

One thing that became clear is that, we need a sort of police technologies information database. For instance a website which keeps track of the crowd control technologies that the police use (tear gas, pepper spray, orange gas etc.) by country, and develop methods of fighting against them. While people are rather creative: they build their makeshift masks and stuff, it could be more efficient if there were more individuals who were already prepared.

I remember from while I lived in the US, the cops would have some fake demonstrations (with actors who were also cops I guess), to train for the actual demonstrations in the school's parking lot. This was at the time of the Iraq war, and I later saw them use those tactics against us, when we were demonstrating against the war.

[gurcani]

it sez:

"Before the police started gassing people, the gezi park occupation was like this. Those who don't see it or don't show it have no shame."

[gurcani]

Ok, there it is.

I flew in last night to Istanbul and I was finally at taksim today. It looks surreal.

At this time the park was full of young people (mostly students). There were stands of small leftist organizations, green/ecological ngo's, universities and gay and lesbian organizations. The taksim square (as opposed to the park), was occupied by leftist political parties. there was an open air library and a makeshift 'revolution museum'.

The police has left the square to the people last Saturday. The place is being run by citizen organisations for a week now. It is actually particularly well organized. There are now people selling stuff also, from gas masks, to various flags to watermelons. While I was there, they were anouncing that people shouldn't buy stuff from commercial stands but rather share it from the free ones.

Police says that they will not do anything until Monday. We'll see what they will do afterwards. I hope taksim stays like this. It would be a monument of what the people can do.

[ktttn]

Anyone got some info on btc addresses for people there?

[mprep]

Anyone got some info on btc addresses for people there?

Go there and ask 'em.

[gurcani]

I could organize a bitcoin aid campaign if need be. Right now, the whole country is watching the events there, so the people who are staying there are supported by everyone in the country. I don't feel like they need material help at this point. I was there for a big demonstration yesterday, and it was so crowded, I could only stay for an hour. There was an old woman on the metro going to taksim, wearing a Guy Fawkes mask playfully to scare what looked like her granddaughter.

Another thing is that I don't want to be personally responsible for the transfer of a lot of bitcoins to the right people. So my suggestion would be that if the government tries to censor the internet etc. As the bitcoin community, we can provide high quality, paid vpn services for the people at the park.

That way those who want to contribute may pay for the vpn service directly and I would publish the information for these vpn accounts in turkish over facebook etc. to the organizers. I am not sure if this would be feasible in practice, but this is what I thought would make sense.

However, right now, this does not seem to be an issue either. The people are impossible to convince to use vpn (or open source alternatives to facebook or twitter), unless there is a problem with them (I know, it is stupid, but this is how it is).

I stayed there the night on saturday. I talked to some random people about bitcoins among other things. I can say that there is no awareness whatsoever about bitcoins in Turkey.

[ktttn]

I could organize a bitcoin aid campaign if need be. Right now, the whole country is watching the events there, so the people who are staying there are supported by everyone in the country. I don't feel like they need material help at this point. I was there for a big demonstration yesterday, and it was so crowded, I could only stay for an hour. There was an old woman on the metro going to taksim, wearing a Guy Fawkes mask playfully to scare what looked like her granddaughter.

Another thing is that I don't want to be personally responsible for the transfer of a lot of bitcoins to the right people. So my suggestion would be that if the government tries to censor the internet etc. As the bitcoin community, we can provide high quality, paid vpn services for the people at the park.

That way those who want to contribute may pay for the vpn service directly and I would publish the information for these vpn accounts in turkish over facebook etc. to the organizers. I am not sure if this would be feasible in practice, but this is what I thought would make sense.

However, right now, this does not seem to be an issue either. The people are impossible to convince to use vpn (or open source alternatives to facebook or twitter), unless there is a problem with them (I know, it is stupid, but this is how it is).

I stayed there the night on saturday. I talked to some random people about bitcoins among other things. I can say that there is no awareness whatsoever about bitcoins in Turkey.

Thank you.
I'm going to do my best to get some btc sent your way via the OWS Library. Hopefully, you can use them to spread awareness, whether its demonstrating how to use them or using them for flyers ect. How do you feel about this idea?

[gurcani]

Thank you.
I'm going to do my best to get some btc sent your way via the OWS Library. Hopefully, you can use them to spread awareness, whether its demonstrating how to use them or using them for flyers ect. How do you feel about this idea?

Hi,

I haven't contacted the people that organize the library. I will go and talk to them, next time I go to taksim, which may take a while, because I need to attend a conference this week.

I don't think they will accept monetary donation, but I'll let you know what they tell me.

[gsan]

My primary concern is, collectivist movements tend to look down on anything that has to do with money, and often for good reason. Therefore I would suggest a more generic privacy awareness campaign, which I think is becoming an essential need in Turkey. This can cover providing free VPN access, introduction to sharing information and trading privately, circumventing government censorship, and most importantly an initial discussion about what can be done in case of an Internet blackout.

While we would all agree on a goal to create an environment which would remove these needs, it's important to note that governments are more inclined to implement laws that are enforceable. So even if there isn't an ongoing rampant abuse by the State (which seems to be the case in Turkey anyway), widespread privacy awareness would be a deterrent by itself.

[ktttn]

Thank you.
I'm going to do my best to get some btc sent your way via the OWS Library. Hopefully, you can use them to spread awareness, whether its demonstrating how to use them or using them for flyers ect. How do you feel about this idea?

Hi,

I haven't contacted the people that organize the library. I will go and talk to them, next time I go to taksim, which may take a while, because I need to attend a conference this week.

I don't think they will accept monetary donation, but I'll let you know what they tell me.

I'm curious about the similarities between Taksim and OWS.
Are they using a General Assembly consensus model for mass decision making?
Have they pooled funds based around working groups, ie flyer making, food distribution, march organization?
Are there treasurers of any kind in these groups or the group at large?

As far as donations go, I think a proof of concept viral 'tip demonstration' might do more good than a monetary donation per se. For example, reddit btc tips turning into more tips, allowing for wider possibility of adoption.

[gurcani]

The police attacked taksim, starting from this morning.

I tried to go there tonight with some foreigners, but we turned back as soon as we got tear gas. People I was leading didn't have the stomach to continue. I assume that the library is destroyed (it was in the park but near the square) but I may be wrong. We'll see about it soon. I'll try to go there tomorrow with some more experienced folks.

[Elwar]

The police attacked taksim, starting from this morning.

I tried to go there tonight with some foreigners, but we turned back as soon as we got tear gas. People I was leading didn't have the stomach to continue. I assume that the library is destroyed (it was in the park but near the square) but I may be wrong. We'll see about it soon. I'll try to go there tomorrow with some more experienced folks.

Good for you gurcani.

I find it disgusting how much our media is a tool of the government. During the Egyptian riots they considered it an uprising to take over the government and covered it like there was good chance for an overthrow of the government.

For this one they talk about the difficulty the Turkish government is facing against these protesters.

[gurcani]

the library is apparently flooded due to water cannon attacks:

[PrintMule]

Hey, I'm all against any governments  BUT:

What do you expect of police if it's provoked with rocks and Molotov cocktails?
I view these violent protesters as a worse thing.

They demolish their own country.
It's not the case with countries like Egypt and Turkey, but they call for intervention.
In the short run change of government is for the worse.
Instead of your dictator you will get a whole room of greedy politicians who cannot agree on what they want, will spend your money to advertise themselves, will suck more money than your dictator in the end.
 In the very end you will be run by jewish banks and other puppeteers.

If we look at Syria insurgency - it's a bunch of foreign mercenaries, or plunderers enjoying overseas support, while on a rape run. They are not your freedom fighters.

[firefop]

Education in Turkey is governed by a national system which was established in accordance with the Atatürk Reforms after the Turkish War of Independence. It is a state supervised system designed to produce a skillful professional class for the social and economic institutes of the nation.

With this in mind, it's almost guaranteed they're all just pissed off and have no idea what they really want out of it, aside from showing a whole lot of discontent.

Except that "Ataturk" was an extreme secularist and the current government has "islamic roots". So what the education system thought to people older than 20-25 is in complete contradiction to the point of view of the current government.

However the current government is successful economically. And they are not really "islamists". They are more like the Christian democrats in Europe, I guess.

So, while I agree, there is some twist.

If it isn't a protest against islam then it needs to become that. It would really be the best thing for the region. The best thing for Turkey would be overthrow of the current government and a return to something secular... combined with the EU pulling prospective status over it.

[Mike Christ]

Hey, I'm all against any governments  BUT:

What do you expect of police if it's provoked with rocks and Molotov cocktails?
I view these violent protesters as a worse thing.

They demolish their own country.
It's not the case with countries like Egypt and Turkey, but they call for intervention.
In the short run change of government is for the worse.
Instead of your dictator you will get a whole room of greedy politicians who cannot agree on what they want, will spend your money to advertise themselves, will suck more money than your dictator in the end.
 In the very end you will be run by jewish banks and other puppeteers.

If we look at Syria insurgency - it's a bunch of foreign mercenaries, or plunderers enjoying overseas support, while on a rape run. They are not your freedom fighters.

Though I agree that violent protest is not the answer, many of the protesters were not being violent.  It was the police who initiated violence against the citizens they're supposed to protect.  If this were true, the police would've stand down and left the protesters alone: what, then, separates a mercenary from official government force?  Who do the police work for?

[gurcani]

Hi,

I couldn't post an update because I was in the park for a few days, and I only had emergency internet access.

The atmosphere (when I was there) was rather calm. I met artists, students, teachers and all kinds of other people.

The cops attacked only on tuesday (while I wasn't there), I tried to reach the park, but apparently they managed to push most of the people out, and I didn't have the proper gear against tear gas, so I ended up going back to Karakoy.

Now, apparently the PM has stepped a bit back. He says certain things which can be interpreted positively. The people in the park were discussing how to interpret those. He is also organizing a huge meeting of his own with his supporters, to show his power.

I don't know what will be decided. Apparently the leftist groups are willing to stop the occupation while the greenpeace groups want to continue. To me, it sould continue until the police that has killed people be properly punished.

[gsan]

What do you expect of police if it's provoked with rocks and Molotov cocktails?

FWIW, rocks appeared long after the sweeping attack by the police. By the time people started throwing rocks, many protesters had already been injured. Molotov cocktails appeared very briefly after many such attacks by the police for a week, and the police's reaction to these appeared less severe than their initial offense (back when they were attacking sleeping tent dwellers).

The best thing for Turkey would be overthrow of the current government and a return to something secular...

Turkey is still pretty much secular, so you'd need a precautionary reaction against a potential threat to secularism. These already happened many times in Turkey, and resulted in this situation.

Precautionary rhetoric in general, regardless of the subject, is prone to turning into religion itself.

I don't know what will be decided. Apparently the leftist groups are willing to stop the occupation while the greenpeace groups want to continue. To me, it sould continue until the police that has killed people be properly punished.

I think it should continue until things start moving about legislative, even constitutional change. Don't think it will happen though, since it requires a political consensus. If the Turkish left could do that, AKP wouldn't be in power in the first place.

This was never about the trees, so I hope the protesters don't try to build on that topic this late in the game. It has been a victory so far, but now they need to let the government build what it wants to build.

[gurcani]

The decision from the Taksim Collective (Taksim Dayanisma) has been to continue the occupation. I don't think they could decide otherwise, since even if only the greenpeace people said that they would stay, nobody would leave. They have also decided to organize under a more coherent organization scheme, which includes very disparate groups such as ODP,BDP, TKP, IP, CHP, etc.

There are people saying that this may turn into a bloodbath. I doubt that, but it is not completely impossible with the government supporters planned meeting in Kazlicesme on Sunday. I would expect a police attack on Tuesday or Wednesday.

So far the tactics have been to leave when the police comes and to come back when they leave. I hope with this new sense of organization, they don't try to defend the park. I think that would be stupid.

If the police decides to occupy taksim themselves, I think the protesters should simply move the headquarters, and wait. If they decide to demolish the park with a police occupation. That can be done (logistically) but it would be a horrible blow to the image of Tayyip, who has already suffered quite a bit. People who had postive opinions of him a few years back are now drawing parallels between him and Kenan Evren (the turkish general responsible for the coup d'etat of 1980).