ASICs are Over priced

[Xian01]

I cant afford a Ferrari as well, but I have allot of alternatives which suite my budget ... and I do not have the 9000 $ to join your club

 So don't drop $9k then. You can get an AMD 7950 for ~$300 to get your feet wet.

 ... an alternative to suit your budget.

[1715228898]

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[1715228898]

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[1715228898]

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[btceic]

I cant afford a Ferrari as well, but I have allot of alternatives which suite my budget ... and I do not have the 9000 $ to join your club

 So don't drop $9k then. You can get an AMD 7950 for ~$300 to get your feet wet.

 ... an alternative to suit your budget.

To be clear here, this is what most of us are doing, at least I am, and reinvesting into PT shares or similar.

[mmitech]

I cant afford a Ferrari as well, but I have allot of alternatives which suite my budget ... and I do not have the 9000 $ to join your club

 So don't drop $9k then. You can get an AMD 7950 for ~$300 to get your feet wet.

 ... an alternative to suit your budget.

this is what I am doing now, but think about 2-3 weeks from now, I wont be able to mine with my GPU. and I cant get an ASIC as well, only few people have that blessing. it is nothing personal thought, I am thinking out loud, and I believe that allot of people are doing the same.

[HTML5 Gordon]

I cant afford a Ferrari as well, but I have allot of alternatives which suite my budget ... and I do not have the 9000 $ to join your club

 So don't drop $9k then. You can get an AMD 7950 for ~$300 to get your feet wet.

 ... an alternative to suit your budget.

Exactly.  And they they can just scale up over time.  Patience (and an intelligent use of coins) is required for those who don't have enough coins/money saved to start out with a lot of hashing power.  

But anyone can get started and grow their power over time.  No need being bitter about others being able to afford more hash than you.

I would like to mine Bitcoin and use the side profit to support my family, this is nothing wrong, am I right ? and I do not have the 9000 $ to join your club, and even if I had I wouldn't pay that much

By saying that you don't have the money to join the "club", but also saying you'd like to mine and earn to support your family, means that you need to mine and put all your coins back into mining and scale up - eventually you'd be able to afford more powerful hardware.  For many of the people in the "club", that is exactly how it was done.

Why would you not invest the money if you had it?  I'm not sure how you can complain about others being able to afford it, say that you want to mine to help your family with the profits, but also say that you wouldn't invest to do it even if you could.  Huh?  What exactly is this all about then?

[pikeadz]

I really don't understand the complaint.  I can't afford a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, but I don't whine about it on a public message board.  

If your concern was really about securing the network (as opposed to profit), you would just buy some ASIC Miner shares at an amount you could afford, or even some of the escrowed group buys that people on the forum have been advertising.  Then your money is going toward increased hashing.  I suspect you just want to make a ton of money though, and are bitter that you can't afford to buy an ASIC of your own.  Am I right?

I cant afford a Ferrari as well, but I have allot of alternatives which suite my budget, and yes I do not care only about the network security I would like to mine Bitcoin and use the side profit to support my family, this is nothing wrong, am I right ? and I do not have the 9000 $ to join your club, and even if I had I wouldn't pay that much because I think long term, these asics could be at reasonable price so all of us could buy one, and companys  would still make a load of money. you are just missing the point here. these ASICs are not worth all that money, with these prices you are limiting the customers to a small group of people.
  

I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that they are not worth "all that money."  Quite simply, ASICs are worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for them.  So they are not overpriced at their current price point because that is what they sell for.  Once again, just because YOU can't afford one does not mean they are overpriced.

[KS]

I cant afford a Ferrari as well, but I have allot of alternatives which suite my budget ... and I do not have the 9000 $ to join your club

 So don't drop $9k then. You can get an AMD 7950 for ~$300 to get your feet wet.

 ... an alternative to suit your budget.

this is what I am doing now, but think about 2-3 weeks from now, I wont be able to mine with my GPU. and I cant get an ASIC as well, only few people have that blessing. it is nothing personal thought, I am thinking out loud, and I believe that allot of people are doing the same.

You should probably get into a groupbuy and get a klondike16. That will cost less than a GPU and turn about 4.5GH/s.

If you don't feel too adventurous about it right now, wait a month or three, mine with your GPU (it's not like anything bad will happen to it in the meantime) then find the most reliable seller you can buy a K16 from (and eventually sell your GPU on ebay).

This is going to be the cheapest way to stay "current" in bitcoin mining, unless BFL start shipping like there's no tomorrow (if you believe in that...).

I'm all about supporting the klondike cottage industry, even if Avalon profits from it. It's a way for the community to keep the other ASIC vendors "honest".

[nosurrender]

I really don't understand the complaint.  I can't afford a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, but I don't whine about it on a public message board.  

If your concern was really about securing the network (as opposed to profit), you would just buy some ASIC Miner shares at an amount you could afford, or even some of the escrowed group buys that people on the forum have been advertising.  Then your money is going toward increased hashing.  I suspect you just want to make a ton of money though, and are bitter that you can't afford to buy an ASIC of your own.  Am I right?

Sorry to "intrude" but IMHO your missing the point. The network didn´t grow and prosper because of a few "investors" with enough money to take over a considerable amount of combined hashing power. As far as I know, one of the core principles of Bitcoin is the ability of as many participants as possible - the more the merrier. No trust issues because of the big big numbers of participants. The chance to earn new coins now and to earn from fees later. No centralized control. No centralized power over the currency.

When participating with CPU - no problem. Anyone with a computer could participate without considerable cost.
When participating with GPU - no problem. Anyone with a newer computer could participate without considerable cost.
ASICs are not only a completely new game, it´s completely new sport.

When buying shares from whoever, there is nevertheless a centralized huge hashing power beyond the control of many.
When buying ASICs now because of deep pockets of a few and profiting huge in the coming few month and "reinvesting" that money after massiv increase of difficulty bears the risk of centralizing instead of decentralizing.

A lot of people (and I assume the creators of Bitcoins) wanted a currency that depends NOT on the decisions of a few. You can call this "few" government, feds, Bundesbank or Oligipoly of rich ASIC  "investors". Bitcoin is more than a network, more than a way to print your own money and more than a kindergarden of tech-freaks. If the community doesn´t respect the principles, Bitcoin will go down the road of any actual currency. I don't want a "FED" consisting of a handful of miners with hashing power no one with a computer can do anything about.

I trust a network build of thousands of family men with a computer a lot more than a network of elite ASICs.

No offense - just my two cents.

[jspielberg]

I cant afford a Ferrari as well, but I have allot of alternatives which suite my budget ... and I do not have the 9000 $ to join your club

 So don't drop $9k then. You can get an AMD 7950 for ~$300 to get your feet wet.

 ... an alternative to suit your budget.

this is what I am doing now, but think about 2-3 weeks from now, I wont be able to mine with my GPU. and I cant get an ASIC as well, only few people have that blessing. it is nothing personal thought, I am thinking out loud, and I believe that allot of people are doing the same.

The conventional wisdom in GPU mining these days is to move to LTC.

[mmitech]

By saying that you don't have the money to join the "club", but also saying you'd like to mine and earn to support your family, means that you need to mine and put all your coins back into mining and scale up - eventually you'd be able to afford more powerful hardware.  For many of the people in the "club", that is exactly how it was done.

Why would you not invest the money if you had it?  I'm not sure how you can complain about others being able to afford it, say that you want to mine to help your family with the profits, but also say that you wouldn't invest to do it even if you could.  Huh?  What exactly is this all about then?

I see that allot of people are missing the point here or just ignoring it, lets say that I am buying a ATI 7950 cards and you are selling each for 1500 $ and you are the only one that have it on stock, I wont buy it even if had the money and even if there is some one out there willing to pay that price, this doesn't mean that the 7950 costs that much, it only means that you are using your position to make a shit load of profit on customers needs. this what I cant get , this is the hole point that you are all missing these prototypes are over priced , we could all have one if they just sold them for their real value    

[niko]

Absolutely overpriced. Paying BTC2.5 for ~300 MH/s or even BTC50 for ~10 GH/s does not make sense. You can get 300 MH/s GPU equivalent for ~BTC1. Sure, the power cost is higher, but this is not the main factor at these initial prices of hardware. Also, GPUs at least have some resale value if you decide to get out. Overall, migrating to the new technology does not make sense yet, as market is far from equilibrium.

I am glad to see not everyone sees things my way, because that is exactly what makes my decision meaningful. Good luck to you all. I will wait for the right opportunity to get some ASICs.

[mmitech]

I really don't understand the complaint.  I can't afford a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, but I don't whine about it on a public message board.  

If your concern was really about securing the network (as opposed to profit), you would just buy some ASIC Miner shares at an amount you could afford, or even some of the escrowed group buys that people on the forum have been advertising.  Then your money is going toward increased hashing.  I suspect you just want to make a ton of money though, and are bitter that you can't afford to buy an ASIC of your own.  Am I right?

Sorry to "intrude" but IMHO your missing the point. The network didn´t grow and prosper because of a few "investors" with enough money to take over a considerable amount of combined hashing power. As far as I know, one of the core principles of Bitcoin is the ability of as many participants as possible - the more the merrier. No trust issues because of the big big numbers of participants. The chance to earn new coins now and to earn from fees later. No centralized control. No centralized power over the currency.

When participating with CPU - no problem. Anyone with a computer could participate without considerable cost.
When participating with GPU - no problem. Anyone with a newer computer could participate without considerable cost.
ASICs are not only a completely new game, it´s completely new sport.

When buying shares from whoever, there is nevertheless a centralized huge hashing power beyond the control of many.
When buying ASICs now because of deep pockets of a few and profiting huge in the coming few month and "reinvesting" that money after massiv increase of difficulty bears the risk of centralizing instead of decentralizing.

A lot of people (and I assume the creators of Bitcoins) wanted a currency that depends NOT on the decisions of a few. You can call this "few" government, feds, Bundesbank or Oligipoly of rich ASIC  "investors". Bitcoin is more than a network, more than a way to print your own money and more than a kindergarden of tech-freaks. If the community doesn´t respect the principles, Bitcoin will go down the road of any actual currency. I don't want a "FED" consisting of a handful of miners with hashing power no one with a computer can do anything about.

I trust a network build of thousands of family men with a computer a lot more than a network of elite ASICs.

No offense - just my two cents.

+1

[Bitcoinorama]

I really don't understand the complaint.  I can't afford a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, but I don't whine about it on a public message board.  

If your concern was really about securing the network (as opposed to profit), you would just buy some ASIC Miner shares at an amount you could afford, or even some of the escrowed group buys that people on the forum have been advertising.  Then your money is going toward increased hashing.  I suspect you just want to make a ton of money though, and are bitter that you can't afford to buy an ASIC of your own.  Am I right?

Sorry to "intrude" but IMHO your missing the point. The network didn´t grow and prosper because of a few "investors" with enough money to take over a considerable amount of combined hashing power. As far as I know, one of the core principles of Bitcoin is the ability of as many participants as possible - the more the merrier. No trust issues because of the big big numbers of participants. The chance to earn new coins now and to earn from fees later. No centralized control. No centralized power over the currency.

When participating with CPU - no problem. Anyone with a computer could participate without considerable cost.
When participating with GPU - no problem. Anyone with a newer computer could participate without considerable cost.
ASICs are not only a completely new game, it´s completely new sport.

When buying shares from whoever, there is nevertheless a centralized huge hashing power beyond the control of many.
When buying ASICs now because of deep pockets of a few and profiting huge in the coming few month and "reinvesting" that money after massiv increase of difficulty bears the risk of centralizing instead of decentralizing.

A lot of people (and I assume the creators of Bitcoins) wanted a currency that depends NOT on the decisions of a few. You can call this "few" government, feds, Bundesbank or Oligipoly of rich ASIC  "investors". Bitcoin is more than a network, more than a way to print your own money and more than a kindergarden of tech-freaks. If the community doesn´t respect the principles, Bitcoin will go down the road of any actual currency. I don't want a "FED" consisting of a handful of miners with hashing power no one with a computer can do anything about.

I trust a network build of thousands of family men with a computer a lot more than a network of elite ASICs.

No offense - just my two cents.

+1

[bbxx]

Absolutely overpriced. Paying BTC2.5 for ~300 MH/s or even BTC50 for ~10 GH/s does not make sense. You can get 300 MH/s GPU equivalent for ~BTC1. Sure, the power cost is higher, but this is not the main factor at these initial prices of hardware. Also, GPUs at least have some resale value if you decide to get out. Overall, migrating to the new technology does not make sense yet, as market is far from equilibrium.

I am glad to see not everyone sees things my way, because that is exactly what makes my decision meaningful. Good luck to you all. I will wait for the right opportunity to get some ASICs.

BLades are not so overpriced
for 49.95 btc (shipping free) in 3 days u got 13GH device wchich consumes only 120W

after one month from now they will payoff 16btc

until christmass it will be payed off for sure.

they can have also great resale value after few years. they can be at museum/collectors/auctions

disclaimer
i am erupter blade 1pcs bagholder, happy having silent (noctua fans nf-f12) device matching power of 20 radeons 7970, netbook size
i wouldnt get avalon cause it is noisy and ugly

[blastbob]

The higher price for those Blades and USB, the better

(Got ASICMINER stocks..)

[pikeadz]

I really don't understand the complaint.  I can't afford a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, but I don't whine about it on a public message board.  

If your concern was really about securing the network (as opposed to profit), you would just buy some ASIC Miner shares at an amount you could afford, or even some of the escrowed group buys that people on the forum have been advertising.  Then your money is going toward increased hashing.  I suspect you just want to make a ton of money though, and are bitter that you can't afford to buy an ASIC of your own.  Am I right?

Sorry to "intrude" but IMHO your missing the point. The network didn´t grow and prosper because of a few "investors" with enough money to take over a considerable amount of combined hashing power. As far as I know, one of the core principles of Bitcoin is the ability of as many participants as possible - the more the merrier. No trust issues because of the big big numbers of participants. The chance to earn new coins now and to earn from fees later. No centralized control. No centralized power over the currency.

When participating with CPU - no problem. Anyone with a computer could participate without considerable cost.
When participating with GPU - no problem. Anyone with a newer computer could participate without considerable cost.
ASICs are not only a completely new game, it´s completely new sport.

When buying shares from whoever, there is nevertheless a centralized huge hashing power beyond the control of many.
When buying ASICs now because of deep pockets of a few and profiting huge in the coming few month and "reinvesting" that money after massiv increase of difficulty bears the risk of centralizing instead of decentralizing.

A lot of people (and I assume the creators of Bitcoins) wanted a currency that depends NOT on the decisions of a few. You can call this "few" government, feds, Bundesbank or Oligipoly of rich ASIC  "investors". Bitcoin is more than a network, more than a way to print your own money and more than a kindergarden of tech-freaks. If the community doesn´t respect the principles, Bitcoin will go down the road of any actual currency. I don't want a "FED" consisting of a handful of miners with hashing power no one with a computer can do anything about.

I trust a network build of thousands of family men with a computer a lot more than a network of elite ASICs.

No offense - just my two cents.

Nothing at all in my post suggested centralization.  ASICs are already in the hands of hundreds if not thousands of people.  How do you figure anything close to centralization is going on right now?

Also, what is the problem with waiting a few more months until the price comes down to something he can afford?

This has nothing to do with centralization and everything to do with greed.  He can't have what he wants right now, and therefore it is overpriced in his opinion.

[cryptograd]

$1,500.00 for 68 Gh/s

should've had faith in Yifu

[Bitcoinorama]

I really don't understand the complaint.  I can't afford a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, but I don't whine about it on a public message board.  

If your concern was really about securing the network (as opposed to profit), you would just buy some ASIC Miner shares at an amount you could afford, or even some of the escrowed group buys that people on the forum have been advertising.  Then your money is going toward increased hashing.  I suspect you just want to make a ton of money though, and are bitter that you can't afford to buy an ASIC of your own.  Am I right?

Sorry to "intrude" but IMHO your missing the point. The network didn´t grow and prosper because of a few "investors" with enough money to take over a considerable amount of combined hashing power. As far as I know, one of the core principles of Bitcoin is the ability of as many participants as possible - the more the merrier. No trust issues because of the big big numbers of participants. The chance to earn new coins now and to earn from fees later. No centralized control. No centralized power over the currency.

When participating with CPU - no problem. Anyone with a computer could participate without considerable cost.
When participating with GPU - no problem. Anyone with a newer computer could participate without considerable cost.
ASICs are not only a completely new game, it´s completely new sport.

When buying shares from whoever, there is nevertheless a centralized huge hashing power beyond the control of many.
When buying ASICs now because of deep pockets of a few and profiting huge in the coming few month and "reinvesting" that money after massiv increase of difficulty bears the risk of centralizing instead of decentralizing.

A lot of people (and I assume the creators of Bitcoins) wanted a currency that depends NOT on the decisions of a few. You can call this "few" government, feds, Bundesbank or Oligipoly of rich ASIC  "investors". Bitcoin is more than a network, more than a way to print your own money and more than a kindergarden of tech-freaks. If the community doesn´t respect the principles, Bitcoin will go down the road of any actual currency. I don't want a "FED" consisting of a handful of miners with hashing power no one with a computer can do anything about.

I trust a network build of thousands of family men with a computer a lot more than a network of elite ASICs.

No offense - just my two cents.

Nothing at all in my post suggested centralization.  ASICs are already in the hands of hundreds if not thousands of people.  How do you figure anything close to centralization is going on right now?

Also, what is the problem with waiting a few more months until the price comes down to something he can afford?

This has nothing to do with centralization and everything to do with greed.  He can't have what he wants right now, and therefore it is overpriced in his opinion.

I gotta disagree, it's over priced to make the few (manufacturers) a profit based on all the earnings possible until the point at which they believe real competition is likely to enter, not based on manufacturing costs and reasonable profit. This IS centralisation.

[mmitech]

I really don't understand the complaint.  I can't afford a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, but I don't whine about it on a public message board.  

If your concern was really about securing the network (as opposed to profit), you would just buy some ASIC Miner shares at an amount you could afford, or even some of the escrowed group buys that people on the forum have been advertising.  Then your money is going toward increased hashing.  I suspect you just want to make a ton of money though, and are bitter that you can't afford to buy an ASIC of your own.  Am I right?

Sorry to "intrude" but IMHO your missing the point. The network didn´t grow and prosper because of a few "investors" with enough money to take over a considerable amount of combined hashing power. As far as I know, one of the core principles of Bitcoin is the ability of as many participants as possible - the more the merrier. No trust issues because of the big big numbers of participants. The chance to earn new coins now and to earn from fees later. No centralized control. No centralized power over the currency.

When participating with CPU - no problem. Anyone with a computer could participate without considerable cost.
When participating with GPU - no problem. Anyone with a newer computer could participate without considerable cost.
ASICs are not only a completely new game, it´s completely new sport.

When buying shares from whoever, there is nevertheless a centralized huge hashing power beyond the control of many.
When buying ASICs now because of deep pockets of a few and profiting huge in the coming few month and "reinvesting" that money after massiv increase of difficulty bears the risk of centralizing instead of decentralizing.

A lot of people (and I assume the creators of Bitcoins) wanted a currency that depends NOT on the decisions of a few. You can call this "few" government, feds, Bundesbank or Oligipoly of rich ASIC  "investors". Bitcoin is more than a network, more than a way to print your own money and more than a kindergarden of tech-freaks. If the community doesn´t respect the principles, Bitcoin will go down the road of any actual currency. I don't want a "FED" consisting of a handful of miners with hashing power no one with a computer can do anything about.

I trust a network build of thousands of family men with a computer a lot more than a network of elite ASICs.

No offense - just my two cents.

Nothing at all in my post suggested centralization.  

Also, what is the problem with waiting a few more months until the price comes down to something he can afford?

This has nothing to do with centralization and everything to do with greed.  He can't have what he wants right now, and therefore it is overpriced in his opinion.

Really ! you still insist that they are worth that money ? allot of people here would agree on my point, only some owners of an ASIC are defending their position !!! It is not only about me not able to afford one, you are really ignoring allot of facts here.

[mmitech]

$1,500.00 for 68 Gh/s

should've had faith in Yifu

should be an early adopter, I didnt even know what Bitcoin was when AVALON was taking orders. 

[k9quaint]

Nothing at all in my post suggested centralization.  ASICs are already in the hands of hundreds if not thousands of people.  How do you figure anything close to centralization is going on right now?

Together, ASICMiner and BTCGuild could attempt a 51% attack. Presuming of course that there is some hash power on BTCGuild that is discrete from ASICMiner.
The ASICMiner deployment alone controls over 20% of the network.