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Pumpkin
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November 12, 2013, 09:36:09 PM |
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2013-11-12 on CNBC. "Bitcoin isn't gold 2.0 — it's tulip mania 2.0" http://www.cnbc.com/id/101192216Also mentioning how bitcoin is infinite because it's divisible. However, gold is also divisible and here's him advertising it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cNwaA5sNr8I lost all respect for him. He's either stupid to talk about something he doesn't understand or he is lying. |
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The block chain is the main innovation of Bitcoin. It is the
first distributed timestamping system.
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tvbcof
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November 12, 2013, 10:14:23 PM
Last edit: November 12, 2013, 10:28:05 PM by tvbcof |
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Peter 'failed loser' Schiff again: http://www.cnbc.com/id/101192216edit: Oops. Didn't see the above. Sorry. Anyway, one has to wonder if Schiff has lost his customers more with his bets on the Euro or by talking them out of taking a BTC position an order of two of magnitude ago. |
sig spam anywhere and self-moderated threads on the pol&soc board are for losers.
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bitrider
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November 13, 2013, 03:58:14 AM
Last edit: November 13, 2013, 10:53:28 PM by bitrider |
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Investors have to have a time-frame to make any money at investing. Saying "the US dollar will go to zero" is like saying "the sun is going to burn out". No one will disagree with you if you give an infinite time-frame for it to happen. The dollar is SUPPOSED to go to zero eventually. Continuing to listen to Peter Schiff because "he'll be right eventually" will cause you to lose a lot of money. How long will Schiff listeners keep listening to his bearish rants while ignoring 134% stock market heaters and 10,000% bitcoin price increases? Just listen to someone else. Find someone who knows when to be bearish and bullish on various assets, instead of a permabear who might lose for 100 years before he makes money. Even better, watch an economics course on Khan Academy for free.
+1 Exactly. Well said. And Schiff is not alone. He is just one of many. There are plenty gurus who claim they are still right about their predictions, "but it just has not happened yet". That kind of advice is worse than useless. It makes me think about the "end of the world" folks who predict the rapture on some date, and then when it does not come, they argue that they were still right, but slightly premature on the date. No different. And just as profitable for their followers.  |
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MoonShadow
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November 14, 2013, 01:34:48 AM |
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Well, that radio show completely undermines my own faith in Peter.
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"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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joae1975 (OP)
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November 14, 2013, 01:48:43 AM |
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1PewuG8KZJUPK3CtvAkAs1Uw42rQgUv5Jk
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MoonShadow
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November 14, 2013, 02:18:05 AM |
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That's not what I'm talking about at all. On that point, Peter is correct. Bitcoin is not gold, but nor is it fiat. It's something altogether new and different from either, that is designed to do the best job of either. What I'm talking about is Peter's talk about intrinsic value. Not only is gold's "intrinsic value" such a small part of it's market value as to be practically irrelevent, he argues that bitcoin's don't have an intrinsic value economicly. I can easily prove that they do. The only kind of intrinsic value of anything, is how useful it is to the marketplace. While gold does have physical properties that are useful to industry, and silver has chemical properties useful to both industry and medicine; neither of these 'intrinsic' uses have value to the market to compete with their monetary uses, because the market will always be looking for methods of achieving the same ends using cheaper inputs. A great example is the use of silver in antibacterial products; while it works great and has been well known to medicine for over a century, silver is not often used in medicine except in the most dire of applications, wherein our modern anti-bacterial sciences fail us too regularly. I.E. Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus Aureus While bitcoins have no physical properties to exploit, they were designed to significantly uncut the market costs of the transfer of value over distances. This 'feature' alone provides bitcoin's "intrinsic value", even if it's next least expensive competitor in kind is what most determines what that "intrinsic value" should actually be. Neither Visa nor Western-Union have the power to undercut Bitcoin in this market, without first becoming Bitcoin themselves. And that is not even considering the "intrinsic value" of blockchain enforcible digital contracts, should they ever become common. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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tvbcof
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November 14, 2013, 03:31:44 AM |
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Man, Peter sound but-hurt. I almost feel a little sorry for him.
The guy at least gets that 'one Bitcoin' is just a matter of setting a decimal point so he beats about 90% of people, but that's definitely a 'thinnest kid at fat camp' sort of a thing. He has yet to put a little arithmetic into the problem though.
Yo, Pete: Try this:
Fiat: backed by law.
Gold: backed by physics.
Bitcoin: backed by mathematics.
Gold and Bitcoin are very similar when compared to fiat.
BTW, it is true that Bitcoin has all kinds of potential failure modes. Any smart person will have a plan to diversify and stay diversified as we ride. The trouble is that you clearly have no clue about what any of the failure modes are. You should shut up about it and watch from the sidelines until you do or you will keep sounding like a jackass...mainly because you are being a jackass.
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sig spam anywhere and self-moderated threads on the pol&soc board are for losers.
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dmartig
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November 14, 2013, 04:35:54 AM |
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I got a question to counter this.
What is the intrinsic value of fiat money? It is made of paper, some coins of different metals, but most of it is digital.
the intrinsic value of fiat currency is the btu's you can extract when you burn it. (that is about 3-5% of our currency supply. the rest is just pixels on a screen. btw fiat is not money . money is defined by the US constitution as specie of gold and silver. there have been over 3000 fiat currencies that have gone the way of the dodo |
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dmartig
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November 14, 2013, 04:37:20 AM |
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peter schiff is a smart guy but he is comparing apples to oranges when he compares bitcoin to gold. no one uses gold as money anymore.
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MoonShadow
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November 14, 2013, 05:08:14 AM |
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peter schiff is a smart guy but he is comparing apples to oranges when he compares bitcoin to gold. no one uses gold as money anymore. While that's a cute little retort, it's not actually true. A great many people, both wealthy and otherwise, do use gold as money, or at least as a "store of value". http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article43069.htmlAnd India is far from the only group to continue to value gold for it's monetary properties. The "western" nations are fairly unique in the total abandonment of hard currency principles in favor of ever increasing abstractions. While the average, middle classs American adult has near zero experience with gold or silver coins, that's not true for the average, middle class Chinese adult or the average middle class South American adult. There is a high, and perhaps even deserved, trust in the US federal reserver note as well as the Euro. That trust can turn in an instant. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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joae1975 (OP)
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November 14, 2013, 07:19:17 AM |
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So who here (btc community) will step up and call his radio show and debate his position on bitcoin? I can't do it, I suck. I get it but I'll choke up on the air. Who can best debate Peter? Max Keiser? Peter was just on Max's show in London. http://youtu.be/MNXmL771mBA I'm sure Max would return the favor. |
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joae1975 (OP)
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November 14, 2013, 09:14:46 AM |
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Awesome! Eric Voorhees has been on the Peter Schiff Show. This is going to be good. I forwarded the link to Peter. He's responded to my messages (or his rep) before so I know he gets them. |
1PewuG8KZJUPK3CtvAkAs1Uw42rQgUv5Jk
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joae1975 (OP)
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November 14, 2013, 03:31:51 PM |
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People are calling Peter's show on bitcoin today. I'll post later. I'm really curious what Peter will say when he gets his "ah huh" moment.
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Zarathustra
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November 14, 2013, 05:04:19 PM |
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Man, Peter sound but-hurt. I almost feel a little sorry for him.
The guy at least gets that 'one Bitcoin' is just a matter of setting a decimal point so he beats about 90% of people, but that's definitely a 'thinnest kid at fat camp' sort of a thing. He has yet to put a little arithmetic into the problem though.
Yo, Pete: Try this:
Fiat: backed by law.
Gold: backed by physics.
Bitcoin: backed by mathematics.
Gold and Bitcoin are very similar when compared to fiat.
You can choose as money what you want. It was always valued in debt and debt is backed by the law of the state mafia. No state: no debt. No debt: no value of FIAT/Gold/Bitcoin. |
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420
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November 15, 2013, 12:46:54 AM |
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Peter Schiff debated Trace Mayer already, or had the chance, video: http://fmtblog.com/?p=12141 |
Donations: 1JVhKjUKSjBd7fPXQJsBs5P3Yphk38AqPr - TIPS
the hacks, the hacks, secure your bits!
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tvbcof
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November 15, 2013, 01:10:07 AM |
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Man, Peter sound but-hurt. I almost feel a little sorry for him.
The guy at least gets that 'one Bitcoin' is just a matter of setting a decimal point so he beats about 90% of people, but that's definitely a 'thinnest kid at fat camp' sort of a thing. He has yet to put a little arithmetic into the problem though.
Yo, Pete: Try this:
Fiat: backed by law.
Gold: backed by physics.
Bitcoin: backed by mathematics.
Gold and Bitcoin are very similar when compared to fiat.
You can choose as money what you want. It was always valued in debt and debt is backed by the law of the state mafia. No state: no debt. No debt: no value of FIAT/Gold/Bitcoin. Actually, this (misconception) points out very clearly why Bitcoin/Gold are on the same side opposite modern day fiat. Modern day fiat monetary systems are almost all 'debt based'. The currency is actually created by someone going into debt and extinguished by someone going out of debt through one means or another. The paradox is that if there were not debt, there would be no money. This explains, among other things, why pretty much everyone and every corporate and government is in debt. Bitcoin and PM's (physically held) are not created this way. They have no 'counter-party'. Nobody can default and make the holder lose their value. |
sig spam anywhere and self-moderated threads on the pol&soc board are for losers.
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MoonShadow
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November 15, 2013, 04:54:48 AM |
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The bitcoin defenders are poor in understanding here, particularly the first one, but Peter does make some good points here. Gold cannot go to a use value of zero, while it's possible that Bitcoins can. Granted, if gold were to drop to it's 'intrinsic value' it would be somewhat comparable to the value of lead, maybe slightly more due to much lower toxicity, but close. Considering that refined lead is under a dollar a pound right now, that would represent something on the order of a 99.99% loss in value. "You didn't lose everything, you've still got .01% of your life savings! Don't Jump!" While it's possible for bitcoins to go to zero, the only way that happens now is if there is some tragic & unfixable flaw discovered in the protocol that gives Bitcoin it's 'intrinsic value' to start with. Again, possible; but the tragic and unfixable flaws with using electronic precious metal deposit receipts as an online trade currency are, if not altogether obvious, already demonstrated by the folding of both Egold.com and the persecution of the Liberty Dollar. Governments will not suffer any competitor to exist if they can help it, but they can't help it with Bitcoin. That last caller seemed to know his stuff, but was cut off by Peter before he could actually finish the argument. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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