#NO2X - JOIN THE WAR!

[bitcub]

2x update without a replay protection is no joke. Hope someone will balls with strong market influence standup? Somebody save bitcoin. Our dreams will be ruin by these selfish investors who wants to hardfork btc.

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[romani245]

1. The bold ones are = Wallets, Exchanges. Start with getting your bitcoins out of these sites and never use them again. Send them an email and tell them leave the Segwit2x agreement.

Why should they leave the Segwit2x agreement when you guys wont be using them again anyway? Thats the problem with you guys, you dont follow even simple logic. You just prove one thing though: it is better to ignore the brigading and manipulation.

Yeah, I'm really tired of the BIP148/NO2X crowd and I sort of wish at this point that they forked off with Luke 2 months ago and left the rest of us alone. They act like they own Bitcoin because of a couple-thousand-strong Twitter bubble.

They said BIP148 "is Bitcoin" because "Twitter consensus." And they pushed us to the brink of a permanent split so they could force hasty consensus change. That was a straight-up attack on my interests as long term holder. They are dead to me. They are attackers in my eyes. Just like the Segwit2x guys.

Fuck 2X and fuck NO2X. Those who promoted BIP148 (i.e. basically everyone backing NO2X) are just forkers to me. Forkers can fuck off.

[illyiller]

Even if a large amount of noise is purely down to the usual suspects, the amount of people objecting to this can't be ignored. I don't see how they can carry on with this plan when there's so much screeching.

Their stated aim was to keep everyone happy, even though it was clear swathes of people weren't initially consulted, but that's now definitively in the crapper.

The bigger issue: the community is completely fractured and I feel that the threatened BIP148 split brought everything to a head. It opened Pandora's box. The extreme side of the small blocker camp forced the community to decide between seeing them permanently fork off, or going along with their changes to the consensus rules.

Miners/industry/some users are now doing the same exact thing with Segwit2x: "permanent split or implement our consensus changes." Is anyone really surprised by this after the August drama?

You can put me squarely in the "neutral/status quo" camp. The NO2X camp absolutely does not speak for me, and as someone pointed out, they actively attacked my interests with the fork drama a couple months back. (Do you have any idea how many top buyers they probably got to sell below $2000 based on their forking threats and the resulting uncertainty?)

The silent majority is silent. Stop trying to speak for us, NO2X. Your Twitter brigade doesn't represent millions of Bitcoin users.

[squatter]

2x update without a replay protection is no joke. Hope someone will balls with strong market influence standup? Somebody save bitcoin. Our dreams will be ruin by these selfish investors who wants to hardfork btc.

There will at least be opt-in replay protection. Basically, for a transaction to be valid on the legacy chain but invalid on the Segwit2x chain, users need to include an output in their transaction to this address: 3Bit1xA4apyzgmFNT2k8Pvnd6zb6TnwcTi

Doing so will therefore split your legacy coins from your Segwit2x coins. Your legacy coins will be in the new address, your Segwit2x coins will remain in the old address (because the splitting transaction is invalid on Segwit2x chain).

You will want to move your Legacy coins first to new addresses (your Legacy wallet), but each of these transactions will have to send a small amount to 3Bit1xA4apyzgmFNT2k8Pvnd6zb6TnwcTi. If you don’t care much about privacy, you can make one giant transaction that sends all your current bitcoins to another address or set of addresses. Just make sure a small amount is sent to 3Bit1xA4apyzgmFNT2k8Pvnd6zb6TnwcTi.

After that, you can send your 2x coins to different addresses and that would be your 2x wallet.

https://bitcointechtalk.com/how-segwit2x-replay-protection-works-1a5e41767103

[faithupgrade]

I may not be fully understand whats really happening inside the core. But as a Bitcoin holder, devs must have a strong guts and balls to fight what is right. Let the decision of the whole community prevails not the decision of few rich investors. As I can see this is to cast fear to have the btc price drop.

[marky89]

Also, there other big players in this game who haven't said a word about 2x;

Bitmex, Bitfinex, Bittrex, HitBTC, Poloniex, Gdax, Bitstamp. > Their 24hr volume for today is 253.266 BTC(combined).

This exchanges will also play big part in November. They usually talk and decide together. So we'll see how thing will roll at November.

One clarification to be made here: GDAX and Bitflyer are part of the New York Agreement. If you weren't aware, GDAX = Coinbase (the former is their order book exchange interface, the latter is their simplified broker interface). GDAX is the largest US exchange on the market. Bitflyer is the largest Japanese exchange on the market, and fluctuates within the Top 3 exchanges in the world for volume.

That's not an endorsement of 2X by me. I'm just saying that we can't act like major exchanges "haven't said a word about 2X." Shapeshift and several major wallet services like Blockchain, Jaxx and Xapo are also signed onto the deal. That's nothing to sneeze at!

[101111]

The silent majority is silent. Stop trying to speak for us, NO2X. Your Twitter brigade doesn't represent millions of Bitcoin users.

That's hypocritical, you also can't speak for the silent majority, and you're not silent. Not only that, casting the opinions of twitter users as 'brigading' is disingenuous, an outright lie unless you have any proof.

[hatshepsut93]

Also, there other big players in this game who haven't said a word about 2x;

Bitmex, Bitfinex, Bittrex, HitBTC, Poloniex, Gdax, Bitstamp. > Their 24hr volume for today is 253.266 BTC(combined).

This exchanges will also play big part in November. They usually talk and decide together. So we'll see how thing will roll at November.

One clarification to be made here: GDAX and Bitflyer are part of the New York Agreement. If you weren't aware, GDAX = Coinbase (the former is their order book exchange interface, the latter is their simplified broker interface). GDAX is the largest US exchange on the market. Bitflyer is the largest Japanese exchange on the market, and fluctuates within the Top 3 exchanges in the world for volume.

That's not an endorsement of 2X by me. I'm just saying that we can't act like major exchanges "haven't said a word about 2X." Shapeshift and several major wallet services like Blockchain, Jaxx and Xapo are also signed onto the deal. That's nothing to sneeze at!

Miners and some services seem to be forgetting the golden rule of business that the customer is always right - they (NYA signatories) who are supposed to be following the demand instead of trying to dictate it. What they are trying to do (if they will have enough courage to actually do it - fully move to 2x chain) is extremely risky and stupid - if community won't follow them to 2x chain, they will suffer massive loses. But community doesn't risk much - sure such exodus would be disruptive, but eventually Bitcoin will go back to normal and new miners and services will fill up the vacuum - Bitcoin community will just have to wait.

[FiendCoin]

if you guys have not woken up already.. its all a f**king bait and switch campaign..

the BSCartell (silbert AND blockstream) are in it together. WAKE UP

its the pretend 'choice' to make sheep think its freedom and decentralised but the whole thing is just pushing bitcoin away from satoshi's open vision and down segwit one way street of BSCartel control

either way it plays out BSCartel win and decentralisation is lost.

wake up.

BScartel are meandering dcentralisation.. into meaning purely centralised distribution. which is totally different ideals than what the ethos and reason bitcoin was invented for.

.. and yes i expect the usual propoganda crap from the bscartel shills protecting their friends

Bitcoin Cash not affected.

I see franky and fookballz still shilling hard with their alt accounts.

2x will be a failure just like bcash.

The crypto-space is so full of shit. So many agendas, so little time.

[Vatimins]

Thank you for this info op, I have read responses from various people and asked a lot of my colleagues about this issue and I really think you state a valid point. This is really dangerous for us who love bitcoin as it is. We really have to take action now and stop these bastards in ruining sotoshi’s vision that has been passed along from people to people. Let us join forces to defend bitcoin. We have to.

[TakeTheSkyRoad]

Just wanted to add my voice since I don't really post here anymore after migrating to reddit.

The Segwit2x fork has been agreed with the miners and still has massive support with > 95% of all blocks tagged as Segwit2x.

Only a small number of companies have explicitly said they will not support Segwit2x and mostly these are Blockstream owned or have caved in to pressure from the Twitter fake account NO2X campaign.

There are some companies the NO2X crowd are claiming as on their side when all they have done is express reservations about the lack of replay protection. Which frankly I don't think should be added, this isn't a fork to create a new coin. This is a fork to enforce an agreed protocol change. A form of replay protection has just been merged so it will be interesting what these companies say now.
Example : https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/740son/nya_signer_uk_company_crypto_facilities_pulls/

The vast majority of all companies in the Bitcoin space have stayed silent and are sticking by long established statements that they will be following the "longest chain". That's the longest chain of whatever is agreed to be "Bitcoin" and in roughly 6 weeks time that may have 2Mb blocks.

Are all the core developers going to quit because of this ? No, they have jobs and careers established and most won't be going anywhere so they will just start working on an implementation which in compatible with Segwit2x and which also brings in the changes they want to see introduced. This could be the segwit2x code base or it could be a branch from the core code.

The minority of very very vocal developers who are against this may decide to leave the community but this may be because they have taken very strong stances which they don't feel they can back down from. If this is the case then I don't see this as a big loss. If you can't be pragmatic in a community project and accept "your" grand idea might not have made the final cut then the community is probably better off without you.

Certain people within the NO2X crowd (inc. developers) have talked about a change to the POW algo. or switching to Proof of Stake.  This is up to them but in my opinion this is an even bigger change than amending a blocksize cap and anything new implementation with those changes won't be Bitcoin.  With one or two exceptions I think this is a bluff anyway.

This is the first real test if the mining consensus designed into Bitcoin from the start will actually work and I can't help but think that Satoshi (whoever they are) are watching this on the edge of their seat with a big bucket of popcorn. That'd better be good popcorn because it's been really hard watching this drag on for so many years.

Patience though, not long now !

[rifiuti]

Also, there other big players in this game who haven't said a word about 2x;

Bitmex, Bitfinex, Bittrex, HitBTC, Poloniex, Gdax, Bitstamp. > Their 24hr volume for today is 253.266 BTC(combined).

This exchanges will also play big part in November. They usually talk and decide together. So we'll see how thing will roll at November.

One clarification to be made here: GDAX and Bitflyer are part of the New York Agreement. If you weren't aware, GDAX = Coinbase (the former is their order book exchange interface, the latter is their simplified broker interface). GDAX is the largest US exchange on the market. Bitflyer is the largest Japanese exchange on the market, and fluctuates within the Top 3 exchanges in the world for volume.

That's not an endorsement of 2X by me. I'm just saying that we can't act like major exchanges "haven't said a word about 2X." Shapeshift and several major wallet services like Blockchain, Jaxx and Xapo are also signed onto the deal. That's nothing to sneeze at!

Shapeshift, Xapo, Jaxx, Blockchain, Bitflyer are on the list but GDAX is not there.

[rifiuti]

Just wanted to add my voice since I don't really post here anymore after migrating to reddit.

The Segwit2x fork has been agreed with the miners and still has massive support with > 95% of all blocks tagged as Segwit2x.

Only a small number of companies have explicitly said they will not support Segwit2x and mostly these are Blockstream owned or have caved in to pressure from the Twitter fake account NO2X campaign.

There are some companies the NO2X crowd are claiming as on their side when all they have done is express reservations about the lack of replay protection. Which frankly I don't think should be added, this isn't a fork to create a new coin. This is a fork to enforce an agreed protocol change. A form of replay protection has just been merged so it will be interesting what these companies say now.
Example : https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/740son/nya_signer_uk_company_crypto_facilities_pulls/

The vast majority of all companies in the Bitcoin space have stayed silent and are sticking by long established statements that they will be following the "longest chain". That's the longest chain of whatever is agreed to be "Bitcoin" and in roughly 6 weeks time that may have 2Mb blocks.

Are all the core developers going to quit because of this ? No, they have jobs and careers established and most won't be going anywhere so they will just start working on an implementation which in compatible with Segwit2x and which also brings in the changes they want to see introduced. This could be the segwit2x code base or it could be a branch from the core code.

The minority of very very vocal developers who are against this may decide to leave the community but this may be because they have taken very strong stances which they don't feel they can back down from. If this is the case then I don't see this as a big loss. If you can't be pragmatic in a community project and accept "your" grand idea might not have made the final cut then the community is probably better off without you.

Certain people within the NO2X crowd (inc. developers) have talked about a change to the POW algo. or switching to Proof of Stake.  This is up to them but in my opinion this is an even bigger change than amending a blocksize cap and anything new implementation with those changes won't be Bitcoin.  With one or two exceptions I think this is a bluff anyway.

This is the first real test if the mining consensus designed into Bitcoin from the start will actually work and I can't help but think that Satoshi (whoever they are) are watching this on the edge of their seat with a big bucket of popcorn. That'd better be good popcorn because it's been really hard watching this drag on for so many years.

Patience though, not long now !

You may have a point but there is a few thing that I disagree;

1. %90 of the hashpower; Just like BCH, Similar scenario will happen in November. This is technically a hardfork. There will be legacy chain and 2x chain and companies who signed to agreement will switch to 2x. 2x nodes will be rejected by Core regardless what they try to do. Miners mine what is most profitable.

2. Political Games; Look, we all know that this agreement was never about blocksize. We all know that. You want big blocks? Go BCH you've got 8MB blocks there. You want Segwit? Here you got it. With latest upgrade blocksize is already big enough. They might tell you that this deal is about blocksize but actually it's all about firing the core devs and controlling trillions of money flow.

They said "The only way to get smarter is by playing a smarter opponent." If Core survives it will more hard to take down. If not, I will keep supporting the legacy chain.

[Zorbak]

Before it could make sense the NYA as they want bigger blocks. Since the for of BCH already have 2 options... So to continue with 2x without replay protection it's just an assault to BTC.

If most people don't use 2x miners they will switch to BTC. But even many sign for 2x I won't trust them until moment arrives as it's very possible that they change at the last minute

[TakeTheSkyRoad]

1. %90 of the hashpower; Just like BCH, Similar scenario will happen in November. This is technically a hardfork. There will be legacy chain and 2x chain and companies who signed to agreement will switch to 2x. 2x nodes will be rejected by Core regardless what they try to do. Miners mine what is most profitable.

The Bitcoin Cash fork has the Emergency Difficulty Adjustment logic as they knew they were going to be a minority chain. This time neither the Segwit2x fork or the Core fork is going to have anything like this so I don't think there will be any comparison. This is a new experience.

I'm sure we can agree that the fork with the highest hash power will be paying rewards out more frequently. However the unknown quantity here is how much those rewards will be worth in Fiat (say $$) and this will remain unknown until probably right up to the closing days. None of the large exchanges have yet formally confirmed how they'll be handling this fork or if the minority chain (whichever it is) will be tradeable. We might not see this until the hours or the day after the event.

As a final note I know they have bills to pay but a Miner which prefers rewards in Bitcoin over Fiat is always going to command more respect because it shows they have faith in the network they are giving the hash power to.

2. Political Games; Look, we all know that this agreement was never about blocksize. We all know that. You want big blocks? Go BCH you've got 8MB blocks there. You want Segwit? Here you got it. With latest upgrade blocksize is already big enough. They might tell you that this deal is about blocksize but actually it's all about firing the core devs and controlling trillions of money flow.

They said "The only way to get smarter is by playing a smarter opponent." If Core survives it will more hard to take down. If not, I will keep supporting the legacy chain.

Bitcoin is resistant to control and if it wasn't there wouldn't have been so many years of debate, round tables, publicity campaigns and general toxicity. Besides, I don't think "core" is all that centralised anyway and many developers outside of the vocal few don't ultimately care if the blocksize cap is 1Mb or 2Mb.
I don't disagree this is about control but I would suggest it's easier to control a restricted and congested network than it is one with capacity to expand.

You paint a black and white choice between 8Mb blocks and Segwit but this doesn't exist. Some people want to see Segwit implemented and would also like to see 2Mb blocks and that's what happening now.

Segwit was never a blocksize increase. It was a transaction malleability fix with a blocksize benefit and even now weeks after activating the "real" blocksize (inc. witness data) is very rarely making it over 1.1Mb  You might want to point out that's with low adoption and you'd be right as that seems to be holding around 7% at the moment but if segwit was the awesome solution "everyone" wanted then why isn't it 50% ? Maybe the rest of the community/network doesn't really care about segwit after all.

[Paashaas]

This NYA is just a smoke sreen to save face for the miners, 2x will flop. There is not enough support, the code is unworthy, no economic nodes and Jeff Garzik has commited computer fraud/abuse yesterday wich is a nail in 2x coffin.

Bcash will fail hard because of EDA.

Bgold is another free airdrop.

Classic, BU, 2x, Bcash, XT all have failed, Bitcoin will be just fine, this 2x shitshow is the last obstacle before moving on.

[rifiuti]

[Zorbak]

This NYA is just a smoke sreen to save face for the miners, 2x will flop. There is not enough support, the code is unworthy, no economic nodes and Jeff Garzik has commited computer fraud/abuse yesterday wich is a nail in 2x coffin.

Bcash will fail hard because of EDA.

Bgold is another free airdrop.

Classic, BU, 2x, Bcash, XT all have failed, Bitcoin will be just fine, this 2x shitshow is the last obstacle before moving on.

Bcash survives because of EDA

[mindrust]

I am running a full node from core (0.15.0) and -that's important- i do have my bitcoins in my node wallet. I do send/receive my bitcoins from/to that wallet.

By running a full node and using the node wallet, you  verify the transactions your own without having to trust anybody/any other service.

I don't care how big a company is, they just can't make you accept their set of rules by force. We users made coinbase or the others corps great, it is not the otherway.

Run a full node, secure your coins your own. If you have a miner lying around, that's even better. Run it too as long as it is not too outdated.

Don't trust, verify. -Satoshi Nakamoto

[jonald_fyookball]

This NYA is just a smoke sreen to save face for the miners, 2x will flop. There is not enough support, the code is unworthy, no economic nodes and Jeff Garzik has commited computer fraud/abuse yesterday wich is a nail in 2x coffin.

Bcash will fail hard because of EDA.

Bgold is another free airdrop.

Classic, BU, 2x, Bcash, XT all have failed, Bitcoin will be just fine, this 2x shitshow is the last obstacle before moving on.

I'm wondering whether or not you realize that Bitcoin per the core roadmap isn't even going to be peer to peer money any more , by design?

I'm also wondering whether you realize that the 'computer fraud' accusations are trolling/politiking?  No one has been defrauded.