#NO2X - JOIN THE WAR!

[rifiuti]

https://bitcoin.org/en/posts/denounce-segwit2x

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[hatshepsut93]

Many people, myself including, view SegWit2x as an attack on Bitcoin, but any attack can also be viewed as a test. For example, the most recent Bcash was also a test - it has proven that Bitcoin can withstand hashrate swings and that miners can't dictate community what to do - users and services didn't start switching to Bcash even though it offers much cheaper fees. As the result, both Bitcoins value and the network were not affected by competing chain. So, SegWit2x would be a similar test - it will show whether corporations and mining cartels can influence the network and its user, or if it's the users who are deciding the future of Bitcoin.

There are some pretty critical differences between Bitcoin Cash and Segwit2x from an ethical standpoint. I view Segwit2x as much more of an attack. BCH integrated strong replay protection, made no attempt to coordinate a supermajority of Bitcoin's hashpower, and presented itself from the start essentially as an altcoin.

Segwit2x is being presented by Garzik and company as an "upgrade." There is only opt-in replay protection, which means many people will probably lose money. And they are trying to coordinate mining power to coerce users into migrating to the Segwit2x chain.

As much as I dislike Bitmain, there's really no comparing Bitcoin Cash and Segwit2x. One of them is just an altcoin; the other is an attack. I'd only consider BCH to be an attack if LTC and all other Bitcoin forks were considered attacks.

Don't forget that BCH was very rushed, the decision to create this fork was made just days before SegWit signalling period, so they had no time and opportunity to consolidate miner and service support. But if you visit /r/BTC, a lot of people there believe that Bcash is the real Bitcoin because it's true to Satoshi's vision, and that SegWit was a corporate takeover by Blockstream. So, it actually is an attack on Bitcoin, it just didn't grew big because it was based on some insane conspiracy theories with no technical proofs. And at some point more than 35% of Bitcoin miners migrated to Bcash for a short period of time, which caused some disruptions in BTC network. In my mind, anything that for some reason has "Bitcoin" name in it can be viewed as malicious brand hijacking, no matter if it's an altcoin or contentious hard fork, because this just creates confusion for newbies, which is exactly the goal of forkers.

[exstasie]

In my mind, anything that for some reason has "Bitcoin" name in it can be viewed as malicious brand hijacking, no matter if it's an altcoin or contentious hard fork, because this just creates confusion for newbies, which is exactly the goal of forkers.

I don't really buy that argument. I'm against Segwit2x, but nobody has ownership of the name. I think attempts to own the name "Bitcoin" (in the sense of intellectual property) goes against what Bitcoin stands for, as the enforcement of IP requires centralized authority and state intervention. It creates confusion for newbies, true. But I don't think that qualifies as an attack. I'm okay with the idea of openly competing forks.

But I agree with those who think that miner coordination adds an element of coercion, since 1) users fear being on the weaker chain and 2) users need confirmations. Miners leveraging these fears and economic needs can be seen as an attack.

[Zorbak]

In my mind, anything that for some reason has "Bitcoin" name in it can be viewed as malicious brand hijacking, no matter if it's an altcoin or contentious hard fork, because this just creates confusion for newbies, which is exactly the goal of forkers.

I don't really buy that argument. I'm against Segwit2x, but nobody has ownership of the name. I think attempts to own the name "Bitcoin" (in the sense of intellectual property) goes against what Bitcoin stands for, as the enforcement of IP requires centralized authority and state intervention. It creates confusion for newbies, true. But I don't think that qualifies as an attack. I'm okay with the idea of openly competing forks.

But I agree with those who think that miner coordination adds an element of coercion, since 1) users fear being on the weaker chain and 2) users need confirmations. Miners leveraging these fears and economic needs can be seen as an attack.

Well nobody has ownership in name of BTC, they do not have copyright ok but BTC belongs who develops it, so the actual BTC.

If you have enough power mining you can then take away the name of any altcoin for example and keep it for yourself?

I understand what do you mean but in somehow they "own it", the community own it. It is an open source project and anyone who want to contribute can do it, so just appropiate the name to someone else work does not makes sense. Well it makes sense for them as they "steal" something that already works.

I can give many examples but just got in mind even it is not the same topic but can be something similar when BCH forks and they copy Electrum wallet for BCH (finally they change the name to Electron). Electrum does not care they copy the code but to appropiate of their name it is not honest at all.

[rifiuti]

2x Countdown; http://bashco.github.io/2x_Countdown/

[eaLiTy]

Don't forget that BCH was very rushed, the decision to create this fork was made just days before SegWit signalling period, so they had no time and opportunity to consolidate miner and service support. But if you visit /r/BTC, a lot of people there believe that Bcash is the real Bitcoin because it's true to Satoshi's vision, and that SegWit was a corporate takeover by Blockstream.

The announcement of bitcoin cash was really late,everyone who is against block stream believes that BCH is the real version of bitcoin ,the price does not necessarily denotes what is the best solution ,i am an advocate of better technology and which team produces the best solution for any given issue regarding bitcoin development must join together rather than fighting apart and forking a new coin when ever there is an upgrade.

[marky89]

Don't forget that BCH was very rushed, the decision to create this fork was made just days before SegWit signalling period, so they had no time and opportunity to consolidate miner and service support. But if you visit /r/BTC, a lot of people there believe that Bcash is the real Bitcoin because it's true to Satoshi's vision, and that SegWit was a corporate takeover by Blockstream.

The announcement of bitcoin cash was really late,everyone who is against block stream believes that BCH is the real version of bitcoin ,the price does not necessarily denotes what is the best solution ,i am an advocate of better technology and which team produces the best solution for any given issue regarding bitcoin development must join together rather than fighting apart and forking a new coin when ever there is an upgrade.

The fact that BCH's "emergency difficulty adjustment" parameter led to periods of massive hyperinflation followed by periods where it takes hours to find blocks, I'd say they haven't stumbled onto "better technology." In fact, there is an open pull request in their Github to address their disastrous changes. The EDA was basically all they did besides increasing the block size limit.

And it turns out that increase was unnecessary since their average block size is like 50 kB.

[countryfree]

Bitfinex has chosen today that if there's a hard fork, BTC will still be known an traded as BTC, while the Segwit2x fork will be known, and traded, as B2X.

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/223

Somehow, this is scary. Hard forks should be exceptional. We should not see a hard fork every quarter. This is damaging for BTC.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

[Webetcoins]

https://bitcoin.org/en/posts/denounce-segwit2x

I really don’t know that what is going to be happen and how to take the help from the given site but I think the price of the bitcoin is now very high and almost all the people can make money from the bitcoin and it is really hypocritical and they majority of the people are wandering for the perfect and  full answer so do I.

[rifiuti]

Here is the list of companies who said #NO2X > http://nob2x.org/

[25hashcoin]

Bitcoin Cash is the real Bitcoin.

[rifiuti]

Bitcoin Cash is the real Bitcoin.

Sure buddy. You keep praising to holy Andresen at your thread.

[rifiuti]

2x or NO2X: Why Some Want to Hard Fork Bitcoin — and Why Others Do Not: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/2x-or-no2x-why-some-want-hard-fork-bitcoin-november-and-why-others-dont/

[1Referee]

Somehow, this is scary. Hard forks should be exceptional. We should not see a hard fork every quarter. This is damaging for BTC.

I totally agree with that, but we know that in current days, exchanges aren't going to decline an opportunity to generate huge loads of volume, and thus will list it anyway. Another aspect is the pressure coming from people that are desperate to get it listed so they can cash their split coins out, trade them, shove them in their (you know what), or whatever. Same basically goes up for online wallet services - they need to go with it in order to not fall behind and potentially piss off their customers. It's sad that malicious entities are toying around with Bitcoin for their own financial gain, but that's the time we are living in - greed dictates the market, and there is literally nothing that can stop this.

[marky89]

Here is the list of companies who said #NO2X > http://nob2x.org/

It's not a very impressive list at all. I really can't tell if the NYA is going to come crashing down in flames, or if the companies will double down in support of the fork. My suspicion is that the Mike Belches and Brian Armstrongs in the discussion believe that the market will react very strongly to a supermajority of miners switching chains. They may not be wrong about that; we need to wait and see.

Personally, I'm pretty nervous. I'd love to see everyone back out and call the whole thing off. But I think Bitmain is interested in the Core chain appearing weaker POW-wise, so it could get messy.

[jrobi4life]

November is the date when Corporate people will try to takeover Bitcoin.

They tried to do the same thing in July, they couldn't do it. Now this time they will attack much more harder.

This time, it's not going to be as smooth as July. There will be no replay protection.

Some will support the original Bitcoin, some will support 2x. Community will be divided!

People who have no technical understanding will lose their Bitcoins!

Support the CORE! Support Decentralized Bitcoin!

No Bitcoin Developer supports the Segwit2x;



Here is the companies who said "YES" to 2x;

1Hash (China)
Abra (United States)
ANX (Hong Kong)
Bitangel.com /Chandler Guo (China)
BitClub Network (Hong Kong)
Bitcoin.com (St. Kitts & Nevis)
Bitex (Argentina)
bitFlyer (Japan)
Bitfury (United States)
Bitmain (China)
BitPay (United States)
BitPesa (Kenya)
BitOasis (United Arab Emirates)
Bitso (Mexico)
Bitwala (Germany)
Bixin.com (China)
Blockchain (UK)
Bloq (United States)
btc.com (China)
BTC.TOP (China)
BTER.com (China)
Circle (United States)
Civic (United States)
Coinbase (United States)
Coins.ph (Phillipines)
Decentral (Canada)
Digital Currency Group (United States)
Filament (United States)
Genesis Global Trading (United States)
Genesis Mining (Hong Kong)
GoCoin (Isle of Man)
Grayscale Investments (United States)
Jaxx (Canada)
Korbit (South Korea)
Luno (Singapore)
MONI (Finland)
Netki (United States)
OB1 (United States)
Purse (United States)
Ripio (Argentina)
Safello (Sweden)
SFOX (United States)
ShapeShift (Switzerland)
surBTC (Chile)
Unocoin (India)
Veem (United States)
Xapo (United States)
Yours (United States)

Here is what you need to do if you want to support decentralized Bitcoin;

1. The bold ones are = Wallets, Exchanges. Start with getting your bitcoins out of these sites and never use them again. Send them an email and tell them leave the Segwit2x agreement.

2. Download the Bitcoin Core Wallet and run a full node!


Get Educated About Segwit2x, READ MORE AND LEARN MORE!

“That’s not Bitcoin, this is Bitcoin.” > https://medium.com/@StopAndDecrypt/thats-not-bitcoin-this-is-bitcoin-95f05a6fd6c2

Don’t Be On The Wrong Side of Bitcoin History > https://medium.com/@Austerity_Sucks/open-letter-to-segwit2x-supporters-dont-be-on-the-wrong-side-of-bitcoin-history-acef69416422

Segwit2x the Broken Agreement > https://medium.com/@WhalePanda/segwit2x-the-broken-agreement-e9035a453c05

My Thoughts on Your Thoughts(Open Letter to Shapeshift's Founder) > https://medium.com/@thepiratewhocantbenamed/my-thoughts-on-your-thoughts-17474d800dda

Shillbert Lies > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-segwit2x/2017-September/000304.html

I think this will just be one small battle in a war of many many forks. 

[MAbtc]

Somehow, this is scary. Hard forks should be exceptional. We should not see a hard fork every quarter. This is damaging for BTC.

I totally agree with that, but we know that in current days, exchanges aren't going to decline an opportunity to generate huge loads of volume, and thus will list it anyway.

That's one of the annoying things. I feel that Poloniex adding Ethereum Classic last year spawned a whole new animal. Now Bitfinex adds altcoin after altcoin, token after token, no matter how scammy they are. And they have a clear interest in contentious forks -- they generate fees off the coin split contracts, the coins backing those contracts must remain locked on their exchange (they love that, especially if they are insolvent), and they stand to make considerable fees off coin split wars post-fork. They have a big incentive to see our community cannibalize itself, unfortunately.

[rifiuti]

Somehow, this is scary. Hard forks should be exceptional. We should not see a hard fork every quarter. This is damaging for BTC.

I totally agree with that, but we know that in current days, exchanges aren't going to decline an opportunity to generate huge loads of volume, and thus will list it anyway.

That's one of the annoying things. I feel that Poloniex adding Ethereum Classic last year spawned a whole new animal. Now Bitfinex adds altcoin after altcoin, token after token, no matter how scammy they are. And they have a clear interest in contentious forks -- they generate fees off the coin split contracts, the coins backing those contracts must remain locked on their exchange (they love that, especially if they are insolvent), and they stand to make considerable fees off coin split wars post-fork. They have a big incentive to see our community cannibalize itself, unfortunately.

What you remember saves you;

[anotherbit]

I am not a technical boys but I see segwit2x come from the same parties as BCH hardfork like Xapo and friends, they fail in bch hardfork and try to attack the second chance, will bitcoin collapse? If not the bitcoin price will jump and there will be the third attack.

people and free market will decide, whether core or 2x who will have more supporter. just see and wait how all of this will become.
And when i say about supporter i mean individual bitcoin user, not monopolist corporates. people will choose.
Users here want 2x success not bcause they love it but because they want free money, just like previous fork, they dump free money for btc

As I can understand without reply protection in S2X it will be impossible to spend coins on both chains.
Thats mean you will lose your coins once spended on S2X.

Please correct me if I am wrong.