Bitcons are just empty numbers on the internet without any value or legal power

[fxsurfer]

Unlike numbers on a bank account, which represent legal liability of the bank and are backed by the collateral of specified real estate or other debt instrument that a borrower offers as a way for a bank to secure the loan, the numbers on a bitcoin address are completely void of any legal liability since software that creates them is not a legal entity which can have legal rights and obligations.

So basically, people are paying huge amounts of money to get some empty numbers which are then recorded in a public ledger on the internet. If nobody wants to accept these numbers in exchange for dollars, goods or services, they are as useless as a random number that I write on a piece of paper.

On the other hand, since dollars in a bank account are bank's liability, if nobody wants to accept dollars in exchange for goods and services, they will be settled over time through the legal system by transferring real assets from those who have received loans from the bank, since loans are secured by the collateral of specified immovable or movable property and they represent bank's assets. This comes from the fact that obligation to repay the debt would not vanish if nobody wants to accept dollars. Since the borrower received real assets for its dollars, in the absence of dollars the borrower's debt must also be settled by real assets. Alternatively, since dollars that are in circulation were exchanged for goods and services by some borrower and since he is obligated to repay his debt in dollars, if nobody wants to accept dollars the borrower is the one who is forced to accept them in exchange for goods and services otherwise he is unable to settle his obligation to the bank. Besides being backed by borrower's collateral, dollars are also backed by banks' capital and the ability to pay taxes. As we can see, dollars on their own, have real measurable value, just like goods or services.

Bitcoins on the other hand, don't have value on their own, and if nobody wants to accept them in exchange for dollars, goods or services, no legal action can be taken by their 'owners' to get some kind of value out of them. As such, Bitcons are just empty numbers on the internet, which means that people are exchanging real values for literally nothing.

[DannyHamilton]

Thank you for taking the time to come to this forum and explain to all of us your vast lack of knowledge about how bitcoin works, and why it has value.

Now that you've established your knowledge baseline, perhaps you'll spend some time here learning a bit about it so that you don't make the same mistake in the future.

[fxsurfer]

Thank you for taking the time to come to this forum and explain to all of us your vast lack of knowledge about how bitcoin works, and why it has value.

Now that you've established your knowledge baseline, perhaps you'll spend some time here learning a bit about it so that you don't make the same mistake in the future.

So, if nobody wants to accept Bitcoins in exchange for dollars, goods or services, what can you do with them?

[DaMut]

Thank you for taking the time to come to this forum and explain to all of us your vast lack of knowledge about how bitcoin works, and why it has value.

Now that you've established your knowledge baseline, perhaps you'll spend some time here learning a bit about it so that you don't make the same mistake in the future.

So, if nobody wants to accept Bitcoins in exchange for dollars, goods or services, what can you do with them?

what if nobody want or accept Dollars in their store or service or something like that.
what will happen ?
do you even understand how it works ?
if it's just an empty numbers on internet,why many people use Paypal,Neteller or something like that before ?
they're exchanging their Fiat to that crap or so called 'empty numbers' to pay their bills or buy something.

to make it simplier and understandable for you.
bring your FIAT (Dollars,because you mentioned it above),and spend it in ASEAN countries.
use it directly and buy something in there,
can you do it without exchange it ?
it's all about demand from the users or peoples.

there's no what if what if.

[aplistir]

So, if nobody wants to accept Bitcoins in exchange for dollars, goods or services, what can you do with them?

Maybe you could ask that question from people of Venezuela, Zimbabwe, or Germany (in year 1921)
Countries, where value of money was almost completely lost in recent history.

 

[inanilujimi]

Thank you for taking the time to come to this forum and explain to all of us your vast lack of knowledge about how bitcoin works, and why it has value.

Now that you've established your knowledge baseline, perhaps you'll spend some time here learning a bit about it so that you don't make the same mistake in the future.

So, if nobody wants to accept Bitcoins in exchange for dollars, goods or services, what can you do with them?

I do not understand why you ask like that
What is clear is that bitcoin can not be converted by dollars or goods and services definitely bitcoin no use anymore in this world.
But that would not be possible
You should first understand what is bitcoin and then you argue.

[andytranter]

Unlike numbers on a bank account, which represent legal liability of the bank and are backed by the collateral of specified real estate or other debt instrument that a borrower offers as a way for a bank to secure the loan, the numbers on a bitcoin address are completely void of any legal liability since software that creates them is not a legal entity which can have legal rights and obligations.

So basically, people are paying huge amounts of money to get some empty numbers which are then recorded in a public ledger on the internet. If nobody wants to accept these numbers in exchange for dollars, goods or services, they are as useless as a random number that I write on a piece of paper.

On the other hand, since dollars in a bank account are bank's liability, if nobody wants to accept dollars in exchange for goods and services, they will be settled over time through the legal system by transferring real assets from those who have received loans from the bank, since loans are secured by the collateral of specified immovable or movable property and they represent bank's assets. This comes from the fact that obligation to repay the debt would not vanish if nobody wants to accept dollars. Since the borrower received real assets for its dollars, in the absence of dollars the borrower's debt must also be settled by real assets. Alternatively, since dollars that are in circulation were exchanged for goods and services by some borrower and since he is obligated to repay his debt in dollars, if nobody wants to accept dollars the borrower is the one who is forced to accept them in exchange for goods and services otherwise he is unable to settle his obligation to the bank. Besides being backed by borrower's collateral, dollars are also backed by banks' capital and the ability to pay taxes. As we can see, dollars on their own, have real measurable value, just like goods or services.

Bitcoins on the other hand, don't have value on their own, and if nobody wants to accept them in exchange for dollars, goods or services, no legal action can be taken by their 'owners' to get some kind of value out of them. As such, Bitcons are just empty numbers on the internet, which means that people are exchanging real values for literally nothing.

I personally agree with most of what you have just said. This was particularly true in the early days of bitcoin - very few people accepted them as payment, and hence the value was very low.

However, that is no longer the case. Bitcoin is accepted in many places and more importantly - exchanges will give you $ for your bitcoin. This is similar for Paypal. Paypal gives you cash for your paypal tokens when you choose to withdraw them. Until you do, they are just paypal tokens that sit in the paypal wallet. At least bitcoin has several wallet and exchanges!

Many people believe bitcoin will gain more credibility in the near future, and "invest" in this future by contributing to mining and using the currency in its infancy.

Just look at the speed of growth for paypal! Once they partnered with ebay they were flying!

Maybe it takes one big company like this to really get bitcoin growing. Someone like uber would be perfect.

[fxsurfer]

what if nobody want or accept Dollars in their store or service or something like that.
what will happen ?
do you even understand how it works ?
if it's just an empty numbers on internet,why many people use Paypal,Neteller or something like that before ?
they're exchanging their Fiat to that crap or so called 'empty numbers' to pay their bills or buy something.

to make it simplier and understandable for you.
bring your FIAT (Dollars,because you mentioned it above),and spend it in ASEAN countries.
use it directly and buy something in there,
can you do it without exchange it ?
it's all about demand from the users or peoples.

there's no what if what if.

If nobody want or accept Dollars than those who received the loans and exchanged them for goods and services would not be able to settle their obligations to the bank. As a result, the bank would seize the collateral to recoup its losses and finally, those who have deposits would get some immovable or movable property.

Now it's your turn, if nobody want or accept Bitcoins what can you do with them?  

[hdclover]

Thank you for taking the time to come to this forum and explain to all of us your vast lack of knowledge about how bitcoin works, and why it has value.

Now that you've established your knowledge baseline, perhaps you'll spend some time here learning a bit about it so that you don't make the same mistake in the future.

So, if nobody wants to accept Bitcoins in exchange for dollars, goods or services, what can you do with them?

Welcome to this forum!
Why do you think nobody accepts BTC as a payment method?
I am proudly saying this: I accept BTC (Some other alts also) for my service, web and graphic designing service to be precise. After adding BTC on my site as a method of payment, Sales also got increased. Many people use BTC may be for your knowledge you haven't come across anyone.

I'm not comparing with PayPal which is a rip off for sellers. Buyers always win no matter if they are legit or scam

[Kprawn]

Thank you for taking the time to come to this forum and explain to all of us your vast lack of knowledge about how bitcoin works, and why it has value.

Now that you've established your knowledge baseline, perhaps you'll spend some time here learning a bit about it so that you don't make the same mistake in the future.

So, if nobody wants to accept Bitcoins in exchange for dollars, goods or services, what can you do with them?

It should be the other way around. Bitcoin users should deal directly with other Bitcoin users, without the need to convert

bitcoins to reserve currencies. {reserve currencies are being manipulated by governments to serve their political agendas}

When you live in a country where Banks close their doors and people cannot have access to their own money or where your

currency are used for toilet paper, then you will learn to appreciate what Bitcoin bring to the table. 

We do not want to convert to Fiat currencies, but in many instances we still have to because not every merchant accepts

Bitcoin YET.

[fxsurfer]

I personally agree with most of what you have just said. This was particularly true in the early days of bitcoin - very few people accepted them as payment, and hence the value was very low.

However, that is no longer the case. Bitcoin is accepted in many places and more importantly - exchanges will give you $ for your bitcoin. This is similar for Paypal. Paypal gives you cash for your paypal tokens when you choose to withdraw them. Until you do, they are just paypal tokens that sit in the paypal wallet. At least bitcoin has several wallet and exchanges!

Many people believe bitcoin will gain more credibility in the near future, and "invest" in this future by contributing to mining and using the currency in its infancy.

Just look at the speed of growth for paypal! Once they partnered with ebay they were flying!

Maybe it takes one big company like this to really get bitcoin growing. Someone like uber would be perfect.

Value comes from utility - the capacity of an entity to satisfy human wants. Number on your Bitcoin address does not have such capacity. If nobody want or accept Bitcoins you are unable to take legal action in order to get some kind of value out of them that can lead to satisfying of human wants. Hence, Bitcoin doesn't have any value of it's own. If people are buying X, and X doesn't have value of it's own, than this is irrational behaviour and not something that gives value to X.

[HitbtcSCAM]

Unlike numbers on a bank account, which represent legal liability of the bank and are backed by the collateral of specified real estate or other debt instrument that a borrower offers as a way for a bank to secure the loan, the numbers on a bitcoin address are completely void of any legal liability since software that creates them is not a legal entity which can have legal rights and obligations.

So basically, people are paying huge amounts of money to get some empty numbers which are then recorded in a public ledger on the internet. If nobody wants to accept these numbers in exchange for dollars, goods or services, they are as useless as a random number that I write on a piece of paper.

On the other hand, since dollars in a bank account are bank's liability, if nobody wants to accept dollars in exchange for goods and services, they will be settled over time through the legal system by transferring real assets from those who have received loans from the bank, since loans are secured by the collateral of specified immovable or movable property and they represent bank's assets. This comes from the fact that obligation to repay the debt would not vanish if nobody wants to accept dollars. Since the borrower received real assets for its dollars, in the absence of dollars the borrower's debt must also be settled by real assets. Alternatively, since dollars that are in circulation were exchanged for goods and services by some borrower and since he is obligated to repay his debt in dollars, if nobody wants to accept dollars the borrower is the one who is forced to accept them in exchange for goods and services otherwise he is unable to settle his obligation to the bank. Besides being backed by borrower's collateral, dollars are also backed by banks' capital and the ability to pay taxes. As we can see, dollars on their own, have real measurable value, just like goods or services.

Bitcoins on the other hand, don't have value on their own, and if nobody wants to accept them in exchange for dollars, goods or services, no legal action can be taken by their 'owners' to get some kind of value out of them. As such, Bitcons are just empty numbers on the internet, which means that people are exchanging real values for literally nothing.

So you are saying banks = security.
All organizations controlled by humans are corrupt. I was just robbed by Hitbtc.com for 130,000 usd.You want to think that the humans are good and trustworthy but they are not.Any bank can take your money.The fed who gives the value to the money is printing more and more paper all the time.Based on supply and demand simple rules dollars and paper mafia/govt money has no value.Bitcoin is limited it has value because of that and when billions of people are fighting over 20 million coins then you will see the effect supply and demand has on prices.

[jseverson]

Bitcoins on the other hand, don't have value on their own, and if nobody wants to accept them in exchange for dollars, goods or services, no legal action can be taken by their 'owners' to get some kind of value out of them. As such, Bitcons are just empty numbers on the internet, which means that people are exchanging real values for literally nothing.

That's all well and good, but fiat suffers from the same problem. They're just paper without demand, and you just can't magically say banks will bail you out. If your currency fails, you'd best keep in mind that you're not the only client they have to appease. There have been precedent for that, too -- currencies have failed before, the Zimbabwean Dollar being one of the most recent examples. Bitcoins have no intrinsic value, and neither does fiat.

As for legal support, well, decentralization comes with certain liberties, but at the same time, you have to let go of some privileges. We all know we're completely responsible for ourselves. One thing is for sure though: we're not trading nothing. Value is a man-made concept, and for as long as there is demand for Bitcoins, it will never be just numbers.

[valisa]

I think it's the same with cash, if no one wants to use it then the money is the same as paper can be worthless. different again with gold because gold is no price is not the same as cash. while the price of money in clay from his nominal writing.

[bob123]

Not a big difference to the green paper with numbers on it which you love so much.
Value is directed by supply and demand. And BTC is definetly not just random numbers on the Internet

[RelBunny]

what if nobody want or accept Dollars in their store or service or something like that.
what will happen ?
do you even understand how it works ?
if it's just an empty numbers on internet,why many people use Paypal,Neteller or something like that before ?
they're exchanging their Fiat to that crap or so called 'empty numbers' to pay their bills or buy something.

to make it simplier and understandable for you.
bring your FIAT (Dollars,because you mentioned it above),and spend it in ASEAN countries.
use it directly and buy something in there,
can you do it without exchange it ?
it's all about demand from the users or peoples.

there's no what if what if.

If nobody want or accept Dollars than those who received the loans and exchanged them for goods and services would not be able to settle their obligations to the bank. As a result, the bank would seize the collateral to recoup its losses and finally, those who have deposits would get some immovable or movable property.

Now it's your turn, if nobody want or accept Bitcoins what can you do with them?  

If you go to some foreign country with dollars in your pocket, your dollars are not worth anything. You have to go to the exchange office and exchange it for local currency.
Similarly, if you want to send money to someone who doesn't accept bitcoin, you have to exchange it for the currency that is accepted (mind you, bitcoin is starting to get accepted more and more).

Alternatively, you might be able to pay with a card without having to exchange your currency, but that just means someone else did the exchange for you.


There is not much difference between dollar and bitcoin in that regard.
If bitcoin gets obliterated, some would have won, some would have lost.
If dollar gets obliterated, banks would have won, everyone else would have lost.

You see, you loaned your dollars to the bank (if you have it in their account). If it's suddenly worthless, too bad for you. Either the bank can give it back to you although it's worthless (good luck with spending that), or it can't give it back to you because they don't have it (ask for example someone from Greece if they were able to get their money not that long ago). Either way, there's nothing in for you, you're not getting any property (bank only owed you some dollars, there is no collateral here, as opposed to when you take a loan from the bank - i.e. bank giveth, bank taketh away). Theoretically, depending on the law, you might be able to apply for some of the property that bank seized, but with many people applying, you are getting next to nothing.

Value comes from utility - the capacity of an entity to satisfy human wants. Number on your Bitcoin address does not have such capacity. If nobody want or accept Bitcoins you are unable to take legal action in order to get some kind of value out of them that can lead to satisfying of human wants. Hence, Bitcoin doesn't have any value of it's own. If people are buying X, and X doesn't have value of it's own, than this is irrational behaviour and not something that gives value to X.

Value comes from utility - the capacity of an entity to satisfy human wants. Number on your Dollar does not have such capacity. If nobody want or accept Dollars you are unable to take legal action in order to get some kind of value out of them that can lead to satisfying of human wants. Hence, Dollar doesn't have any value of it's own. If people are buying X, and X doesn't have value of it's own, than this is irrational behaviour and not something that gives value to X.
You see, if you have XYZ dollars in your bank account, and dollar gets terribly inflated, bank does not adjust your account value for that inflation. They still only owe you XYZ dollars, which in this hypothetical situation is worth (next to) nothing. Same thing if you keep your dollar in your pocket, you can now buy something with it because someone said so, but if they say you can't do it anymore, then you just can't.




What I think you misunderstood about bitcoin is that you think it's just some random sequence of numbers. Well, it's not, at least not more than the sequence of numbers in your bank account. The only major difference is who's controlling the flow of these numbers and what they take in return.

[Proton2233]

In fact, the dollars also have no real price. You don't know. Perhaps the paper is not drawn where the dollar is worth more than the dollar itself. The banking system is manipulating a turnover of paper money and hence manipulating their value. You yourself acknowledge the fact that the set of random numbers on the Internet is much more expensive than dollars.

[naf]

troll

[SmokeMcPay]

Bitcoins on the other hand, don't have value on their own, and if nobody wants to accept them in exchange for dollars, goods or services, no legal action can be taken by their 'owners' to get some kind of value out of them. As such, Bitcons are just empty numbers on the internet, which means that people are exchanging real values for literally nothing.

That's all well and good, but fiat suffers from the same problem. They're just paper without demand, and you just can't magically say banks will bail you out. If your currency fails, you'd best keep in mind that you're not the only client they have to appease. There have been precedent for that, too -- currencies have failed before, the Zimbabwean Dollar being one of the most recent examples. Bitcoins have no intrinsic value, and neither does fiat.

As for legal support, well, decentralization comes with certain liberties, but at the same time, you have to let go of some privileges. We all know we're completely responsible for ourselves. One thing is for sure though: we're not trading nothing. Value is a man-made concept, and for as long as there is demand for Bitcoins, it will never be just numbers.

Completely agree with you.

Cryptocurrency dynamics are very similar than fiat currency, and like more people said 'Value' is not something that exists, is an attribute.

For these saying 'BTC is worthless, otherwise why it isn't accepted as a payment method globally' is because of people inexperience. Would you begin operating with something you are not sure how/why it works? I don't think so, more when it comes to money; currency is 'safer' because a bank 'covers' you whether a national bank or a private bank, 'physical' is better because you can actually have an ownership feeling over it, 'virtual' is harder to acknowledge & understand, what if my 000's sequence just disappear from the net? .

These thoughts are what are preventing BTC to be global widespread.

The implementation of crypto at a global scale at this point depends on gobernments and innovation.

[Zenithar]

I think it's the same with cash, if no one wants to use it then the money is the same as paper can be worthless. different again with gold because gold is no price is not the same as cash. while the price of money in clay from his nominal writing.

In fact it is depending on the interest of the people. some time when we take interest in some thing its value start  increasing, but when we ignore it then it also lose it value, and i think we have very good examples from our daily life. For example if we study Doge it was in its peak position when people were taking interest in it, but later one due to lack of the interest of the people Doge price start decreasing and now it is about to die.