Open letter to Theymos regarding Butterfly Labs (BFL)

[DiamondCardz]

99% Fraud as viewed through the eyes of the majority. Stop defending these son's of bitches and their half ass way of doing business and the other half ass way of scamming people. I'm gathering info and going to wreck them on bitcoinscammers.com

I actually agree with you for once.

The thing is, if BFL becomes tagged, there isn't a problem of lower ad revenue, maybe they'll even get more donations.

It's a problem of a chain reaction, BFL might just vanish, and with millions of dollars. And if they do have the resources to make the ASICs or even have them at the moment, we could be looking at a serious attack (maybe not a 51% on Bitcoin, but they could give a pool the power to 51%).

Hell, if they're millionaires, they don't care about Bitcoin anymore. They can a) destroy it or b) take all the Bitcoins, both of which won't be good.

If that's the case, then BFL is blackmailing the entire Bitcoin community.

This calls for drastic action. Have tire iron, will travel. The plan is to stick in the gears of the windmill outside their facility. That'll slow 'em down.

* DiamondCardz nods his head.

Genius plan.

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[theymos]

BFL probably already spent a very large proportion of the preorder money on R&D. If this is the case, they won't have much incentive to run away. They'll make more money by successfully delivering the product and then selling more.

[MooC Tals]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUvgF4u3mSc

How about a little easy listening music.

[DiamondCardz]

BFL probably already spent a very large proportion of the preorder money on R&D. If this is the case, they won't have much incentive to run away. They'll make more money by successfully delivering the product and then selling more.

1. Are they not still taking in funds, albeit at a much smaller rate? It's just about production now.
2. If they run they'll have some money and quite a lot of ASIC chips - they could make a lot of money mining Bitcoin (and panic might be caused if a few TH/s just drop on and off the network), or attacking the blockchain to commit fraud.
3. They might make more money by delivering it, but I doubt many people will order from BFL after this is cleaned up.

[Flying Hellfish]

BFL probably already spent a very large proportion of the preorder money on R&D. If this is the case, they won't have much incentive to run away. They'll make more money by successfully delivering the product and then selling more.

Except that BFL has stated they have not used pre-order money for R&D or operational costs.  IF we believe this then there still appears to be a pretty massive reason to run away.

[MPOE-PR]

To sit here and complain its the Moderators fault is just stupid. The fault lies in the people that have given their money to this company and they deserve to feel the pain of bad judgement. As I am recalling that is what capitalism is all about.

Prosperity is in general the result of the working of free markets. The one caveat to this observation is that market participants have to be responsible. It doesn't matter so much if they are intelligent or not, it doesn't really matter if they're good christians or devout muslims or anything else, but they do have to be responsible.

When some people behave irresponsibly the result is that they lose their money, which flows, albeit indirectly and circumvolutedly but nevertheless unerringly, to more responsible participants.

When a small majority* of participants behave irresponsibly however the net result is not just pain to their own fortunes, but pain spread across the board. All of a sudden you have to be very intelligent, and very experienced, and very well informed to manage to keep your money safe, and often enough even that's not going to suffice.

Learn it already.

[DiamondCardz]

To sit here and complain its the Moderators fault is just stupid. The fault lies in the people that have given their money to this company and they deserve to feel the pain of bad judgement. As I am recalling that is what capitalism is all about.

Prosperity is in general the result of the working of free markets. The one caveat to this observation is that market participants have to be responsible. It doesn't matter so much if they are intelligent or not, it doesn't really matter if they're good christians or devout muslims or anything else, but they do have to be responsible.

When some people behave irresponsibly the result is that they lose their money, which flows, albeit indirectly and circumvolutedly but nevertheless unerringly, to more responsible participants.

When a small majority* of participants behave irresponsibly however the net result is not just pain to their own fortunes, but pain spread across the board. All of a sudden you have to be very intelligent, and very experienced, and very well informed to manage to keep your money safe, and often enough even that's not going to suffice.

Learn it already.

Yeah, karma doesn't bring your money back when you send someone $20k.

[MooC Tals]

To sit here and complain its the Moderators fault is just stupid. The fault lies in the people that have given their money to this company and they deserve to feel the pain of bad judgement. As I am recalling that is what capitalism is all about.

Prosperity is in general the result of the working of free markets. The one caveat to this observation is that market participants have to be responsible. It doesn't matter so much if they are intelligent or not, it doesn't really matter if they're good christians or devout muslims or anything else, but they do have to be responsible.

When some people behave irresponsibly the result is that they lose their money, which flows, albeit indirectly and circumvolutedly but nevertheless unerringly, to more responsible participants.

When a small majority* of participants behave irresponsibly however the net result is not just pain to their own fortunes, but pain spread across the board. All of a sudden you have to be very intelligent, and very experienced, and very well informed to manage to keep your money safe, and often enough even that's not going to suffice.

Learn it already.

Yeah, karma doesn't bring your money back when you send someone $20k.

I want to ask everyone here a few questions. I don't really need anyone to reply as it will attract people that will say negative responses.

When you placed your orders for minirigs or singles(like me) did you get any gut feeling when things were going wrong? I had a KNOT in my gut for 30 days after the 1st month. It became worse when I found out about Sonny and it grew in intensity after every delay from BFL.

Did anyone else feel that? I sure did.

Did anyone feel like they were being attacked by BFL parrots spouting "just request a refund so I can be move further ahead of the que" and how you had to have faith in BFL as they are not a scam as they have delivered before?

Anyone?

I always trust that feeling. This is why I believe people deserve the punishment in the form of lost funds. I know its harsh but this is not suppose to be a lottery. You purchased a product and it was to be delivered to you. So faith has nothing to do with it.

[MPOE-PR]

This is why I believe people deserve the punishment in the form of lost funds.

The problem isn't whether idiots deserve punishment (they do), the problem is whether idiots deserve to be delivering the punishment (they don't). That's the problem here, that people like Sonny, Inaba, gigavps, Harnett, Kenna, Owens, Rosenfeld, Usagi, tawsix what have you fill the list to the hundred+ names made even a single bitcent off this entire thing is what's wrong.

Because, again, these malignant idiots (to be distinguished from the "benign" idiots they raped) turn around and support the wrong things with their ill-gotten gains. Much more credible swindles and scams like the "bitcoin foundation" etc.

[MooC Tals]

This is why I believe people deserve the punishment in the form of lost funds.

The problem isn't whether idiots deserve punishment (they do), the problem is whether idiots deserve to be delivering the punishment (they don't). That's the problem here, that people like Sonny, Inaba, gigavps, Harnett, Kenna, Owens, Rosenfeld, Usagi, tawsix what have you fill the list to the hundred+ names made even a single bitcent off this entire thing is what's wrong.

Because, again, these malignant idiots (to be distinguished from the "benign" idiots they raped) turn around and support the wrong things with their ill-gotten gains. Much more credible swindles and scams like the "bitcoin foundation" etc.

Don't get me wrong I don't disagree with you here at all. However this is how it works. Organized criminals always bend the rules. People on the take are always patsies and honest people see the crime and turn their heads and ignore it. When no one feels it their concern to bring justice it always ends up that way. I'm just tired of telling benign idiots that they're getting fucked when they just tell me to shutup and cancel my orders so their greed can be compensated at an earlier time. Fuckem let them burn, let them all burn.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

BFL probably already spent a very large proportion of the preorder money on R&D. If this is the case, they won't have much incentive to run away. They'll make more money by successfully delivering the product and then selling more.

Exactly! Finally, you see the light! BFL is spending their profits to successfully deliver product so that they can do it all over again. It's this madness that I, among others, are trying to put a halt to.

<s/ off>

[Syke]

BFL has repeatedly missed target dates. OK, frustrating and disappointing. But if you don't like it, get a refund. It's not a "scam" if you're free to get your money back at any point.

And now that they are refusing refund requests, I guess you agree they have successfully risen to scam status.

[MPOE-PR]

BFL has repeatedly missed target dates. OK, frustrating and disappointing. But if you don't like it, get a refund. It's not a "scam" if you're free to get your money back at any point.

And now that they are refusing refund requests, I guess you agree they have successfully risen to scam status.

Kind of an immaterial point. Before they issued 1-5% refunds (you deposited 1k BTC in Sept 2012? Here's your 30 BTC refund in April 2013, well done, good business, come again). Now they issue 0% refunds. Arguably no difference of any import.

[Viceroy]

You should come point out their illegal activity in the thread below and then maybe convince Theymos to create a CRIMINAL tag.  The old scam tag has now ended (apparently) and so this thread like the entire scam section is no longer important I suppose.  Let's start a new CRIMINAL tag....

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=247310.0

[Atruk]

99% Fraud as viewed through the eyes of the majority. Stop defending these son's of bitches and their half ass way of doing business and the other half ass way of scamming people. I'm gathering info and going to wreck them on bitcoinscammers.com

I actually agree with you for once.

The thing is, if BFL becomes tagged, there isn't a problem of lower ad revenue, maybe they'll even get more donations.

It's a problem of a chain reaction, BFL might just vanish, and with millions of dollars. And if they do have the resources to make the ASICs or even have them at the moment, we could be looking at a serious attack (maybe not a 51% on Bitcoin, but they could give a pool the power to 51%).

Hell, if they're millionaires, they don't care about Bitcoin anymore. They can a) destroy it or b) take all the Bitcoins, both of which won't be good.

If that's the case, then BFL is blackmailing the entire Bitcoin community.

This calls for drastic action. Have tire iron, will travel. The plan is to stick in the gears of the windmill outside their facility. That'll slow 'em down.

Driving down I-55 south then I-70 east, right?