Open letter to Theymos regarding Butterfly Labs (BFL)

[MooC Tals]

So exactly how many units do they have to deliver in order to get the scammer tag?

If they delivered 0 units, they probably would get the scammer tag.
If they delivered 1 unit?
2 units?

Right now they delivered ~5,000 units I think.

Mafia's can run several successful businesses and be loved by the public. They have great services like laundry mat chains and restaurants auto shops and nice large grocery chains. Now mind you their enemy is the government so they're a bit more efficient however not very legal all the same.

The scam is not in the products and I don't believe a scammer tag should be given to BFL for products being developed and delivered. What they should be tagged for was how they got to this point by using pre-orders to fund the research and development of the products.

If you believe they had venture capital and did not use pre-order money to RnD then why would you have to give 100% payment upfront for more than a year with a plethura of updates saying shipping was in a couple of weeks only to be disapointed. Why not just take emails or at most a 20% deposit.

When you buy a new home you sign the agreement with the builder and drop a 500 dollar check as a deposit and a month or two before the home is finished being built you go in to your lawyer and finalize your papers which your signature grants the bank to issue the rest of the funds.

Now this is a large scale purchase but even a bank won't send pre-order money until the home is in its final stage.

BFL has taken 100% payment for products that did not exists and to a certain degree still don't. If they had venture capital (anon source btw) why the 100% deposit?

This is all legal btw only because the consumers are naive,inexperienced and greedy.

Everything else you buy online is a finished product so payments in full are required. However I really don't know any other product out there you pay 100% and are still in development.

If anyone here does let me know.  

[1715045748]

1715045748

[1715045748]

1715045748

[1715045748]

1715045748

[1715045748]

1715045748

[Frizz23]

Dear Mods,

this is what BFL/Josh thinks about us:

... I tried to be nice and I wanted to help you and you give me all sorts of shit and accusations.  This is why we no longer give a shit about this forum;  Everyone here is monumental assholes, no matter how accommodating one tries to be. 

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Dear Mods,

this is what BFL/Josh thinks about us:

... I tried to be nice and I wanted to help you and you give me all sorts of shit and accusations.  This is why we no longer give a shit about this forum;  Everyone here is monumental assholes, no matter how accommodating one tries to be. 

That ain't good! Did Josh just call theymos a monumental asshole? If I recall, Atlas pulled a similar stunt, getting permanently banned after he even tried to bribe theymos to overlook it. Sadly, BFL's pockets are deeper than Atlas', flush with monumental assholes' money.

I wonder if there's a connection between Josh losing weight and his recent runnin' amok episodes. Surely, Sonny ain't back on cocaine like he was in Laissez Faire City with his Danny-O, this time trading the blow for a blow.

[Maged]

Dear Mods,

this is what BFL/Josh thinks about us:

... I tried to be nice and I wanted to help you and you give me all sorts of shit and accusations.  This is why we no longer give a shit about this forum;  Everyone here is monumental assholes, no matter how accommodating one tries to be. 

Meh. Sounds about right, actually...

[MooC Tals]

Dear Mods,

this is what BFL/Josh thinks about us:

... I tried to be nice and I wanted to help you and you give me all sorts of shit and accusations.  This is why we no longer give a shit about this forum;  Everyone here is monumental assholes, no matter how accommodating one tries to be. 

Meh. Sounds about right, actually...

Actually Josh is a self proclaimed asshole. I have proof too. He say's he masquerades as an asshole to get more business here. Really!

Here is proof
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136392.msg1622626#msg1622626


Internets such a bitch

[Maged]

Not gonna lie, that's pretty awesome 

[MooC Tals]

Not gonna lie, that's pretty awesome 

Thank you! I aim to please.

[Flying Hellfish]

So I put a thread up in the custom hardware section with his lovely quote and it was deleted.  Did I do something wrong?  How come it was deleted, anyone know?

[Entropy-uc]

So I put a thread up in the custom hardware section with his lovely quote and it was deleted.  Did I do something wrong?  How come it was deleted, anyone know?

It was deleted because the mod of the hardware forum is blatantly biased in support of BFL.

He has hidden dozens of threads in 'OFF TOPIC' to conceal the history of lies going on for years now that BFL has spread. 

[RedRobin2442]

blah blah blah
People with no investment cry
blah blah blah
Internet cry fest

[MooC Tals]

blah blah blah
People with no investment cry
blah blah blah
Internet cry fest

lol Ok I'll be watching what you say in Dec.

saving this for later

[Flying Hellfish]

So I put a thread up in the custom hardware section with his lovely quote and it was deleted.  Did I do something wrong?  How come it was deleted, anyone know?

It was deleted because the mod of the hardware forum is blatantly biased in support of BFL.

He has hidden dozens of threads in 'OFF TOPIC' to conceal the history of lies going on for years now that BFL has spread. 

That was my initial thought as well, but I wanted to check if I had done something wrong first... 

This forum is a joke IMO, thankfully I read the entire Garr auction drama and now have a much clearer picture of how fucked up this place really is.  The level of fucked up in those two threads is astounding.

[becoin]

That was my initial thought as well, but I wanted to check if I had done something wrong first...

Mods on this forum have been purchased by BFL long ago. Now BFL just blackmails them from time to time by holding evidence of their corruption.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137026.0

[MPOE-PR]

That was my initial thought as well, but I wanted to check if I had done something wrong first...

Mods on this forum have been purchased by BFL long ago. Now BFL just blackmails them from time to time by holding evidence of their corruption.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137026.0

Don't confuse the scammy gmaxwell fuckwit with "the mods" generally.

[Operatr]

So I put a thread up in the custom hardware section with his lovely quote and it was deleted.  Did I do something wrong?  How come it was deleted, anyone know?

I got banned for posting about their CEO being a convicted mail scammer...I think they don't appreciate you pointing out the terrible people behind this terrible company on their own boards

[Rawted]

So I put a thread up in the custom hardware section with his lovely quote and it was deleted.  Did I do something wrong?  How come it was deleted, anyone know?

It was deleted because the mod of the hardware forum is blatantly biased in support of BFL.

He has hidden dozens of threads in 'OFF TOPIC' to conceal the history of lies going on for years now that BFL has spread. 

That was my initial thought as well, but I wanted to check if I had done something wrong first... 

This forum is a joke IMO, thankfully I read the entire Garr auction drama and now have a much clearer picture of how fucked up this place really is.  The level of fucked up in those two threads is astounding.

I personally like Theymos, and casually chat with him on IRC at times. However, i must remind everyone that he is a younger guy. I also must remind people that this site is less than 2 years old, and was never meant to be the defacto standard in BTC interpersonal relationships. Some people hold too much weight in the 'authority' of this forum. Always do your due diligence.

As far as BFL goes, a few things are pretty clear.

1. they waited until other ASIC companies figured out the recipe, then began production of their own.
2. they most certainly funded "R&D" with preorder money
3. they have been trading/selling/mining with customer's preorder money and their "test" equipment.
4. They have been beaten at their own game by the very companies they used to call "dumb, idiotic, scamming, little china men". Said companies not only beat out their ETA, but also pricing and dependability.
5. they have been so inept that literally any chance of a decent ROI is virtually gone, as the net diff is still skyrocketing. Youre only going to make money or make a difference supporting the network, if you were in their first month of preorders.
6. their company is founded and ran by people who have federal fraud convictions, with millions stolen from the less fortunate and elderly.
7. the company is dishonest in just about everything they do. From raising prices so that customers dont request refunds, to the shoddy implementation of the first vouchers program, and the current chip credits program. Also see the most recent charity bet payoff for more evidence of this.

I'm sure this list could be extrapolated upon greatly.

[Bitcoin Scammer]

99% Fraud as viewed through the eyes of the majority. Stop defending these son's of bitches and their half ass way of doing business and the other half ass way of scamming people. I'm gathering info and going to wreck them on bitcoinscammers.com

[DiamondCardz]

99% Fraud as viewed through the eyes of the majority. Stop defending these son's of bitches and their half ass way of doing business and the other half ass way of scamming people. I'm gathering info and going to wreck them on bitcoinscammers.com

I actually agree with you for once.

The thing is, if BFL becomes tagged, there isn't a problem of lower ad revenue, maybe they'll even get more donations.

It's a problem of a chain reaction, BFL might just vanish, and with millions of dollars. And if they do have the resources to make the ASICs or even have them at the moment, we could be looking at a serious attack (maybe not a 51% on Bitcoin, but they could give a pool the power to 51%).

Hell, if they're millionaires, they don't care about Bitcoin anymore. They can a) destroy it or b) take all the Bitcoins, both of which won't be good.

[MooC Tals]

99% Fraud as viewed through the eyes of the majority. Stop defending these son's of bitches and their half ass way of doing business and the other half ass way of scamming people. I'm gathering info and going to wreck them on bitcoinscammers.com

I actually agree with you for once.

The thing is, if BFL becomes tagged, there isn't a problem of lower ad revenue, maybe they'll even get more donations.

It's a problem of a chain reaction, BFL might just vanish, and with millions of dollars. And if they do have the resources to make the ASICs or even have them at the moment, we could be looking at a serious attack (maybe not a 51% on Bitcoin, but they could give a pool the power to 51%).

Hell, if they're millionaires, they don't care about Bitcoin anymore. They can a) destroy it or b) take all the Bitcoins, both of which won't be good.

I used to be in the camp of not rocking the boat. At this point the creature has been created and nurtured by decent peoples apathy and greed. In all honesty the damaged to bitcoin has already been done. BLF is and will continue to be what it is. I have no problem with that.

To sit here and complain its the Moderators fault is just stupid. The fault lies in the people that have given their money to this company and they deserve to feel the pain of bad judgement. As I am recalling that is what capitalism is all about. I was one of those that gave them money and also requested a refund. So although I have no skin in the game my judgement on what should happen is the same. I would deserve to lose my money. I would not be happy but I would deserve it for giving my money upfront with no guarantee of a ship date.

To have faith you say? Well faith is in god, this is business.

To the bitcoin community stop relying on authority to protect you, use your brain and protect your own interest.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

99% Fraud as viewed through the eyes of the majority. Stop defending these son's of bitches and their half ass way of doing business and the other half ass way of scamming people. I'm gathering info and going to wreck them on bitcoinscammers.com

I actually agree with you for once.

The thing is, if BFL becomes tagged, there isn't a problem of lower ad revenue, maybe they'll even get more donations.

It's a problem of a chain reaction, BFL might just vanish, and with millions of dollars. And if they do have the resources to make the ASICs or even have them at the moment, we could be looking at a serious attack (maybe not a 51% on Bitcoin, but they could give a pool the power to 51%).

Hell, if they're millionaires, they don't care about Bitcoin anymore. They can a) destroy it or b) take all the Bitcoins, both of which won't be good.

If that's the case, then BFL is blackmailing the entire Bitcoin community.

This calls for drastic action. Have tire iron, will travel. The plan is to stick in the gears of the windmill outside their facility. That'll slow 'em down.