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Author Topic: Exposing the Ripple Scam  (Read 2207 times)
opencoin-ripple (OP)
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June 03, 2013, 01:40:19 PM
 #1

Who is ‘Ripple’? Isn’t this open and decentralized like bitcoin?

“OpenCoin,” “Ripple,”, the OpenCoin logos and any other OpenCoin product or service name, logo or slogan contained in the Site are trademarks or service marks of OpenCoin (the “OpenCoin Marks”) and may not be copied, imitated or used, in whole or in part, except as expressly permitted in these Terms or on the Site or with the prior written permission of OpenCoin.

Hi there! I’ve being using Ripple since the closed beta, and I feel that the OpenCoin Inc (the for-profit company behind Ripple) scam and fraud attempt needs to be disclosed. Ripple is an inherently flawed experiment at best, and a con operation at worst. Let’s get started.

CENTRALIZED, PROPRIETARY AND CLOSED SOURCE

“Ripple is truly open. No one owns it. Anyone can use it. It’s open source, so anyone can build on top of it.”
- “How Ripple Works”, accessed April 2013.

Ripple is not open source. No server source code has being released, with the paid developers behind Ripple admitting that it is to prevent others from using building something better than Ripple in true open source fashion. You pay to build on top of Ripple, the same way you can build on top of PayPal or Visa. You, Joe Q Coder who want to contribute to Ripple, cannot because it is not open source.

Every single Ripple nodes is controlled by a private for profit company. It is centralized, like a bank or PayPal. Not a decentralized currency.

Remember, Ripple’s investors are connected to big name banks and payment services like PayPal. They want Ripple, a closed and centralized alternative, to kill Bitcoin – and they support Ripple undisputably lying about key concepts right in the homepage.

Ripple is not open, despite what their website says.

ALREADY 51% ATTACKED – AND ONGOING

Every cryptocurrency is subject to a 51% attack. In Bitcoin and similar cryptocurrencies, miners control the network, and if a miner gains 51% of the total network power, then they can choose to double spend transactions. Some alt coins have tried “trust nodes” or “central checkpointing”, however that only moves the 51% attack vector from miners to another entity – which can be 51% attacked.

In Ripple, it is already 51% attacked by the 14 employees of OpenCoin (OpenCon) Inc. They control the server software (written in C++), and they can choose to double spend transactions at will. While it’s highly unlikely that they will do that, a centralized entity means a single target for law enforcement and court orders.

UPDATE: As of May 16, OpenCoin Inc has changed core network rules with Ripple numerous times, reducing the “base account” amount. This inflates XRP as more ripples can be spent in the economy. No vote or discussion was held, if OpenCoin Inc wants to do something they do it.

If WikiLeaks started accepting donations on the Ripple network, governments can serve a court order to OpenCoin Inc for them to block and reverse transactions to WikiLeaks. OpenCoin Inc has that power, because the network is centralized. They legally have to. If the Bitcoin Foundation was issued this court order, then all they could do is release a new version of the bitcoin client – and people won’t upgrade, because the code is open source.

I used WikiLeaks as an example. It could be anyone or any entity. Occupy Wall Street. A gambling site. Ripple is under the centralized control of a for-profit, US based corporation – and they have to follow US laws. When they are already 51% attacking the network through the nodes (see this?), all it takes is a court order for them to have to reverse transactions.

XRPs (“RIPPLES”) ARE PREMINED AND OPENCOIN INC PRINTED 100 BILLION FOR THEMSELVES

Cryptocurrencies are decentralized because they distribute their currency units in an open and fair way. Ripple, despite claiming to be open, has created 100 billion Ripples, and are giving half of them to themselves. The developers took 20 billion XRPs for them to spend on anything they want (sell it for bitcoins, perhaps), and the for-profit company took 80 billion. This isn’t appropriately disclosed on their website. The founders want it to be hidden. They don’t want the users to know about it – to know about it’s a currency where they control – not Bitcoin, where nodes and miners control it.

They are giving away 50 billion, to their friends and pals, and a tiny bit to the general public so they promote Ripple. Instead of having to use electricity and computational power to earn Bitcoins, you have to be best pals with OpenCoin Inc’s employees (or just be them). Big name investors have also being given XRPs — out of the giveaway pool!

Every single premined cryptocurrency has failed, and Ripple is no exception. There’s a quote that’s often attributed to Albert Einstein – “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

People use Bitcoin because it allows them to get away from centralized banks and money printing Federal Reserve. Code and algorithms decide where Bitcoins go, not people and court orders. Everyone audit the network and make sure all the transactions are correct, not just “validators” which are all OpenCoin Inc sponsored. More importantly, a centralized system will fail because..

FBI: “UNIQUE FORM OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM”

As of writing, we’re seeing widespread attacks on Bitcoin services, from Mt Gox to Blockchain.info. In a FBI press release, they state that they engage in “infiltration and disruption” on voluntary currencies that are not the Federal Reserve Dollar. What does this mean for Bitcoin, and Ripple?

It’s very very difficult to take down Bitcoin because it is decentralized. Everyone who runs the bitcoin client is a peer, and is passing transactions around, and everyone who mines votes with their hashing power. The bitcoin core dev team could be arrested – but new developers will simply take over.

But with Ripple, all it takes is a raid – like what has happened to the Liberty Dollar – to kill the entire network because of it’s centralization. An update could be pushed out to destroy all XRPs and transactions – and it will work because one entity has 51% attacked the network. That simply can’t be done with Bitcoin unless with an international attack on mining pool operators, and when that happens people will simply switch to solo mining.

UPDATE: As of May 15th, the Department of Homeland Security has seized Mt Gox, the world’s biggest cryptocurrency exchange’s Dwolla account funds. Court orders can seize your debt and fiat – but not your real bitcoins in your blockchain.

INHERENTLY FLAWED “DEBT IS MONEY” MODEL THAT WILL COLLAPSE

Send money in dollars, euros, yen or Bitcoin.
You don’t own “Bitcoins” or “USD” or anything on Ripple. You own debt. That’s another misleading claim, right on the Ripple home page. Anyone worth their salt knows that interest free debt is always worth less than what they represent. Yet the official (and only) Ripple client claims you have “BTC” or “USD”.. you don’t. You own debt.

Take a look at all the Bitcoin services that have being hacked. MtGox. Bitcoinica. MyBitcoin. Instawallet. You could have lost bitcoins you deposited there – debt – but if you held real bitcoins in your wallet, they were safe. When a Ripple gateway or currency issuer gets hacked, because you can only hold BTC and such as debt .. you lose them. But worse. If you’re unable to repay the debt you owe because someone defaulted on you, then the person you defaulted on might not be able to repay their debtors.

And because Ripple is based around debt being “money”, you have to take on debt to send even through it’s not presented in the UI. Every single bitcoin or dollar you sent has being debt. And as there is no limit to how many chains the debt can go.. Your friend might default because their friend of friend of friend of friend of friend has defaulted and the chain continues.

Ripple supporters (aka OpenCoin Inc Employees “speaking their own views”) point at small scale defaults that haven’t taken down the network. Of course it won’t. But a large enough default from a gateway will cause a collapse – there’s a critical mass.

IMAGINE THIS

The bitcoin core developers pushed out an update. Now, you can’t own bitcoins, you can only send debt. Pirateat40 is offering 7% a week on his bitcoin debt, and people go with him. Later, when he defaults, the whole bitcoin economy would have completely and utterly collapsed, because that domain name you bought for bitcoins – ahem – Pirateat40 bitcoin debt? Worth nothing. But wait, what if you had your friend’s debt? You could trust him personally! But he trusted a friend who had a friend that defaulted because he had all his coins in Pirateat40 debt. Oops.

The limitless “debt is money” model is inherently flawed because debt is not worth as much as money it represents. For a successful currency system, you need to send solid money – when either that’s USD in a bank insured by the US Govt where the risk is nearly none, or bitcoins proven on the public and decentralized blockchain. Not random debt.

IN CONCLUSION

I welcome open debate and discussion on the subject. I’m an early adopter of Ripple – having used it before it was publicly announced – but I need to point out what the inherit flaws are, and why Ripple is arguably a scam.

I could have taken my free XRPs and posted propaganda in support of Ripple, but that’s not the kind of person I am. I want to expose the world to the fraud of Ripple and OpenCoin Inc – what you will never see on the homepage.

Is Ripple a good payment system? I think it’s certainly novel. However, it is not decentralized. It barely has any relevance to Bitcoin. “it isn’t, it’s a for-profit currency run by a corporation”.
linuxer
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June 03, 2013, 01:45:07 PM
 #2

Blah Blah Blah.. we all know it's a scam, Instead of telling us, tell it to sites like bitstamp,weexchange etc those who are helping them to do scam.

They created all XRP, distributed some millions and now they will make millions from remaning millions XRP.
They can also produce any amount of XRP at any time.
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June 03, 2013, 01:53:18 PM
 #3

Read until the middle of the OP's post and realized that he's saying what I'm thinking. Never thought that such lies about Ripple being better then Bitcoin can easily get into peoples heads.

southoz
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June 05, 2013, 07:44:17 PM
 #4

So if it's a scam then why are you joining in by being an early adopter? Do you want to rip off people as well?
r.freeman
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June 05, 2013, 07:47:05 PM
 #5


FBI: “UNIQUE FORM OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM”

As of writing, we’re seeing widespread attacks on Bitcoin services, from Mt Gox to Blockchain.info. In a FBI press release, they state that they engage in “infiltration and disruption” on voluntary currencies that are not the Federal Reserve Dollar. What does this mean for Bitcoin, and Ripple?


Do you mind clarifying this part a bit....
Who stated that who engages in infiltration?
NumberFive
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June 05, 2013, 08:04:05 PM
 #6

I just don't see the need for ripple. Can a ripple fanboy give me some in-site?

Bitbuy
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June 06, 2013, 08:22:37 AM
 #7

nice thoughts in this article:
https://afbitcoins.wordpress.com/2013/05/30/ripples-a-debt-based-centrally-controlled-monetary-system/
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June 06, 2013, 08:29:08 AM
 #8

Is that you TradeFortress  Grin
Bataleon
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June 06, 2013, 08:45:24 AM
 #9

The Open Transactions library (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Open_Transactions) looks very promising to me, I think we will see future implementations of it that make Ripple obsolete in the long run.
Litvin
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December 30, 2017, 06:18:36 PM
Last edit: December 30, 2017, 07:03:00 PM by Litvin
 #10

Ripple is not crypto money - scam from bankers and government.
Ripple - is not open source;
Ripple - Each Ripple node is controlled by a private commercial company. It is centralized as a bank or PayPal. Not a decentralized currency.
Ripple - totally 100% with the pre-release issued by Ripple Labs, 65% were left to themselves and 35% sold;
Ripple - not anonymous;
Ripple - emission is possible in unlimited quantities;
Ripple - created by the richest states and banks of the world on the money of monopoly oligarchs, with one purpose to destroy and devalue in the public eye the world of crypto-currencies.
 It is very difficult to destroy bitokoyn, because it is decentralized. Everyone who manages the bitcoins client is peer and conducts transactions around, and everyone who picks up votes with their hashing. Bitcomoin group of kernel developers could be arrested, but new developers will just get the better.
 Take a look at all Bitcoin services that were hacked. MtGox. Bitcoinica. MyBitcoin. InstaWallet. You might lose bitkoyny, which you deposited there - debt - but if you kept the real bitkoy in their purse, they were safe. When a Ripple gateway or currency issuer is hacked, because you can only hold BTC and, for example, debt, you lose them.
   But with Ripple, all that's required is a raid-like what happened to Liberty Dollar-to kill the entire network because of its centralization. The update can be ejected to destroy all XRP and transactions - and this will work, because one object has 51% of the attack on the network. This simply can not be done with Bitcoin, if only with an international attack on mine pool operators, and when this happens, people will simply switch to solo development.
  Ripple supporters (for example, OpenCoin Inc employees who speak their own views) point to small default values that have not been disconnected from the network. Of course, this will not happen. But a sufficiently large default from the lock will lead to a crash - there is a critical mass
 States are afraid of crypto-currencies and criticize them. Ripple is not criticized by the authorities, states, politicians and bankers! You will not hear anything bad about Ripple from them.
 For several years Ripple will eat all the main crypto-currencies - this is the black hole of the crypto-currency market, launched by states and banks. The total capitalization of the crypto-currency market will remain insignificant, and the Ripple capitalization will grow due to the exhaustion of money from other crypto-currencies. When banks artificially depreciate the world's major crypto-currencies, with the help of Ripple, there will then be an unrestricted release of the Ripple (because of its centralization) and the owners' funds will also be depreciated with the help of huge inflation, and subsequently unlimited emissions Ripple will be completely destroyed by banks and their governments.
This will allow states to declare crypto money outlawed and never allow to return to private money and crypt.

 I’m an early adopter of Ripple – having used it before it was publicly announced – but I need to point out what the inherit flaws are, and why Ripple is arguably a scam.
I could have taken my free XRPs and posted propaganda in support of Ripple, but that’s not the kind of person I am. I want to expose the world to the fraud of Ripple and OpenCoin Inc – what you will never see on the homepage.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=224365.msg2358207#msg2358207
HappyCryptos
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December 30, 2017, 06:28:38 PM
 #11

I was thinking in investing in some ripple but after reading this I've changed my mind. I would have to do alot more research into it before buying any now, but from the info on here it's really not a good idea.
Thanks for sharing this
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December 30, 2017, 07:23:36 PM
 #12


I’m an early adopter of Ripple – having used it before it was publicly announced – but I need to point out what the inherit flaws are, and why Ripple is arguably a scam.


Why did you support them in the first place if it's centralized? I don't understand that part.

Nice insight though.
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December 30, 2017, 07:24:41 PM
 #13

What did you even know about cryptocurrency that you are given analysis
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December 30, 2017, 09:33:37 PM
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I am getting more enlighten, it is just to make profit and move on.

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December 31, 2017, 02:11:15 AM
 #15

this is one big pile of tinfoilhat gibberish !
Dont believe this guy
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December 31, 2017, 07:41:07 AM
 #16

How is Ripple deflationary, if the creation of the tokens don't stop? What is it now 99 billion tokens with a 1 million add every month? Compare it to Bitcoin's 16 million currently and it will "never" reach 21 million.
And it is not the Ripple tokens that hold the value, but the Ripple network. Partnered banks don't actually use the Ripple tokens, only network.
Not to mention that the token itself is unlicensed security
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December 31, 2017, 08:41:12 AM
 #17

this is one big pile of tinfoilhat gibberish !
Dont believe this guy
The name Ripple is RIP, the whole thing is in the name. Ripple killer of the crypto world.
Ripple is the RIP commercial corporation Ripple Labs, created with the money of billionaires and headed by them, look at the board of directors.
Ripple is not crypto money - scam from bankers and government, should RIP.
Ripple - is not open source;
Ripple - Each Ripple node is controlled by a private commercial company. It is centralized as a bank or PayPal. Not a decentralized currency. Therefore, it will be hacked in the near future.
Ripple - totally 100% with the pre-release issued by Ripple Labs, 65% were left to themselves and 35% sold;
Ripple - not anonymous;
Ripple - emission is possible in unlimited quantities;
Ripple - created by the richest states and banks of the world on the money of monopoly oligarchs, with one purpose to destroy and devalue in the public eye the world of crypto-currencies.
 It is very difficult to destroy bitokoyn, because it is decentralized. Everyone who manages the bitcoins client is peer and conducts transactions around, and everyone who picks up votes with their hashing. Bitcomoin group of kernel developers could be arrested, but new developers will just get the better.
LopkupHAchEnK
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December 31, 2017, 08:45:32 AM
 #18

I will never buy ripple
That is not good choice for now and future
YinShuiSiYuan
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December 31, 2017, 08:55:11 AM
 #19

We all know that Ripple is a banksters fake coin. Now inexperienced users are happy that they earn money because price is rising, but sooner or later banksters will want to take out profit from this investment and then everyone who stay will lose. This is like a financial pyramid - the most will be earned by those who entered at the beginning and those who will escape at the right moment.

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December 31, 2017, 09:01:35 AM
 #20

It's good to see posts about people realizing how centralized this damn thing is.

I have never intended to own any XRP, but I have traded it to earn BTC profits during its pumps. That's the whole utility I see for this shitcoin: to earn more BTC.
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