Bitcoin Forum
November 21, 2017, 10:28:50 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: What is the future of cryptocurrencies in terms of privacy?
Bitcoin as it is today
Bitcoin with the aid of lightning network
A fully anonymous cryptocurrency like Zcash
Monero
None of the above

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: So how much privacy do we really need?  (Read 7987 times)
bomberb17
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 486


View Profile
October 07, 2017, 04:27:47 AM
 #1

We all know that Bitcoin transactions are not anonymous but pseudo-anonymous, resulting in many problems like tainted coins etc.
Some cryptocurrencies offer significant more privacy (Monero, Zcash etc) but at a cost.
However my question is more fundamental: How 'much' privacy do we really need for a widely-adopted cryptocurrency?
I believe Bitcoin as-is won't get adopted for everyday transactions. Nobody would want showing his buying habits to the whole world (imagine how many ads and flyers you would get).
On the other hand, I don't believe cryptocurrencies that offer too much privacy will get adopted either, since they will be used for criminal activities and eventually get banned.
My feeling is that we want a currency that offers privacy to some extent, without revealing our transaction to the world but still be possible for law-enforcement to track illegal activities.
What do you think?
1511260130
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511260130

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511260130
Reply with quote  #2

1511260130
Report to moderator
1511260130
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511260130

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511260130
Reply with quote  #2

1511260130
Report to moderator
1511260130
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511260130

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511260130
Reply with quote  #2

1511260130
Report to moderator
Join ICO Now Coinlancer is Disrupting the Freelance marketplace!
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1511260130
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511260130

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511260130
Reply with quote  #2

1511260130
Report to moderator
1511260130
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511260130

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511260130
Reply with quote  #2

1511260130
Report to moderator
1511260130
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511260130

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511260130
Reply with quote  #2

1511260130
Report to moderator
TryNinja
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462



View Profile
October 07, 2017, 04:48:58 AM
 #2

Either we keep the blockchain public for everybody or we don't.

The main idea of bitcoin is the decentralization and independence of governments. This means that it's not possible to block a normal user from seeing your transaction history but allowing your government to do that so they can "track criminals" without giving them too much power.

People can get a little more privacy by not re-using their addresses. This way is harder to link all the payments to a single individual.

Wind_FURY
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 546



View Profile
October 07, 2017, 07:06:50 AM
 #3

We all know that Bitcoin transactions are not anonymous but pseudo-anonymous, resulting in many problems like tainted coins etc.
Some cryptocurrencies offer significant more privacy (Monero, Zcash etc) but at a cost.
However my question is more fundamental: How 'much' privacy do we really need for a widely-adopted cryptocurrency?
I believe Bitcoin as-is won't get adopted for everyday transactions. Nobody would want showing his buying habits to the whole world (imagine how many ads and flyers you would get).

A simple solution to this is to use an public address once and no more than that. Unless you specialize in blockchain analysis, I do not think ordinary users can trace everything in the blockchain.

Quote
On the other hand, I don't believe cryptocurrencies that offer too much privacy will get adopted either, since they will be used for criminal activities and eventually get banned.

Monero's solution is the "view key". If a law enforcement agency has a warrant to see all your transactions, you can give them your view key without giving up control of your wallet.


Quote
My feeling is that we want a currency that offers privacy to some extent, without revealing our transaction to the world but still be possible for law-enforcement to track illegal activities.
What do you think?

I believe Monero's view key solution is a good idea.

||▄▄▀▀▀▀▄            ▄▀▀▀▀▄▄
█▀▀▄   ▀▀▄      ▄▀▀   ▄███
█   █▀▄   ▀▀▄▄▀▀   ▄██████
█   █  ▀▀▄      ▄█████████
█   █     ▀▀▄▄██████▀▀████
█   █        ████▀  ▄▄████
█   █        █▀  ▄▄███████
█   █         ▄▄████▀▀████
█    ▀▄      ████▀  ▄▄████
 ▀▀▄   ▀▀▄   █▀  ▄█████▀▀
    ▀▀▄   ▀▀▄▄▄█████▀▀
       ▀▀▄   ████▀▀
          ▀▀▄█▀▀
▄▄▀▀▀▀▄            ▄▀▀▀▀▄▄
█▀▀▄   ▀▀▄      ▄▀▀   ▄███
█   █▀▄   ▀▀▄▄▀▀   ▄██████
█   █  ▀▀▄      ▄█████████
█   █     ▀▀▄▄██████▀▀████
█   █        ████▀  ▄▄████
█   █        █▀  ▄▄███████
█   █         ▄▄████▀▀████
█    ▀▄      ████▀  ▄▄████
 ▀▀▄   ▀▀▄   █▀  ▄█████▀▀
    ▀▀▄   ▀▀▄▄▄█████▀▀
       ▀▀▄   ████▀▀
          ▀▀▄█▀▀
[]|
suzanne5223
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252


View Profile
October 07, 2017, 07:33:24 AM
 #4

It better that bitcoin transaction are pseudo-anonymous and concern the bitcoin privacy issue. It will be bad for bitcoin if bitcoin transaction privacy were not revealing. We both know that despite the fact that  bitcoin transaction are revealing, one of the Australian leader still believe bitcoin was only use for criminal activities and the government of some countries that endorse bitcoin won't have endorse it.
smokeydog
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98


View Profile
October 07, 2017, 02:43:59 PM
 #5

Either we keep the blockchain public for everybody or we don't.


I agree 100 percent.   How much privacy do we really need?  Total, 100 percent when it comes to government interfering in our private affairs.  If they have cause, the follow procedure, get a warrant and the accused is innocent until proven guilty.   If they can prove something fine but,  no more of this patriot act garbage.   I have no fear of the whack job in North Korea but, the US Congress has the power to take my savings, all I have worked for, 60 years of work can be confiscated by a an American whack job like Bernie Sanders.   Hopefully gold, silver and bitcoin can help me protect what I have worked so long to build.

The only exception to less then 100 percent privacy is in the context of due process.   Our constitution and the rights of a free people are almost gone.  You can burn a flag but who cares, if our assets can be confiscated by the Fed and Congress with mechanics of money printing, inflation, people won't be able to buy a flag in the first place.
aleksej996
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126


★777Coin.com★ Fun BTC Casino!


View Profile
October 07, 2017, 02:50:53 PM
 #6

We all know that Bitcoin transactions are not anonymous but pseudo-anonymous, resulting in many problems like tainted coins etc.
Some cryptocurrencies offer significant more privacy (Monero, Zcash etc) but at a cost.
However my question is more fundamental: How 'much' privacy do we really need for a widely-adopted cryptocurrency?
I believe Bitcoin as-is won't get adopted for everyday transactions. Nobody would want showing his buying habits to the whole world (imagine how many ads and flyers you would get).
On the other hand, I don't believe cryptocurrencies that offer too much privacy will get adopted either, since they will be used for criminal activities and eventually get banned.
My feeling is that we want a currency that offers privacy to some extent, without revealing our transaction to the world but still be possible for law-enforcement to track illegal activities.
What do you think?

I disagree with both of your predictions. The lack or abundance of privacy probably won't affect the adoption, since Bitcoin is private enough and if you are careful you can reach a near perfect privacy, but you can also reach complete transparency if you desire so, it is completely up to the user.

Bitcoin is supposed to be used in way that you use different addresses for every transaction for security and privacy so there shouldn't be any problems with the lack of it. While other more private cryptocurrencies won't get banned either, since that is near impossible as well, it is hard to ban something that is decentralized and ever adopting like that.

I don't see a reason why we wouldn't have a soft-fork down the road for adding confidential transactions so people can use them if they want.

Spendulus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1694



View Profile
October 07, 2017, 03:05:32 PM
 #7

We all know that Bitcoin transactions are not anonymous but pseudo-anonymous....

I believe Bitcoin as-is won't get adopted for everyday transactions. Nobody would want showing his buying habits to the whole world (imagine how many ads and flyers you would get).....

Incorrect.

The simple use of Bitcoin in a transaction cannot result in (A) showing his buying habits to the entire world (B) increased volume of ads and flyers

These would be the result of (A) Your personal data being leaked from a bitcoin exchange (B) your personal data being leaked by the other party in a transaction
Aura
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252



View Profile
October 07, 2017, 03:14:46 PM
 #8

Bitcoin is anonymous because there is no personal information linked to the wallet address (if you don't use third party services like coinbase).
You're also not restricted to creating only one wallet per person.
The only privacy leak for Bitcoin is the meta data you send when you broadcast a transaction, this could be linked to your physical address.
I think it's comparable to cash, which is also anonymous but has your DNA on it

xFiber
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252


Ice Rock Mining- The Most Profitable Mining


View Profile
October 07, 2017, 03:53:20 PM
 #9

Bitcoin is anonymous because there is no personal information linked to the wallet address (if you don't use third party services like coinbase).
You're also not restricted to creating only one wallet per person.
The only privacy leak for Bitcoin is the meta data you send when you broadcast a transaction, this could be linked to your physical address.
I think it's comparable to cash, which is also anonymous but has your DNA on it
Completely agree. I feel like anonymity is necessary but   pushing anonymity to the extreme is not the way to go either. We should meet somewhere in the middle and that's where bitcoin nails it right on the head. Pseudo-anonymity is a lot better. Because having complete anonymity can be dangerous.
Karimeen
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
October 07, 2017, 04:01:23 PM
 #10

       


               Everybody would like to keep their confidentiality during the financial transactions whether it is Cryptocurrency or paper currency.The transaction function of bitcoin is totally different that bitcoin allows to store the funds by yourself without a third party interference so there is no burden in keeping the fund but in traditional bank account requires significant cost and much effort. For creating a bitcoin account is much easier to create in our home computer.
LeGaulois
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518


View Profile
October 07, 2017, 05:33:11 PM
 #11

We all know that Bitcoin transactions are not anonymous but pseudo-anonymous, resulting in many problems like tainted coins etc.
Some cryptocurrencies offer significant more privacy (Monero, Zcash etc) but at a cost.
However my question is more fundamental: How 'much' privacy do we really need for a widely-adopted cryptocurrency?
I believe Bitcoin as-is won't get adopted for everyday transactions. Nobody would want showing his buying habits to the whole world (imagine how many ads and flyers you would get).
On the other hand, I don't believe cryptocurrencies that offer too much privacy will get adopted either, since they will be used for criminal activities and eventually get banned.
My feeling is that we want a currency that offers privacy to some extent, without revealing our transaction to the world but still be possible for law-enforcement to track illegal activities.
What do you think?

Most of the recent adopters and all those jumping after 2013-2014 are not so interested in Bitcoin for its anonymity that you can get with it. What Bitcoin provides is more than enough for most of them. How much privacy is needed is depending on the activity of the people using it. And most of the activity doesn't need more privacy than that

Others Altcoins with more privacy may be used for criminal/illegal activities we can't deny it, but comparing with the dollar it's nothing

bomberb17
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 486


View Profile
October 07, 2017, 08:49:59 PM
 #12

We all know that Bitcoin transactions are not anonymous but pseudo-anonymous, resulting in many problems like tainted coins etc.
Some cryptocurrencies offer significant more privacy (Monero, Zcash etc) but at a cost.
However my question is more fundamental: How 'much' privacy do we really need for a widely-adopted cryptocurrency?
I believe Bitcoin as-is won't get adopted for everyday transactions. Nobody would want showing his buying habits to the whole world (imagine how many ads and flyers you would get).
On the other hand, I don't believe cryptocurrencies that offer too much privacy will get adopted either, since they will be used for criminal activities and eventually get banned.
My feeling is that we want a currency that offers privacy to some extent, without revealing our transaction to the world but still be possible for law-enforcement to track illegal activities.
What do you think?

I disagree with both of your predictions. The lack or abundance of privacy probably won't affect the adoption, since Bitcoin is private enough and if you are careful you can reach a near perfect privacy, but you can also reach complete transparency if you desire so, it is completely up to the user.

Bitcoin is supposed to be used in way that you use different addresses for every transaction for security and privacy so there shouldn't be any problems with the lack of it. While other more private cryptocurrencies won't get banned either, since that is near impossible as well, it is hard to ban something that is decentralized and ever adopting like that.

I don't see a reason why we wouldn't have a soft-fork down the road for adding confidential transactions so people can use them if they want.

Bitcoin does not offer any privacy. You create a new, empty wallet address? Yes it is anonymous. Do you get some coins from your friend? Now you are linked with your friend and whoever your friend is in turn linked to. Do you buy some coins from an exchange? Now you are linked with that exchange (which in most cases collects your personal information). Do you buy something from overstock? Now you are linked with that store. And these links are permanent. You could create another wallet and send your coins there, but all you can manage is to just make another link to all of the above.
All this is being done: https://www.elliptic.co/financial-institutions/
Also for those who still don't want to accept it, watch this from Greg Maxwell himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHPYNZ8i1cU

Regarding another 100% private cryptocurrency, in the end yes it will be banned from the government(s) (see China for example). The coin itself cannot be banned, but the exchanges can. And that currency will sooner or later be used for illegal purposes (Alphabay etc.)
cr1776
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708


View Profile
October 07, 2017, 09:51:21 PM
 #13

The more privacy the better. Then individuals can themselves decide if they wish to relinquish some (or all)based on their own beliefs. The nature of freedom.

If one person wants a camera in their bedroom and all their purchases online, that is their business.  If another doesn’t, that is their’s too.
Xylber
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 75

Here since 2013


View Profile WWW
October 07, 2017, 10:11:25 PM
 #14

Either we keep the blockchain public for everybody or we don't.

100% agree

ENGLISH to SPANISH Translator
~ Service Thread ~ 0.03 per word ~
aleksej996
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126


★777Coin.com★ Fun BTC Casino!


View Profile
October 07, 2017, 10:40:25 PM
 #15

Bitcoin does not offer any privacy. You create a new, empty wallet address? Yes it is anonymous. Do you get some coins from your friend? Now you are linked with your friend and whoever your friend is in turn linked to. Do you buy some coins from an exchange? Now you are linked with that exchange (which in most cases collects your personal information). Do you buy something from overstock? Now you are linked with that store. And these links are permanent. You could create another wallet and send your coins there, but all you can manage is to just make another link to all of the above.
All this is being done: https://www.elliptic.co/financial-institutions/
Also for those who still don't want to accept it, watch this from Greg Maxwell himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHPYNZ8i1cU

Regarding another 100% private cryptocurrency, in the end yes it will be banned from the government(s) (see China for example). The coin itself cannot be banned, but the exchanges can. And that currency will sooner or later be used for illegal purposes (Alphabay etc.)

I am going to watch a video, but it is kind of long so it will take some time, but I still think that it offers good privacy. Sure it links you with your identity, but it also links you with plenty of other identities that don't need to have anything to do with you. You can always send your coins to a new address and no one can really know if it is still you. And when you buy it in person from someone, even if he is your friend, there isn't a reliable way to know that those coins belonged or maybe even still belonged to your friend in the first place. It is very hard to find an owner of a address, go ahead, try it yourself. There are mixers as well and Bitcoins can often travel through person to person trades or a bunch of in-wallet transactions.

I just claim that it isn't no privacy, it isn't that easy at all. It is quite the effort if someone is careful. And it is recommended to use a different address for every payment. There is nothing that is 100%, if anyone is really motivated they will always get you, that is the reality, but it can be very very hard with very little effort on the other user's part.

It is more then 150GB of simple transactions, that is a lot of analysis to do. You are trying to track a fish in an forever moving ocean.

cotton ball
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350


JOLYY - The future of beauty!


View Profile
October 07, 2017, 10:42:42 PM
 #16

It's debatable, 1 user has the potential to take any action, it will be difficult for the government to track addresses that perpetually transact and eventually stop tracking when the addres are replaced in a complex way.

I try to be neutral if the government wants my account privacy to be known then I will give it away, I can create another address for personal use.

            ███           ▄▄▄████████▄▄▄           ███       ▀███          ▀██▄ ▄██▀          ███▀
            ███         ▄████▀▀    ▀▀████▄         ███         ███          ▀█████           ███
            ███       ▄███▀            ▀███▄       ███          ▀██▄         ▄███▄         ▄██▀
            ███      ███▀                ▀███      ███            ███       ███▀███       ███
            ███     ███▀                  ▀███     ███             ▀██▄   ▄██▀   ▀██▄   ▄██▀
            ███     ███                    ███     ███               ███▄██▀       ▀██▄██▀
            ███     ███                    ███     ███                ▀███▀         ▀███▀
            ███     ███                    ███     ███                 ███           ███
            ███     ███▄                  ▄███     ███                 ███           ███
            ███      ███▄                ▄███      ███                 ███           ███
           ███▀       ▀███▄            ▄███▀       ▀███                ███           ███
██▄▄▄  ▄▄▄███▀          ▀████▄▄    ▄▄████▀          ▀███▄▄▄  ▄▄▄██     ███           ███
▀▀████████▀▀              ▀▀▀████████▀▀▀              ▀▀████████▀▀     ███           ███
           T H E   F U T U R E             
                       o f   B E A U T Y


 ▀█▄             ▄▄▄▄▄▄
   ▀█▄      ▄▄███▀▀▀▀
    ▄██     ▀▀▀     ▄▄▄▄
 ▄▄▄ ██         ▄     ▀▀██▄
▀█▀█▀█▀▄       █▄     ▄██▀
               ▀████████
               ▀ ▀ ▀ ▀ ▀


      ▄▄
     ▀█▀▀▀

    █▄
     ███████▀▀▀
    █▄
      ▀▀▀▀▀
shesheboy
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112


View Profile
October 08, 2017, 12:20:34 AM
 #17

We all know that Bitcoin transactions are not anonymous but pseudo-anonymous, resulting in many problems like tainted coins etc.
Some cryptocurrencies offer significant more privacy (Monero, Zcash etc) but at a cost.
However my question is more fundamental: How 'much' privacy do we really need for a widely-adopted cryptocurrency?
I believe Bitcoin as-is won't get adopted for everyday transactions. Nobody would want showing his buying habits to the whole world (imagine how many ads and flyers you would get).
On the other hand, I don't believe cryptocurrencies that offer too much privacy will get adopted either, since they will be used for criminal activities and eventually get banned.
My feeling is that we want a currency that offers privacy to some extent, without revealing our transaction to the world but still be possible for law-enforcement to track illegal activities.
What do you think?

i think that being anonymous is not really a big deal to most of us here or other people who uses bitcoin because most of us are happy and contented to what bitcoin has to offer and how does it works online/offline and were okay on it. if your doing illegal acticvities and dont want to be trace then use some anoymous service like tor or vpn and that would solve your concerns regarding on privacy.

warningsigns
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 742


View Profile
October 08, 2017, 12:34:18 AM
 #18

Anonymity is secondary to me. I don't do illegal things so I am not concerned about the KYC and AML rules. It's knowing I am dealing with a legitimate entity, exchange, person etc that matters to me most. With legitimacy comes peace of mind.

I know privacy matters to most here and is perhaps even their primary reason for using bitcoin. But it comes with a price. As you can see, banks are reluctant to partner with exchanges that offer total anonymity to those they engage with. Governments are just as reluctant to accredit and recognise such exchanges. The reality is we live in a world where control is the key word. Governments control our lives and money. Changing that will not be an overnight process. Fighting that power and control is a difficult war. They have the means and tools to build walls and enforce sanctions which are powerful ways to keep people on a short leash.

 

bomberb17
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 486


View Profile
October 08, 2017, 01:51:05 AM
 #19

Anonymity is not only for criminals and drug dealers. Anonymity is essential for everyday users, but is also required for businesses.
Imagine a business buying and selling in bitcoin. I don't think if you run this business you would want your competitors to know how much you sell, how much you buy and who you buy from.
The transactions can't be linked by a regular user, but they can by professionals.
YIY Company
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 6


View Profile WWW
October 08, 2017, 02:46:16 AM
 #20

mb creation of the wallet must be limmited, may have any person verification with passport? Create the wallet using the special service with verification, and that service will controll all transactions legality. Block of blockchain will have personal data witch can be read only by "admins"
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!