S.MG - The Ministry of Games.

[ffssixtynine]

Woah there. If you want a deal for a game that's not the way to do it!

Publisher: you don't need one. You may want a funder.

Terms: 70:30 in their favour? That had better be a lot of funding.

And lots of other stuff...

[1715465640]

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[1715465640]

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[MPOE-PR]

I had some interest in learning about MG because I'm a gamer, investor, etc.. but after reading this entire thread it's clear to me that this is no investment. There's no experience to speak of, no real plan that I can see and MP comes across as the biggest douche on the internet. Get over yourself dude, you might learn a thing or two.

It's mind blowing MG has been able to raise any sort of funds. The community really needs to be a lot more diligent.

Not only are you wrong, but you're also clueless.

I looked at this site when they first started, I thought it looked terrible (it did, and still does), I didn't know anything about the founder and just assumed it was a scam.

Is it really that popular?

People random clueless noobs just like yourself were saying the same thing a year ago. They were making the same wrong choices based on the same broken thought process a year ago. They are no longer with us, for those reasons.

Do yourself a favor and follow the same advice I've given to all the other random clueless noobs outspoken idiots in this thread. Keep quiet until you have a clue and use the time to do your reading.

People are often stupid.
Look at how many throw their money at obvious scams.
Look at how many don't even try to get the money back after they have been scammed.

No. Not "people". Not some vague imaginary thing way over there.

You. You are stupid. You fail to distinguish scams from actual deals.

it could rival Nethack.

I think that's very bold.

Woah there. If you want a deal for a game that's not the way to do it!

Publisher: you don't need one. You may want a funder.

Terms: 70:30 in their favour? That had better be a lot of funding.

And lots of other stuff...

So you came here with your delusions of self importance, got thoroughly humiliated and somehow just can't let go. Too thick to pick up on your own failure or what exactly is the matter?

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Dude. Shut the fuck up about "the industry". On this Internet everyone knows you're a dog, you have no business with "the industry".
[...]
If/Once you get over yourself you'll probably find your way to the assets chan...

MPOE-PR, leaving aside the blindingly obvious, what do you think of this: http://www.tsukino.ca/netwhack/

It's something I put together in my spare time on and off the first few years I was teaching English in Japan. It seems to me that Mircea is interested (somewhat) in those old-school type of games. Notice the interface. Anyway, with a bit of serious love it could rival Nethack. If you understand what I am talking about, and have ever played a monetized MUD (i.e. Medievia) you will know there is a market here.

The question I pose to you is, will you turn down an easy market? If you would like, maybe we can work together and S.MG can publish my game. If you want to talk terms may I suggest a 70%-30% split in favor of S.MG contingent upon a list of features being added to the game at your discretion; I am also more than willing to work for shares in the company as any participant in a startup should be. Let me know!

You want me to download Java..

[Peter Lambert]

Not only are you wrong, but you're also clueless.

I looked at this site when they first started, I thought it looked terrible (it did, and still does), I didn't know anything about the founder and just assumed it was a scam.

Is it really that popular?

People random clueless noobs just like yourself were saying the same thing a year ago. They were making the same wrong choices based on the same broken thought process a year ago. They are no longer with us, for those reasons.

LOL at the quote from Nefario. Althought, I don't think he counts as a random clueless noob, he is more like the leader of all clueless noobs.

[usagi]

You want me to download Java..

Actually I would prefer if Netwhack was an example of why you should already have it installed in the first place.

Hey, no one is asking you to put it in your browser

[ffssixtynine]

You want me to download Java..

I am no fan of java and you have to be crazy to start any web project in it these days, but there are successful games that still run in Java profitably.

[Lohoris]

I am no fan of java and you have to be crazy to start any web project in it these days, but there are successful games that still run in Java profitably.

If you are thinking about Minecraft then yes, it's definitely profitable and written in Java, but if it wasn't it would have so much better performances...

[Lohoris]

His best move now would be to hire someone that knows what they are doing.

If you know what you are doing and do your homework, you also know you don't want to work for him.
Unless, of course, he pays you upfront and gives you carte blanche.

[ffssixtynine]

The reality of the industry is that only a handful of the hundreds of video game companies started every year actually end up with some kind of product, and even fewer make any money, and maybe one or two actually succeed.

The biggest roadblock is the lack of capital and MP seems to have made a good start, but simply having money isn't enough. I think the odds are still overwhelmingly against him. His best move now would be to hire someone that knows what they are doing.

Furthermore, even if MP does succeed, it is not unusual for a company starting from scratch to take years to develop their first product. Investors might have to wait a long time to see any return on their investment.

This. Although flash and mobile stuff shouldn't take years.

And not to have Mpoe-pr anywhere near pr. You can imagine how that will turn out with journos, gaming forums, reddit, et al! Popcorn time.

The company concept may yet be ok - not that I have evidence of that - but the pr will kill it even if it is.

[usagi]

You want me to download Java..

I am no fan of java and you have to be crazy to start any web project in it these days, but there are successful games that still run in Java profitably.

I don't see that at all. Sure, it's something of a meme to hate Java, but there's really nothing else that is as useful. Nothing else really compares to what you can do in Java. Most of the complaints about Java are 10 years old. Which says a lot for Java. I mean, I just love it when people say that Java is slow or that it doesn't have closures, it's almost as if they are the fish that didn't make the jump and they're being left behind, in the past. You can actually see the clouds forming in people's brains as they stop thinking when you tell them Java is as fast as C for many implementations, and has had closures for years.

[nubbins]

You can actually see the clouds forming in people's brains as they stop thinking when you tell them Java is as fast as C for many implementations, and has had closures for years.

Cognitive dissonance. You should see people's faces when I argue that Visual Studio is a really good IDE.

[MPOE-PR]

Actually I would prefer if Netwhack was an example of why you should already have it installed in the first place.

Hey, no one is asking you to put it in your browser

Nethack predates Java by about as much as your mental age.

The biggest roadblock is the lack of capital and MP seems to have made a good start, but simply having money isn't enough. I think the odds are still overwhelmingly against him.

This is pretty much spot on.

His best move now would be to hire someone that knows what they are doing.

This is pretty much nonsense. The only way to establish that someone KNEW what they were doing with games is in the retrospective. Same as movies and everything else in the line.

If you know what you are doing and do your homework, you also know you don't want to work for him.
Unless, of course, he pays you upfront and gives you carte blanche.

Dream on. You've got a ways to go to carry the man's coffee yet.

[ThickAsThieves]

His best move now would be to hire someone that knows what they are doing.

This is pretty much nonsense. The only way to establish that someone KNEW what they were doing with games is in the retrospective. Same as movies and everything else in the line.

I'm interested in learning the subtleties in the distinction between Mircea's known position that a person's capability is measured by the successes they have demonstrated, and how that seemingly conflicts with your statement.

Yes, things change and past success does not guarantee future success, but it helps to be experienced, no?

Or do you feel that the true measure in demonstrating success is tied to agility/adaptability in a string of successes?

I do think the more entrenched you become in a school of thought, the more likely you are to have those with more perspective eat your lunch, but where is the line here?

[MPOE-PR]

His best move now would be to hire someone that knows what they are doing.

This is pretty much nonsense. The only way to establish that someone KNEW what they were doing with games is in the retrospective. Same as movies and everything else in the line.

I'm interested in learning the subtleties in the distinction between Mircea's known position that a person's capability is measured by the successes they have demonstrated, and how that seemingly conflicts with your statement.

Yes, things change and past success does not guarantee future success, but it helps to be experienced, no?

Or do you feel that the true measure in demonstrating success is tied to agility/adaptability in a string of successes?

I do think the more entrenched you become in a school of thought, the more likely you are to have those with more perspective eat your lunch, but where is the line here?

Well, I have no idea where the line is. MP makes the calls as to the future, apparently history goes into it but I'm pretty sure it's not the whole story. Perhaps the confusion comes from your mixing professional stuff (such as for instance being a banker) with creative stuff. Willy nilly creative stuff is a hit and miss affair, there's no escaping that.

Otherwise it certainly helps to be experienced. It's just the experienced are never the dorks declaring that on some lolforum. Compare noob MP with the string of noobs on parade here, hi I'm X doing Y vs anon nobody doing nothing. Not a very hard call to make in the end.

[usagi]

Actually I would prefer if Netwhack was an example of why you should already have it installed in the first place.

Hey, no one is asking you to put it in your browser

Nethack predates Java by about as much as your mental age.

And yet there it is -- my fully functional roguelike, in all it's glory. Disturbing, isn't it?

[ffssixtynine]

His best move now would be to hire someone that knows what they are doing.

This is pretty much nonsense. The only way to establish that someone KNEW what they were doing with games is in the retrospective. Same as movies and everything else in the line.

I'm interested in learning the subtleties in the distinction between Mircea's known position that a person's capability is measured by the successes they have demonstrated, and how that seemingly conflicts with your statement.

Yes, things change and past success does not guarantee future success, but it helps to be experienced, no?

Or do you feel that the true measure in demonstrating success is tied to agility/adaptability in a string of successes?

I do think the more entrenched you become in a school of thought, the more likely you are to have those with more perspective eat your lunch, but where is the line here?

Well, I have no idea where the line is. MP makes the calls as to the future, apparently history goes into it but I'm pretty sure it's not the whole story. Perhaps the confusion comes from your mixing professional stuff (such as for instance being a banker) with creative stuff. Willy nilly creative stuff is a hit and miss affair, there's no escaping that.

Otherwise it certainly helps to be experienced. It's just the experienced are never the dorks declaring that on some lolforum. Compare noob MP with the string of noobs on parade here, hi I'm X doing Y vs anon nobody doing nothing. Not a very hard call to make in the end.

That's a vaguely more sensible post.

Creative stuff is professional though. The creative element in a game varies from quite a bit to very small indeed.

The vast majority of people in the game dev world are engineers or artists. The artwork is creative in a way obviously, but it's usually little different to working on The Simpsons or whatever. It takes talent and effort but you're a cog in a machine, and there is no shortage of good artists.

In both of the above cases you're looking for experience every single time. Within the indie world, many people are surprisingly experienced and amazingly talented. Often there is a mix, and often there has been a lot of tutoring going on. In almost every case, advice is given by other indies to help out on a lot of areas that you simply can't know about without having experience.

I also wouldn't describe creative stuff as willy nilly. That indicates you don't understand the nature of creativity or how it applies to game development.

In your second paragraph you say 'the experienced are never the dorks declaring that on some lolforum'. Actually you're very wrong. I, and many other game developers, well known and otherwise, are on a number of forums.

Being obnoxious when you don't know who people are, let alone when some of us are not anonymous, is very poor business sense. That is how people will see you, gamers, and professional developers.

I may have been on the fence over the fund if it wasn't for your attitude, but if anyone asked me now whether to work for MP I'd say no way and point them here. It makes the fund wreak of lack of professionalism. Don't you see that?

[greyhawk]

Anyway, with a bit of serious love it could rival Nethack.

[usagi]

Anyway, with a bit of serious love it could rival Nethack.

img]http://media2.giphy.com/media/SF2yVevU62cYU/giphy.gif[/img]

Yeah, funny, isn't it? And yet, there it is: Netwhack.

 

My, look at all that egg on your face! BTW, serious love = less than 3 months. It's just that I don't get paid to develop nethack clones. If there was any money on the line whatsoever I would put out a game better than nethack in about that time plus a few.

Fun fact of the day: Nethack's item and monster data is compatible with Netwhack. This is because Netwhack was initially written in C++, and was initially a port of Nethack to C++. Most of the data you see in-game is original though, as I didn't want to offend anyone on the devteam... yet  

[MPOE-PR]

I may have been on the fence over the fund if it wasn't for your attitude, but if anyone asked me now whether to work for MP I'd say no way and point them here. It makes the fund wreak of lack of professionalism. Don't you see that?

A. Stop interjecting yourself in the discussions of adults as if you were one. You aren't one.
B. Learn to spell.
C. Look up what words mean, read up on what's being discussed. S.MG is not a "fund".

[greyhawk]

Anyway, with a bit of serious love it could rival Nethack.

img]http://media2.giphy.com/media/SF2yVevU62cYU/giphy.gif[/img]

Yeah, funny, isn't it? And yet, there it is: Netwhack.

 

My, look at all that egg on your face! BTW, serious love = less than 3 months. It's just that I don't get paid to develop nethack clones. If there was any money on the line whatsoever I would put out a game better than nethack in about that time plus a few.

Fun fact of the day: Nethack's item and monster data is compatible with Netwhack. This is because Netwhack was initially written in C++, and was initially a port of Nethack to C++. Most of the data you see in-game is original though, as I didn't want to offend anyone on the devteam... yet  

oic, you're talking about technical aspects.

That's not what people mean when they talk about things rivaling other things. It's about cultural impact. In the context of gamer culture the things that rival nethack/rogue are ADVENT, Space Invaders, Elite, スーパーマリオブラザーズ or id Software's 1992 Castle Wolfenstein remake. Your copy with a few bits slapped on is not one of these.