stripykitteh
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August 29, 2013, 03:02:51 AM |
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Lastly, I'm still not clear on the PC connection type. What we can see in picture #72 on the bottom right is a Raspberri Pi, and those have both USB and Ethernet connections, but not sure which one(s) the software will support. In Picture#73, I don't see any cables coming out of the Ethernet port, so not sure if this unit was even plugged in or what.
Sheesh, I actually own a Pi and I didn't notice that! So it looks like it will be standalone. |
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digitalmagus
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August 30, 2013, 10:20:34 PM |
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Thanks for that stripykitteh, I've just checked my email, nothing in from Metabank. As for, legkodymov (according to my translator 'oolex') appears to be a Metabank employee or contractor but we are not 100% clear on this. Oolex explained that the previous guy we were getting forum info from "mu3" was having his questions answered by this "legkodymov". So at minimum legkodymov is very well connected with Metabank, but we also couldn't find any "hey I'm legkodymov and I work for Metabank" type posts though. These Russian guys sure like to keep everyone guessing, heh. At any rate, legkodymov also stated here... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.msg3045506#msg3045506.... "Let's keep our fingers crossed that everything is going to be alright and in 3 weeks time we'll have everything unloaded (shipped)" Oolex also analyzed the video, no major clues there, just observations of the color "like a new year spruce tree" (because PCBs are green), and "the case is made of plastic". I've asked oolex to post some questions as follows. They should be up within the hour or so. Questions will be: First, thank you very much for all the info you provided so far, much appreciated! Now for some questions:
1) Legjodymov - Can you please confirm for us your relationship with Metabank? Are you employee? contractor? friend? customer? something else?
2) By "unload everything in 3 weeks" do you mean you will start now, and be finished to deliver every box in 3 weeks, or that in 3 weeks you will be ready to ship all units, but not until then, or something else?
3) Can you tell us if we are to receive an email when our order is ready for pickup, or what is the procedure?
4) Will Metabank be telling us what is our order #?
5) Can you tell us who will get single boxes or double boxes? Do we have to email to make special request?
6) Will single boxes be 1/2 the size of double box, or single and double ship in the same box?
7) If software modifications cannot achieve 120GH, then will Metabank add extra blade to make up for lack of speed?
Thank you for you time.
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fpgaminer
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August 31, 2013, 12:16:13 AM |
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Very exciting news!
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digitalmagus
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August 31, 2013, 01:01:32 AM |
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Ok, so after reading the plethora of posts today in the Russian 65nm thread it seems nearly all the questions we had, have already been either asked, mostly answered or sufficiently implied ;-) Here's what we were able to dig up in response to our own questions. Anything in ( ) brackets is my commentary. When questions are asked about Metabank and legkodymov replies, he always replies with "we" and offers technical info nobody else has, so it may be safe to assume he works for Metabank or is heavily involved with them on the tech side of things. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.msg3041979#msg3041979"alexxy: 'in the meantime, metabank, as i was told today on phone, yesterday started sending the orders  "then 2 posts down... from user fsb4000:"1) The first shipping started yesterday, strange that the first buyers didn't spread the good riddance.
2) Expansion options are going to be similar for 120gh/s devices and more powerful ones (double devices). 120gh/s will have slots for 8 boards, but with 5 installed. The double units with 240gh/s devices there slots for 16 boards, but 10 are installed 10. So i'm not that much against double devices anymore. At least, as many extra boards can be installed.
3) power supplies are sized appropriately for the number of boards provided"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.msg3042096#msg3042096"Sergauskazz: interesting... i paid for my devices in the first several hours, the page wasn't public yet, but i haven't gotten any emails or phone calls...Ok, I now called Timur, unloading of the first devices was confirmed. mine aren't ready yet, apprently, there must be more earlier comrades. waitin'."https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.msg3043321#msg3043321
"hooray (the user who posted the pics): Tonight at 1:11 AM (not a typo) near to metabank's office I got the first 240gh/sec devices (in one case [meaning double]) it happened that the first lucky owners are me and my colleagues. During the meeting we got a feeling that metabank guys are sleeping at the office, assembling the devices. They were very tired, but full of enthusiasm. Respect them for the work that they're doing, and that they aren't feeding the trolls on this forum instead.
After receiving the box, because of some weather-related circumstances, it took us long to reach the installation place and only started it [since this point he speaks of one device] early in the morning, then i fell asleep, that's why i'm writing just now.
At this moment the device is stabily generating 196gh/sec with 0.7% of rejects (chips aren't overclocked). As the guys at Metabank said, the software has to be improved a bit, updates will be published on the website (blog?). Apart from that, the web interface isn't working properly, they also promised to fix it in the upcoming days. (Then he posted pictures and the video)"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.msg3043424#msg3043424"DarkSova: What is the temperature of aluminium heat sinks on chips when you tuch them, not overheating?
UserPC: Heat sinks aren't on chips, but on the rear side of the board (This is expected due to QFN48 chip package, heatsinks must go under not on top). Temperature of the chips is easily tolerable by a finger. I don't think it's more than 60 degrees. (So this sounds like the heatsinks are doing the job, but obviously chips aren't hashing at 3GH either.)"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.msg3043618#msg3043618"integ: Is it possible to sleep nearby the device? (question about fan noise)
userPC: [Yes], normal pc tower makes more noise"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.msg3043977#msg3043977"SectorZero: I doubt that just by software fix you can get 240GH from the current 196GH. Chip simply doesn't work on 3gh (this is not necessarily true), and if you take it as 2.7gh [consider its real power] then apparently there wouldn't be enough chips for everyone. maybe the buyers will get extra boards in the future. Otherwise it's not nice.
legkodymov: boards come in standard form without extra tuning. If you work on each board for an hour, you could get 3GH. If you're interested in that kind of a device, it'll be delivered LAST."So, as per some of the above posts, it looks like Metabank has actually started delivering!, at least in low volume. Now before we all get very excited, note our first machine wasn't purchased until June 2nd, and Metabank started selling several days before that according to this spreadsheet put together by fsb4000... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmyZBD2EHCEEdG9SdENBV0l4YnNuNklrdDItMTJwdlE#gid=0... which is not entirely accurate of course, but a good effort none-the-less. You'll note we have 57 devices listed which is accurate, but they were not all ordered on the same day, but rather spread over about 10 days. Also, please note this spreadsheet was put together from forum posts that he was able to find, so in all likelihood there are even more orders not listed. If you do the math, before June 2nd there were at least 113 boxes ordered. So it may still be a while yet before we start getting ours, but I will be checking our email daily now, and will try to call metabank tomorrow to see if we can get any kind of ETA. Failing an ETA, as per legkodymov, he hopes to have all orders delivered over the next 3 weeks, so if they manage to achieve this timeline, this would put us at Sept 20th to receive the last boxes from them. Again, I expect to be in Moscow well before the 20th (assuming the Visa/customs/consulate gods allow me), and I can tell you I plan to be there past the 20th, so we should be covered. Cheers, Luis |
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fpgaminer
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August 31, 2013, 05:02:33 AM |
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Chip simply doesn't work on 3gh (this is not necessarily true), and if you take it as 2.7gh [consider its real power] then apparently there wouldn't be enough chips for everyone. Sounds to me like Metabank overestimated the performance of the chips, and thus didn't order enough of them and/or didn't order enough of the right resistors. *shrugs* Oh well. I'm glad they chose to ship as-is; better a slightly underperforming device now, than a proper device some undefined time in the future. Thank you for the update digitalmagus! My excitement shall continue... |
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digitalmagus
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September 05, 2013, 07:58:12 PM |
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Hi guys, Just thought I'd drop another update. In case you haven't noticed the page count of the 65nm Russian thread has increased by 100 (!). Sifting through all the trolling has taken many hours. A large portion of it is people bitching about only getting 96-105GH instead of the 120GH, the delivery time and number of units delivered per day (as of yesterday estimated to be somewhere around a total of 29 - not the initial 40 per day they mentioned). First, let me start off an update with an email that came directly from Metabank yesterday and that we've translated without any omissions as we want to be 100% transparent with our customers - you'll know what I mean when you are done reading it. Anything in brackets () are my comments. I've also highlighted key points. METABANK EMAIL: "Tomorrow we're receiving the first batch of soldered boards, on the 13th (of September) -- the last batch. In the best case we'll hand over the last device on the 15th. (no comments on worst case scenario).
HUGE REQUEST! Don't call us by phone with questions _when_ (can I get my unit?) ? It significantly distracts us from work, the phone is ringing since morning till deep night.
We'll surely call everyone and clarify the details of the handover (from Metabank to customers). If you have some wishes, send them to (our) bitcoin.ru mail.
All mails are being read! There is a lot of mails, therefore there simply isn't enough time to respond to everyone.
There is no possibility to hire a suitable person right now, later on we will certainly adjust our feedback.
(What) Can be written by mail:
- (Specify your) reliable TK (probably meaning 'transport company') that can deliver 5kg per 1 device safe and sound;
- (Specify if) You want to come personally to pick up the device;
- For Moscow, pick up untested components (even more reason for us to test it now) :The case has to be glued together, fans and power supply to be fastened, boards to be connected using several wires, miner boards to be installed in specific order, figure out how to manage Raspberry Pi;
- Cancel the delivery and take back Bitcoins (see below);
Password for ghash.io you will soon receive as a separate letter. (FYI, by default the machines will point to the mining pool ghash.io. People are already discussing how to reconfigure to other pools)
P.S. Regarding refunds:
Today a refund was requested and during the call I asked the reason. It won't pay off. Mu3antrop, whom I asked to clarify why, told me the same thing today. Turns out, the estimate assumed the difficulty would keep growing by 30% per round adjustment.
With such an estimate the device may not see ROI. If you also think that the difficulty will keep going up without slackening pace, I'm offering you to do the refund now, while there still is a possibility. (BitCentury unfortunately is not able to extend this refund offer to our customers - I will explain below)"
In regards to the last section on refunds, we regret to inform that unfortunately, it is too late for us (BitCentury) to extend this offer to our customers. As per our contract, the offer was available only for the first 29 days after purchase. At this point, we've incurred substantial operational costs that as it stands if we're lucky we'll either break even or make a small profit - we too were surprised at the abrupt end of sales by Metabank and had counted on selling many more units. In a way we were lucky we had just broken even on the day it ended - given our operational cost assumptions which thus far appear to be very close to our estimates. Any refunds now, even a small volume, would put us in negative financial territory. |
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fpgaminer
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September 07, 2013, 03:53:39 AM |
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Thank you for the update, digitalmagus. I'm fine with the no-refund policy; expected no different. I'm still excited the get the units. as of yesterday estimated to be somewhere around a total of 29 As in, they're shipping 29 units per day so far? That's not bad at all. Any estimate, based on that figure, of when our units might be ready for pick-up? By the way, there has been a few technical updates on their blog here. Nothing significant from what I saw. |
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digitalmagus
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September 07, 2013, 04:28:06 PM |
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Thank you for the update, digitalmagus. As in, they're shipping 29 units per day so far? That's not bad at all. Any estimate, based on that figure, of when our units might be ready for pick-up?
Hi fpgaminer, You're welcome. No, I had read 2 estimates. One That they had shipped a total of 5 units which I think possibly was just the number of people that came forward on the thread talking about their units, and then a few pages later, somebody posted that according to their estimates a total of 29 have shipped (over the period of several days - so not 40 units a day as Metabank had initially estimated). The last thing I read yesterday was that one guy believed (not sure where he is getting his info) that they have now shipped aprox 10% of all units, although I have no way of knowing if that's accurate or not. (sorry I lost URL) Another guy just yesterday... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.msg3095676#msg3095676...Thinks that perhaps this week they finished May 31st orders. Since our first order is from June 2nd, this doesn't sound promising unless they quickly ramp up production volumes, which they say they are doing. I don't think it's public knowledge exactly how many all units add up to, but if the public spreadsheet is any indication, there's at least 419. So with the more optimistic 10% estimate, that's 41 units shipped would still put us well below our initial order (aprox #113 best case scenario); however, there's also rumblings in the forum now that metabank may be delivering at least some of the units out of order, which is concerning (look at green highlighted sections of google docs spreadsheet I posted before), especially since we still haven't gotten any communication from them to come pick up any of our units. fsb4000 also just wrote yesterday "Well finally the first person who received the device and that does not look like a friend MetaBank. This gives hope that soon I'll call"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.msg3095766#msg3095766I'm going to try to arrange for my translator to make another call early next week, and see if we can get some realistic ETAs, even though Metabank has asked people not to call - but what else can they do if they don't offer info up front!? Lastly, sometime this coming week, I will be away on my way to Moscow. My visa has officially been approved, so now just waiting for the courier gods to send me my passport back before I have to leave. Have a great weekend everyone, Luis |
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digitalmagus
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September 11, 2013, 01:59:49 AM |
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Hi guys, We managed to get another call into Metabank yesterday after many hours of re-dialing due to busy signals. They didn't want to talk very long due to the call volume, but here's the latest updates we managed to get from them: 1. By default Metabank is assembling double hashing units. This is to save on assembly time, but obviously cost (to them). If you've ordered a single unit from us (BitCentury) we'll obviously need to get them to provide an individual unit. If for example you ordered multiple units but for a total of an odd number (i.e. 3), expect to receive a double hashing unit + a single unit. Whether this is good news or bad news, depends on one's perspective I suppose. If you have a major objection to getting double units, please email me ASAP ( luis@bitcentury.io) so I can take note and see what I can do about it, but given we're a proxy service, I make no promises - we get, what we get. In short their explanation/justification was that: " We sold GigaHashes, not boxes. So, so long as we deliver the gigahashes sold, it's not our problem if it all fits in 1 box or 3". 2. All units will be tested and assembled by Metabank prior to handing over to BitCentury. This is contrary to what a few select customers were reporting earlier in the 65nm Russian thread, where they picked up all the pieces individually, then got home and realized something didn't work or fit together properly. On this note, we will still test the units ourselves prior to shipping to you - just in case! 3. On that note, if we do encounter faulty parts, Metabank says they will offer replacements, so this should be relatively easy for us to do, given we will be doing the testing in Moscow. 4. The software, contrary to some suggestions in the 65nm Russian thread (one guy reported having to reboot every 2 days), is not buggy, but expect updates for "optimization" - whatever that means. 5. When we asked for ETA of when we can start picking up devices, the guy on the phone said he didn't have the list in front of him, but he said assembly/testing is rapidly ramping up this week and they are still targeting to deliver everything by 15th. This is somewhat noticeable in the Russian thread, as more and more people are claiming they received their units, but actual official numbers are not available it seems. As of the time of this posting, we still have no email from Metabank requesting we come pick up the units. That's it for now. Cheers, Luis |
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fpgaminer
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September 11, 2013, 04:40:47 AM |
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Keep them updates comin'! It helps distract me from watching the Oculus shipping thread(s)... If you have a major objection to getting double units No problems here. Heck, you can round up my order if you're lazy |
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stripykitteh
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September 11, 2013, 05:00:03 AM |
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1. By default Metabank is assembling double hashing units. This is to save on assembly time, but obviously cost (to them). If you've ordered a single unit from us (BitCentury) we'll obviously need to get them to provide an individual unit. If for example you ordered multiple units but for a total of an odd number (i.e. 3), expect to receive a double hashing unit + a single unit. Whether this is good news or bad news, depends on one's perspective I suppose. If you have a major objection to getting double units, please email me ASAP ( luis@bitcentury.io) so I can take note and see what I can do about it, but given we're a proxy service, I make no promises - we get, what we get. In short their explanation/justification was that: " We sold GigaHashes, not boxes. So, so long as we deliver the gigahashes sold, it's not our problem if it all fits in 1 box or 3". Thanks for the update; it sounds like an interesting time for all involved. Not taking a shot at you Luis, and while I actually think compared to other vendors Metabank has done better than average so far I'm nevertheless intrigued that on one hand Metabank are using the justification that they sold GHashes, not boxes, to ship fewer physical units, but at the same time they are apparently underdelivering on the GHashes they promised. Those of us like me who only ordered 1 x 120 GHash unit will be hoping that we're not unfairly punished with late delivery because we didn't order 2 or more units. I know, nothing you can do about it. I am sure you will have enough stories to write a book by the time this is all done and dusted! |
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digitalmagus
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September 11, 2013, 06:57:52 AM |
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Hi guys,
So we made yet another call tonight, as the guy rushed us off yesterday. Here's some additional info:
1. They (Metabank) are having a meeting tonight as other people and other group buys also ordered multiple individual units, so they will have to deal with individual units one way or another. Right now, they are preparing most of the units as either doubles or even triples, but the reality is they have already shipped individual units, as many of the first units were individual units. I have a feeling this has more to do with their costs and time/effort to have to assemble & test more units, than if they combined many of them - but that's just my speculation.
2. When we asked for an ETA, the guy really would not commit to any date at all. All he said is that we (Metabank) really have to stick to the order sequence and if we have any problems and have delays we can not have people show up because we told them to come on X date based on an estimate. When we have units ready, we call the people in the sequence to come pick up the units that have been assembled and tested.
3. We asked if they were still targeting the 15th of Sept to have all units assembled, tested and delivered. He said, yes that is still their target date, but this is only an estimate and goal and cannot be guaranteed in any way. Also given they are already about 1 week late on their "40 boxes per day" initial target, I seriously question all units shipped by the 15th, but we'll certainly be ready if that's the case. The 15th is only a few days away now, so it's not like they are saying "two weeks" ;-)
We also confirmed a bunch of other details, like pickup address, procedures, time of day they are open etc not so much relevant to our customers.
As far as the units not being 120 GH, we totally hear you guys on that, but there isn't a whole lot we can do about that, believe me, at least 75 pages (!) out of the 350+ pages of the Russian 65nm thread are people complaining they didn't get the 120 GH and only 96-105 or so. Hopefully like the avalons and BFL units at some point somebody will figure out how to overclock them and share with everyone.
Regards,
Luis
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eevan
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September 12, 2013, 10:48:29 AM |
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As far as the units not being 120 GH, we totally hear you guys on that, but there isn't a whole lot we can do about that, believe me, at least 75 pages (!) out of the 350+ pages of the Russian 65nm thread are people complaining they didn't get the 120 GH and only 96-105 or so. Hopefully like the avalons and BFL units at some point somebody will figure out how to overclock them and share with everyone.
Regards,
Luis
I would strongly recommend not to rely neither on Sep 15 nor on overclocking. It seems that Metabank will be done with shipping not earlier than the end of September (or even later). This is a total BS about 40 units per day. Or there are some hidden customers noone knows about. The whole Metabank preorder was about 400 pcs of single units. Ten days to ship at specified rate. Why does it take longer then? As for overclocking - Metabank runs its chips at 2.5-2.7 Gh/s. It means that overclocking to 3 Gh/s will raise power consumption might be one and a half or even two times. Besides, each device is "missing" an additional extension card which would drive device up to 120 Gh/s at 2.5Gh/s chip speed and regular power consumption. E.g. Metabank's devices don't really have any hoarded resources to rely on. I've personally made a refund. I recommend that you reestimate profits from October shipped units - will they cover network hashrate growth? I don't really think so. The former Metabank's customer. |
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digitalmagus
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September 13, 2013, 08:16:39 PM
Last edit: September 15, 2013, 04:09:14 AM by digitalmagus |
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Пpивeт из Mocквы! - Today we went to the Metabank offices and met with Timur (owner) , Anatoly (aka. legkodymov - main hardware engineer) and Vasily. - When we asked when our units would be ready for pickup they explained not until late Thursday but more likely Friday, the 20th of Sept, as per one of their original posts. - I asked then, why they kept saying 15th on the phone, and what they meant was they would receive all the PCBs and various other components by the 15th ready for shipping. So obviously a miscommunication/lost-in-translation there somewhere. My apologies for this. - We requested to receive as many units early as we could (before the 20th), but they agreed only on the basis if we would assemble them ourselves. - We agreed to this, as their main obstacle to deliver all units by 20th (assembled) is the man-power required to do so. - By late Monday or Tuesday morning, we will have a fully functional "sample" Metabank box, which we will use as the blueprint to assemble all the other boxes. - To be clear, assembly does not mean soldering components - I made sure we were clear on that. We will just receive motherboards, hashing units with heat sinks already attached, power supplies, raspberry pi's and the exterior cases as well as all necessary cables and screws. - Between Tuesday and Friday we are expecting to receive many of these components, hopefully all of them; however exactly how many we will receive on what day will be further discussed when we meet with Metabank again first thing next week. They needed more time to review their inventory; however in theory if they get all components by 15th, this should not be a problem - but I will provide another update after our next meeting. - They also confirmed that if we found any components that didn't work, we could just come back and exchange it. They are keeping spares for this purpose. - In regards to the issue with the single units, they explained they would be able to give us some (less than 20). This should cover all the customers that ordered only 1 unit, but is not enough for those that bought multiple units through us for their own group buys. - We really pushed to get more single units, but they said that their contract with the external box manufacturer has ended and he is not going to make more. - I conceited that, ok, we (Bitcentury) will use some of the external boxes from the units we bought for ourselves and give those to our customers, but we still need more single motherboards. - They explained that, this too could be problematic because their order of PCBs was completed a long time ago, and they are almost all delivered already. To make a new order would take many more weeks, not to mention cost. They said, possibly some time in October, perhaps they could do it. - So I requested for them to just take some of the double or triple units (which have 2 motherboards) and split them into single units. - They said it's not that simple because overall there are 2 types of motherboards. I'll call them type A and B. Type A is used for the single devices and has 8 slots for hashing boards and an onboard connector for the Raspberry pi. Type B has also 8 slots, although only 7 may be used for hashing boards, and it has no connection for the raspberry pi easily accessible. - To build a double or triple unit, you need a little small IDE-like cable (excuse my ignorance, I will post pictures tomorrow) that interconnects motherboards type A and B together. - A single unit is filled with 5 hash boards on type A motherboard, a double with 10 (using TypeA+B motherboard), and a triple has a total of 15 hashing boards (8+7). - They mentioned that one possible solution is if we split a double into a single, the Type A will accept raspberry Pi, but to do the same for the Type B requires some minor soldering and a small component. I will post some pictures tomorrow to explain this more clearly, and so after the pictures, feel free to also ask any technical questions you may have so I can write them down and ask them for when we meet Metabank again first thing next week. Thanks everyone for your patience and especially your civility, considering all of what goes on around these threads  Have a great weekend, Luis |
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fpgaminer
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September 14, 2013, 04:47:31 AM |
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Great news to hear! I hope you have time to also enjoy the trip; I'll bet Moscow is very beautiful place. Thanks everyone for your patience and especially your civility, considering all of what goes on around these threads Thank you for taking the time to write out these detailed updates. |
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digitalmagus
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September 14, 2013, 08:36:59 PM
Last edit: September 14, 2013, 09:26:52 PM by digitalmagus |
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Hi guys, As promised here's some pictures of the Metabank box we saw when we met them on Friday. We only had about 2 minutes to look at the box, so didn't go into many technical details, but picture number 2 explains a few specifics. I forgot to mention two details yesterday: 1) the plastic box indeed has its various walls glued together and the plastic may not survive international shipping if the box is dropped. The plastic is thin and I can bend it with my fingers a bit. We will of course do our best to pack it well. In image #2 you can see all the silver colored capacitors. Not all hashing units are like this, as seen in previous pictures, Metabank has confirmed that we may get random hashing cards with the bigger capacitors mixed with the silver ones. Image 1 - Overview of box (excuse my fuzzy picture). I believe this is what a double unit would look like with 10 hashing cards.  Image 2 - Main picture explaining details. Behold my awesome Photoshop skills!  Image 3 - showing power connectors of Motherboard Type A and B, as well as Raspberri Pi IDE-like connection.  Image 4 - Zoom in of inter connection of motherboard Type A and B  Image 5 - Picture of the Metabank building. There are many business' in there, and in fact Metabank isn't even a business recognized by the reception desk, they are registered under a different name. You can make out the word "bank" in the blue/white Cyrillic sign outside, but that's actually for a different bank inside the building.  Image 6- Proof that capitalism thrives in Moscow  Although the guy on the left doesn't exactly look like he's "Lovin' It"  |
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