🔥🔥[ANN] Cointed ICO | 180 mio$ revenue | 100k GPUs | 100+ Bitcoin ATMs 🔥🔥

[volpone17]

Well, at least Cointed has more to show than other ICO's where literally is nothing except a nice website and promisses.
I don't care so much about the legal structure ,who owns what and when etc
My personal impression is positive. Let's wait and see

[taxi]

based on what is going on right now with other ICOs: https://cointelegraph.com/news/what-lessons-can-be-learnt-from-tezos-ico-debacle -  not only the one who buys the tokens but also the one who sells tokens should care about the legal structure of an ICO-project. Raising money with false statements also in the ICO world will result in legal proceedings. It is just a matter of time.   

There are evidently so many discrepancies with this CoinTed ICO no one should touch it. A quite evident question: why are these people in Kufstein or Vienna - should not they be in Hongkong??? 

[volpone17]

why should they be in HK ?
do you think the directors of Cayman /Singapore ICO companies are really living there ?
If you read the press about Tezos you will see that they are not all living in Switzerland

[BlueChipper]

why should they be in HK ?
do you think the directors of Cayman /Singapore ICO companies are really living there ?
If you read the press about Tezos you will see that they are not all living in Switzerland

Let's be specific here as this may be relevant legal-wise. The point is that the Cointed people claim that they are in Hongkong being all kind of "Assistant Manager" whilst they actually live and work in Austria and have management positions in Austria. In Tezos' case it was clear that the operating "for-profit" company (and their management) is the US and the fund-raising unit (and its management) is in Switzerland. That's what is said in their white paper.

I mean, what does it tell us if people claim to have other jobs in other countries while they don't? In a public communication to potential investors? Who are the directors then of Cointed GmbH in Austria?

[volpone17]

I mean, what does it tell us if people claim to have other jobs in other countries while they don't? In a public communication to potential investors? Who are the directors then of Cointed GmbH in Austria?
[/quote]

So what ?
They can be directors and shareholders in companies all over the world
Sorry this is not relevant

[BlueChipper]

So what ?
They can be directors and shareholders in companies all over the world
Sorry this is not relevant

Very well, fine for me. Seems you are kind of enthusiastic investor. What we learned in this forums so far

• a key partner is blaming Cointed for serious IP infringements which endangers PayCo and the ATM products
• the director and investor, as well as the commercial register, claim that Crypto Unity OG and the "green mining" business doesn't belong to Cointed today which would endanger the second business segment, i.e. there is obviously no mining business in Cointed currently
• the latest commercial register shows that Cointed GmbH is not owned by Cointed Ltd hence ATM & Exchange businesses seems not to be in Cointed Ltd
• some people doubt the numbers of installed ATMs and who owns them
• the revenue numbers and financials have been doubted. Despite the company's public statements about an *established* business revenues were ZERO last year and no assets were shown in the balance sheet as of end of Des 2016 (see below), hence no *established* business
• all Cointed people are sort of Hongkong refugees and no social media contacts of the people involved are provided at all
• given all the findings it seems that a newly set up Hongkong shell company without assets is the token issuer and the white paper is false.

These are not my accusation but just a wrap-up. Well, to me it seems at least worthwhile to give it a second thought. Would you really give those people USD 120M to do exactly expand what? And the responsible people move to Hongkong!

As I said, very well. No risk, no fun, right?

[sideliner]

I just had to make an account for this.

@BlueChipper Why are you trying to come up with reasons so hard that this ICO is a scam? If you were objective, then you would at least mention that the said GmbH was only founded on 24.11.2016 according to https://www.firmenabc.at/cointed-gmbh_Nqyy#crefo this source. I guess this means the company was active for only one month by the time they had to do their balance.

I am really starting to wonder what your motivation is. At first I thought, great a guy that warned of a scam ICO, but then I did my research, those guys have achieved much more than many of other ICOs already, something seems strange here. I guess they inflated their numbers, but I will be watching what the statement from Deloitte will say. Until then there is not much to do I guess.

[cointed_official]

based on what is going on right now with other ICOs: https://cointelegraph.com/news/what-lessons-can-be-learnt-from-tezos-ico-debacle -  not only the one who buys the tokens but also the one who sells tokens should care about the legal structure of an ICO-project. Raising money with false statements also in the ICO world will result in legal proceedings. It is just a matter of time.  

There are evidently so many discrepancies with this CoinTed ICO no one should touch it. A quite evident question: why are these people in Kufstein or Vienna - should not they be in Hongkong???  

Greetings taxi,

Cointed offers a number of blockchain-based products & services and is the only allround service provider in the industry. The areas we are active in are: (mainly GPU) Mining, a Crypto Exchange, Mulit-Cryptocurrency ATMs (as the biggest Crypto ATM provider in Europe) and a Payment System for crypto-payment processing. We were able to achieve all this with absolutely 0 outside funding.

Our goal is to now expand to the global market with those products. When you take a look at the Cointed Whitepaper on page 38, you will see that we are currently in the process of expanding throughout Europe and that Asia is our immediate next goal after that. We are already in talks with a number of potential partners throughout South East Asia, which we mainly met by regularly attending blockchain-focused events in this area. Another event, the Black Arrow Conference in Bali/Indonesia is just coming up, which we are really excited for!

We place huge focus on the South East Asian market, because it seems obvious to us that cryptocurrencies are ideal for countries where the financial infrastructure is not yet fully developed. In addition, there are very few cryptocurrency-focused companies in South East Asia as of now.

Logistically, it is just not possible to enter the Asian market from Austria (or anywhere in Europe for that matter). After much consideration with our financial advisor Deloitte, we decided that the base of our operation should be moved to Hong Kong. Thus, the Cointed Ltd was founded, where we will now move our attention to more and more over time.

I hope this addresses the matter and are happy to answer any further questions that may come up!

[agng27]

project about the Crypto and real-world liaison of many Ico like this that can be a big success and I'm sure Ico will also be a great success Ico hopefully run smoothly and soon sold all the coins,,,how to see sale progress dev,,i have visit http://cointedtoken.com/ but not found thanks

[taxi]

I just had to make an account for this.

@BlueChipper Why are you trying to come up with reasons so hard that this ICO is a scam? If you were objective, then you would at least mention that the said GmbH was only founded on 24.11.2016 according to https://www.firmenabc.at/cointed-gmbh_Nqyy#crefo this source. I guess this means the company was active for only one month by the time they had to do their balance.

I am really starting to wonder what your motivation is. At first I thought, great a guy that warned of a scam ICO, but then I did my research, those guys have achieved much more than many of other ICOs already, something seems strange here. I guess they inflated their numbers, but I will be watching what the statement from Deloitte will say. Until then there is not much to do I guess.

Thanks to all of you to participate in this quite good discussion and thanks to Cointed to be so patient to answer all our questions as I am really eager to participate in this ICO:  

I have a few more questions for you: According to the Article shown on NewsBTC http://www.newsbtc.com/2017/10/19/cointed-token-ico-starts-24-hours/ CoinTed already showed impressive sales for  2015 (!) amounting to 7 Mio USD and a profit of 170.000k. I did a quick search on this:  On Bitcointalk as of 16th February 2016 you talked about having sold 60 BTC so far (via LocalBitcoins).https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1351953.0. As the average price for a BTC end of 2015 and beginning 2016 was quite low (300 – 500 USD) compared to nowadays figure, pls explain how you came finally up with sales of 7 Mio USD. !!In addition you only set up CoinTed OG as of 10.12. 2015 (what is in line with your statement in the Bitcointalk Forum back then). So again how does this fit with 7 MIo USD sales?
  
For 2016 you claim impressive sales of 30 Million USD and a profit of 600k. Again I tried to do a quick check but eventually CoinTed OG was deleted (!) as of 15.12. 2016 from the official books: the new Company CoinTed GmbH which is in existence since 24. 11 2016 does not show any sales between end of November 2016 and 31/12/2016 at all. So as of 16th February you just spoke about sales of 60 BTC and in December you made 0 sales: how did you make 30 Mio USD sales<?


Regarding my question about your physical presence in Hongkong: For Austrian legal and tax purposes only the economic substance of a legal structure is valid. So if you people being the board of management of the Cointed Limited are sitting in Vienna or Kufstein, Cointed Limited will be regarded as Austrian place of economic activity and you will be treated as an Austrian entity (but I am sure Deloitte will tell you all these things).

I am sure that Deloitte´s statement on your figures for 2015 and 2016 will bring assurance about your press releases. I can not imagine that you lied about your financial results in luring people to participate in your ICO. By the way you also could publish the financial statements of CoinTed OG for 2016 as well as your tax filings for 2016.

[volpone17]

So what ?
They can be directors and shareholders in companies all over the world
Sorry this is not relevant

Very well, fine for me. Seems you are kind of enthusiastic investor. What we learned in this forums so far

• a key partner is blaming Cointed for serious IP infringements which endangers PayCo and the ATM products
• the director and investor, as well as the commercial register, claim that Crypto Unity OG and the "green mining" business doesn't belong to Cointed today which would endanger the second business segment, i.e. there is obviously no mining business in Cointed currently
• the latest commercial register shows that Cointed GmbH is not owned by Cointed Ltd hence ATM & Exchange businesses seems not to be in Cointed Ltd
• some people doubt the numbers of installed ATMs and who owns them
• the revenue numbers and financials have been doubted. Despite the company's public statements about an *established* business revenues were ZERO last year and no assets were shown in the balance sheet as of end of Des 2016 (see below), hence no *established* business
• all Cointed people are sort of Hongkong refugees and no social media contacts of the people involved are provided at all
• given all the findings it seems that a newly set up Hongkong shell company without assets is the token issuer and the white paper is false.

These are not my accusation but just a wrap-up. Well, to me it seems at least worthwhile to give it a second thought. Would you really give those people USD 120M to do exactly expand what? And the responsible people move to Hongkong!

As I said, very well. No risk, no fun, right?
http://bitrush-shareholders.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Cointed-Balance-Sheet-2016.png

BlueChipper
this is the so called Eröffnungsbilanz which of course can not show much as the Biz just started. I'm sure you know this . My impression is that your motivation behind your postings is not business related but more to harm the people behind Cointed.
Correct me if I'm wrong .
As you seem to be a good investigator in ICO's please provide me with some explanation about the business structure of an other Austrian ICO www.hydrominer.org
according to their Imprint https://www.hydrominer.org/imprint/  the company is not even yet registered , has no VAT nr , how about the balance sheet ?
Please  help me to find the balance sheet and business structure of the Singapore based TenX as well .

[BlueChipper]

@BlueChipper Why are you trying to come up with reasons so hard that this ICO is a scam? If you were objective, then you would at least mention that the said GmbH was only founded on 24.11.2016 according to https://www.firmenabc.at/cointed-gmbh_Nqyy#crefo this source. I guess this means the company was active for only one month by the time they had to do their balance.

I am a member of some blockchains groups that deal with "ICO Ethics" and "ICO Regulation" and we work hard to make our industry clean. For a simple reason - we want it work and we want the state and the regulators to stay out. But if scams and frauds are happening regulators and prosecutors have a very good reason to step in, don't they? Let's keep our environment clean and honest please and show no mercy with scammers and fraudsters.

I have not made any accusation myself. Many others have done that in inside and outside this forum. I tried to summarize, structure and present and I focused on facts - no rumours or emotions. From the insider information, I have got from people around Cointed, I have to doubt that they are a legitimate project or even an attractive one. From what I learned from my informants/clients you may expect some litigations around Cointed and maybe even criminal charges because of their false public information. Doesn't sound very attractive to me.

[BlueChipper]

BlueChipper
this is the so called Eröffnungsbilanz which of course can not show much as the Biz just started. I'm sure you know this . My impression is that your motivation behind your postings is not business related but more to harm the people behind Cointed.
Correct me if I'm wrong .

Unfortunately, you are wrong. I am not the CPA (but we have mandated one to take a look into the matter to help our client in this case) but its my understanding that if Cointed OG would have been the predecessor company (the established business that Cointed claims to run since 2014) and would have been merged into Cointed GmbH (which is the way it works usually) this would be shown in the books, even in an "Eröffnungsbilanz" but the filed balance sheet isn't an "Eröffnungsbilanz" anyway.

Please read the post by @taxi. Seems strange that Cointed OG has been deleted and hence the business ceased officially. Where have all the customers, revenues, assets gone then? Why aren't they shown in the balance sheets? If they have gone elsewhere then Cointed has no right to claim to have an *established" business.

And still, the big question on the Crypto Unity OG remains open yet. Where are all the assets and the business that's claimed to be in Cointed Ltd? Off-Balance, Off-Shore? The public information provided by Cointed Ltd (?) claims to have all assets though!

As I said, we will post a detailed analysis on Cointed ICO n LinkedIn soon to have an open, fair and professional discussion. Please join us then.

[volpone17]

ok
what about hydrominer? they don't even have a registration yet
Is this not alarming ?

You say:
I am a member of some blockchains groups that deal with "ICO Ethics" and "ICO Regulation" and we work hard to make our industry clean. For a simple reason - we want it work and we want the state and the regulators to stay out. But if scams and frauds are happening regulators and prosecutors have a very good reason to step in, don't they? Let's keep our environment clean and honest please and show no mercy with scammers and fraudsters.

So what is the difference between hydrominer and cointed in your uunderstanding?

[taxi]

Regarding the difference between hydrominer and cointed in your uunderstanding?

So i also did my check on hydrominer! Actually i also think that it is quite risky for the management of Hydrominer GmbH to issue Coins as long as the GmbH is not yet registered with the Austrian Commercial Court. But the risk is quite limited to any losses incurred between the day of the establishment of the company contract until the registration day (VORGESELLSCHAFT), afterwards the GMBH will be liable for the Coins issued. Hydrominer runs a voucher model: quite simple! you can exchange mining power in exchange for the vouchers. The people behind Hydrominer never issued any statements on big sales number achieved in 2015 and 2016 and they never claimed to move to Hongkong! resp. to issue the coins by using an asian company. When Hydrominer fails everyone knows that there is an Austrian company which can be sued! Quite simple. to sue an Asian company is much more difficult and the reason that Cointed ltd. moves to Asia in order to work the Asian market is not valid. Groups usually set up subsidiaries but do not move their headquarter to the Asian market. 

Regarding the token model:  hydrominer just issues voucher which can only be exchanged against mining power. The only problem which could result in their token being qualified as e-cash and resulting in big troubles with the FMA is their promise to get a listing on cryptocurrency exchanges (what will anyway probably never happen), but as long as the vouchers can not be used to buy services or goods from others the risk is limited. 

CoinTed describes in its white paper and in its public announcements that its coins can be used in a widely manner: other merchants and so on. So there is a very high risk to be qualified as e-cash and this means more than big troubles with a lot of different financial regulatory authorities in each country where such merchants will be located.

Both tokens/coins issued will not empower a decentralized network to be established.

[rolanleno]

Despite my account status, I am not a newbie in the crypto scene but I usually read a lot but comment rarely. I do have a bigger mining farm and therefore know the pains one gets of starting one. So I have respect for anybody who undertakes such a big project.

I am kind of with ElioVP

Looking over the whitepaper they at least want to do something different which would help the community in the long run. (putting ATM’s into the Market will help the acceptance of
cryptocurrencies into mainstream)

And yes they are a new company in a new market where most people do not have any real life experience but that doesn’t mean they cannot get there and from what I see they
make big steps in the right direction.

Also from what I saw they do actually own hardware (assets) unlike other ICO’s which really only exist on paper.

I also know that they are running a optimized and customized OS as well as that they are having custom bios for their cards, I know because I know the person who wrote it 😉

Furthermore, their concept of mining contracts where a miner at least owns his/her machine seems to be a lot better than spending the same amount on money on a mining contract which gives only half the Hashing power without owning the hardware.

Regarding the comment about the location looks like a storage place, most of us started like this, again respect for coming up with ingenuity to transform this place into a farm and therefore saving your customers quiet a lot of money.

I for sure are watching this ICO, As ElioVP I am not a believer of ICO’s which only exist on papers, but this one has as least a feasible concept and assets.

Cheers!

[BlueChipper]

I for sure are watching this ICO, As ElioVP I am not a believer of ICO’s which only exist on papers, but this one has as least a feasible concept and assets.
Cheers!

I fully agree with you. Most ICOs don't have any assets and are more or less scams. Unfortunately, Cointed Ltd obviously also owns nothing. It seems that they neither have mining servers nor shares nor all IP rights necessary to run the business as communicated. Cointed Ltd obviously neither owns Cointed GmbH nor the mining company Crypto Unity OG. Hence, Cointed Ltd as the token issuer and ICO promoter seems to be another ICO with no assets.

[el_rlee]

I don´t know if I do this technically right - If not, please correct me. If I sort the incoming transactions to their contract address posted on github 0x230c2a140e758087f7107dd31943c5c03b819e55 there should have already been like ~$700k collected?

What I find is a bit strange are the big incoming transactions... who the hell would invest $200k worth of ether on this?

[BlueChipper]

It pretty much looks as if those guys are buying their own ICO. This is what our deep analysis indicates!

[sideliner]

It pretty much looks as if those guys are buying their own ICO. This is what our deep analysis has indicated!

Interesting, can you share your deep analysis please?