[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[Bonez0r]

Regarding this new "maker/taker" model, aren't those who provide the liquidity (i.e. those whose orders end up on the books) supposed to get a portion of the fee paid by those who take from the book?  This is the first time I've seen a "maker/taker" model described as both parties pay a fee with one just paying a lower fee.  This would seem to benefit Bitfinex a lot more than it would benefit traders, and I think it's going to end up creating a price divergence on this platform from other exchanges.  

A true maker/taker model (I think, and I'm no expert) should look like this:

Market makers receive 1/2 the fee paid by maker takers.
Market takers pay .3% fee (so Bitfinex receives .15%, and the market maker receives .15%).

This is how you "incentivize" being a market maker.  

this!

Thought about something similar but your idea seems to be an even better approach.
That fee structure would be a really incentive for being a market maker.

What´s your opinion Rapha/Giancarlo ?

I'm not a trader, so i might be wrong, but doesn't the new fee structure already incentivize being a market maker? A market maker only pays half the fee (or less, if you trade a lot) compared to a market taker, that looks like a big incentive to me.

mediocre incentive -> pay less fees then a market taker

but now think about the situation where some part of the fees taken from the market takers doesn´t disappear in bitfinex pockets but instead are distributed among the market makers.

= very huge incentive

Oh yes, i believe you, that would be a huge incentive for market makers. But for your proposal to happen, and Bitfinex to still earn the same amount of money, they'd probably have to increase the fee for market takers to 0.3% or even higher. And that creates another problem. Why on Earth would anyone want to be a market taker if you pay that high a fee? Your proposal for a high market maker incentive means low market taker incentive. Yet the market needs market takers or there are no trades at all. But as i said i'm not a trader so correct me if i'm wrong.

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[Sukrim]

errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
is anyone else hving problems.. having to put in their 2FA multiple times.. till it works? -_-

Nope, just sync the time on your mobile phone again, this is one of the most common solutions in that regard.

[GurungBoi]

errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
is anyone else hving problems.. having to put in their 2FA multiple times.. till it works? -_-

Nope, just sync the time on your mobile phone again, this is one of the most common solutions in that regard.

cool i'll try that.

[richmke]

In Bitfinex's latest statement, they claim their wire transfer withdrawal is the cheapest and fastest in the industry; even more so than Bitstamp. Is this true?

Depends. Coinbase charges a 1% fee to convert your BTC to USD, and then ACH the proceeds to your US Bank Account.

Bitfinex has a minimum $20 fee, and you have a .1 or .2% fee to trade BTC into USD.

So, for $2,000 or less, Coinbase is cheap and fast. It is also USA based and regulated, which is a plus in my book.

[urwhatuknow]

Regarding this new "maker/taker" model, aren't those who provide the liquidity (i.e. those whose orders end up on the books) supposed to get a portion of the fee paid by those who take from the book?  This is the first time I've seen a "maker/taker" model described as both parties pay a fee with one just paying a lower fee.  This would seem to benefit Bitfinex a lot more than it would benefit traders, and I think it's going to end up creating a price divergence on this platform from other exchanges.  

A true maker/taker model (I think, and I'm no expert) should look like this:

Market makers receive 1/2 the fee paid by maker takers.
Market takers pay .3% fee (so Bitfinex receives .15%, and the market maker receives .15%).

This is how you "incentivize" being a market maker.  

this!

Thought about something similar but your idea seems to be an even better approach.
That fee structure would be a really incentive for being a market maker.

What´s your opinion Rapha/Giancarlo ?

I'm not a trader, so i might be wrong, but doesn't the new fee structure already incentivize being a market maker? A market maker only pays half the fee (or less, if you trade a lot) compared to a market taker, that looks like a big incentive to me.

mediocre incentive -> pay less fees then a market taker

but now think about the situation where some part of the fees taken from the market takers doesn´t disappear in bitfinex pockets but instead are distributed among the market makers.

= very huge incentive

Oh yes, i believe you, that would be a huge incentive for market makers. But for your proposal to happen, and Bitfinex to still earn the same amount of money, they'd probably have to increase the fee for market takers to 0.3% or even higher. And that creates another problem. Why on Earth would anyone want to be a market taker if you pay that high a fee? Your proposal for a high market maker incentive means low market taker incentive. Yet the market needs market takers or there are no trades at all. But as i said i'm not a trader so correct me if i'm wrong.

you might not be a trader but you have some brains.

Nice to know that, I'll keep you in mind in case I want to share a beer one of those days...


Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[richardweiming]

Your wire is ready to go out but we still require a few more missing document(s) (see at the bottom of this mail) to avoid delays.

As we are implementing additional KYC / AML policy requirements based on requirements in Hong Kong, we also reviewed all the past data provided before by yourself.  Unfortunately the data provided by you in the past is not sufficient anymore based on the updated requirements we need to follow.

Therefore in order to avoid any delay in processing your payment(s) that are pending, can you please fill out the updated KYC form. 

Please also ensure that the additional documents are clearly scanned (no photo's by mobile phone):

The updated requirement is:

A – 2 X photo ID (passport and national ID card copy)
B - recent electrical bill / property tax / telephone (no other type accepted)
C - copy of a bank statement / bank account in your name - should be the same account from which you receive / send funds
D - occupation detail and source of income explained on the form

We look forward to continue to support the business with you but we also have to ensure our documentation is in accordance with regulation, I trust you understand this being a professional.

Below are the documents (missing details) you still need to provide in addition to the ones you sent before.

Thanks and best regards,
Jean


My account is a verified account. They asked for additional documents for my withdraw this time. It is strict. I can apply them,but it makes me feel warning. Do they do this to slower payment? MTGOX also did this, slow and complex AML procedure.
Did you guys met it? How you think about it?
Not every one have second ID. Not every one have paper bankstatement. Not every one have  electrical bill / property tax / telephone (no other type accepted). They will delay your withdraw until you supply them. It is rouge.

[urwhatuknow]

Your wire is ready to go out but we still require a few more missing document(s) (see at the bottom of this mail) to avoid delays.

As we are implementing additional KYC / AML policy requirements based on requirements in Hong Kong, we also reviewed all the past data provided before by yourself.  Unfortunately the data provided by you in the past is not sufficient anymore based on the updated requirements we need to follow.

Therefore in order to avoid any delay in processing your payment(s) that are pending, can you please fill out the updated KYC form.  

Please also ensure that the additional documents are clearly scanned (no photo's by mobile phone):

The updated requirement is:

A – 2 X photo ID (passport and national ID card copy)
B - recent electrical bill / property tax / telephone (no other type accepted)
C - copy of a bank statement / bank account in your name - should be the same account from which you receive / send funds
D - occupation detail and source of income explained on the form

We look forward to continue to support the business with you but we also have to ensure our documentation is in accordance with regulation, I trust you understand this being a professional.

Below are the documents (missing details) you still need to provide in addition to the ones you sent before.

Thanks and best regards,
Jean


My account is a verified account. They asked for additional documents for my withdraw this time. It is strict. I can apply them,but it makes me feel warning. Do they do this to slower payment? MTGOX also did this, slow and complex AML procedure.
Did you guys met it? How you think about it?
Not every one have second ID. Not every one have paper bankstatement. Not every one have  electrical bill / property tax / telephone (no other type accepted). They will delay your withdraw until you supply them. It is rouge.

Slow and complex AML/KYC procedures?
What are you talking about?
You submitted the documents required 2 hours ago and your wire will go out tomorrow.

You should instead show some respect for people trying to protect your money by complying with current regulations

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[Ente]

In light of the recent MtGox implosion, where all customers data, including KYC documents, were leaked:
What happens with the provided documents?

a) they are deleted after being checked
b) kept encrypted, offline, in a vault
c) kept online, unencrypted, feel free to help yourself

Seriously though, I don't want anyone to know my full name, address and Bitcoin holding. Even with just one bitcoin, who knows where the exchange rate is in five years, and what gang will mug me for it then.

Ente

[smilence]

Anyone has deposit problem?

I sent fund 6 days ago, not credited ..

also I tried to contact support team via email and twitter , No one reply.

 

[urwhatuknow]

Anyone has deposit problem?

I sent fund 6 days ago, not credited ..

also I tried to contact support team via email and twitter , No one reply.

 

PM your username to me and I'll look into that.
You can also send a message to compliance@bitfinex.com

Thanks

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[urwhatuknow]

The updated requirement is:

A – 2 X photo ID (passport and national ID card copy)
B - recent electrical bill / property tax / telephone (no other type accepted)
C - copy of a bank statement / bank account in your name - should be the same account from which you receive / send funds
D - occupation detail and source of income explained on the form

This is completely unacceptable. Looks like I'll be buying BTC or LTC and transferring out of Bitfinex soon, then.

I only have 1 ID (seriously) since I haven't bothered to renew my passport after it expired, so I can't do A.

It's 2014 not 1994 so my bank doesn't send me paper statements at all so I can't do C.

Also, D seems to sort under "none of their business", there is no reason they need to know what other income I have for me to withdraw what I've made from trading and lending at Bitfinex.

Bitfinex is with that essentially saying that they've now closed fiat withdraws.

Guess I'll have to change my signature too and update it to say "screwed exchange that denies fiat withdraws to most people".

Or maybe I'll decide to apply for a passport and look for an outdated bank that operates like it's the 1980s but I doubt that. It seems like a bit much just to use an exchange who've now completely submitted to the fascist world order.

Let me point out a few simple concepts here:

1) We don't observe AML/KYC rules  because we like to give you a hard time, we do it because we don't want to be shut down by local authorities and have all your money confiscated ( Liberty Reserve anyone?)
2) We just require extra documents to accounts that show abnormal patterns of withdrawals or any strange behavior.
3) Less than one month ago MtGox exploded and this drew massive attention to every trading platform. Bitfinex is now the second platform in the world in the BTC/USD pair, so it's perfectly normal for us to try to be scrupulous in our procedures.
4) If you have no passport, a photo ID and a driving license will do.
5) We accept bank statements in electronic format (PDF)
6) The same people complaining now were also complaining back in june 2013 when we pulled out of MtGox.
They called me paranoid, chicken, you name it. All this people didn't show up when Gox collapsed to just say thank you. Not one word, nothing, zero.

Time will tell who's is right between who is trying to comply with the rules and who is just ranting about a world that doesn't exist yet.
Platforms are centralized entities and must comply with the rules.
Anybody not getting this should seek for a better place to trade (and eventually end up losing all of his coins).

Yes, I wrote it again. And the more I write it the more I mean it.

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[urwhatuknow]

In light of the recent MtGox implosion, where all customers data, including KYC documents, were leaked:
What happens with the provided documents?

a) they are deleted after being checked
b) kept encrypted, offline, in a vault
c) kept online, unencrypted, feel free to help yourself

Seriously though, I don't want anyone to know my full name, address and Bitcoin holding. Even with just one bitcoin, who knows where the exchange rate is in five years, and what gang will mug me for it then.

Ente

It's b).
By the way, you are not even verified, so what are you worrying about?

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[urwhatuknow]

Anyone has deposit problem?

I sent fund 6 days ago, not credited ..

also I tried to contact support team via email and twitter , No one reply.

 

1) you verified as an individual.
2) you sent money with a company of which we have no information, nothing

What is not clear with the fact that the money wasn't credited?
Why do you think we verify customers?

Please send the required documents to compliance@bitfinex.com and we'll get your company verified (provided it's your company, otherwise we'll send the funds back).

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[Ente]

In light of the recent MtGox implosion, where all customers data, including KYC documents, were leaked:
What happens with the provided documents?

a) they are deleted after being checked
b) kept encrypted, offline, in a vault
c) kept online, unencrypted, feel free to help yourself

Seriously though, I don't want anyone to know my full name, address and Bitcoin holding. Even with just one bitcoin, who knows where the exchange rate is in five years, and what gang will mug me for it then.

Ente

It's b).
By the way, you are not even verified, so what are you worrying about?

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

True, I'm not verified.
The recent events at MtGox make me even more cautionous than before.
No, I wasn't verified on MtGox neither.

Don't get me wrong, I trust BitFinex a lot. Still, losing scans of my ID and all relevant personal data is nothing short of a disaster. I can't change my name, just like I would change a stolen password.
Guess what, I will not give my government my fingerprints for a new ID. I have a few years left on my current one, fortunately. Changing one's fingerprints is even more complicated than changing ones name ;-)

Ah, I'm going OT here.

On topic:
It's precisely things like that you, BitFinex, left MtGox months ago. You probably left out on some fees there, deeming the security of customers' money more important. Thats why I trust you guys, and don't even have accounts at other exchanges.

Ente

[richmke]

Ente: If you don't want to get verified, then don't use Bitfinex to withdraw USD. Use whatever means you are comfortable with to convert your BTC/LTC to fiat.

[nrd525]

In Bitfinex's latest statement, they claim their wire transfer withdrawal is the cheapest and fastest in the industry; even more so than Bitstamp. Is this true?

Depends. Coinbase charges a 1% fee to convert your BTC to USD, and then ACH the proceeds to your US Bank Account.

Bitfinex has a minimum $20 fee, and you have a .1 or .2% fee to trade BTC into USD.

So, for $2,000 or less, Coinbase is cheap and fast. It is also USA based and regulated, which is a plus in my book.

For small amounts, you can also use Coinbase to get BTC and then transfer it to Bitfinex.  I'm doing this currently, but unfortunately the price dropped $20 on me (as Coinbase takes 4 days to deliver the BTC).

[Indamuck]

errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
is anyone else hving problems.. having to put in their 2FA multiple times.. till it works? -_-

Nope, just sync the time on your mobile phone again, this is one of the most common solutions in that regard.

cool i'll try that.

If you ever have any problem signing in, or anything looks odd during the sign-in process, pause and make sure you are signing in to the 'bitfinex dot com' website and not one of the 'biz' or 'org' sites that are targeting users.

[Indamuck]

Oh yes, i believe you, that would be a huge incentive for market makers. But for your proposal to happen ...

you might not be a trader but you have some brains.

Nice to know that, I'll keep you in mind in case I want to share a beer one of those days...


Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

Giancarlo: CFO and Arbiter of Brains

Something like over 98% of traders lose money ... Oops, that's inconvenient. Nevermind ... lol.

[nrd525]

A US passport is pretty pricey if you don't need it for travel. Either $100 or $125 last time I got one.

[medicine]

A US passport is pretty pricey if you don't need it for travel. Either $100 or $125 last time I got one.

you must understand that there are certain things in this world that require government issued IDs. And trading thousands of dollars online is one of them like it or not.  You can choose to jump through hoops and play or not.  Pretty much impossible to change this requirement as a single person.