[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[bjornw]

Orderbook page for TH1 on bfxdata.com:

http://bfxdata.com/orderbooks/th1btc.php

Swaps pages / Today Page entries are next

regards Bjorn

[gog1]

For TH1, when it's listed at a price of 2BTC - are you really then just buying a mining bond (instead of 'perpetual', a fix term - 3 month) with a hashing power of 1TH for 2 BTC?

[nrd525]

So they've been ignoring my very simple and twice repeated request to stop centering numbers (https://www.bitfinex.com/credit - number of swap contracts) and to properly left-align them so they can be readable, and instead are coming up with crazy new features?

Priorities...

[gog1]

So they've been ignoring my very simple and twice repeated request to stop centering numbers (https://www.bitfinex.com/credit - number of swap contracts) and to properly left-align them so they can be readable, and instead are coming up with crazy new features?

Priorities...

centering numbers don't make people money (both the platform and the traders)

[bbbbbb2014]

I'm thinking about withdrawing my USD. Interest rates, while still quite high in comparison to the expected return for an stock market investment, aren't high enough when considering the risk of losing the money somehow.

I also wonder why the interest rate volatility has been so low, we have been at nearly 0.04% daily for many days so far.

I think USD swap interest rates are on a lower edge. Not something spectacular, but still OK. Anything bellow 0.04% is a signal to back off, for sure.

=b

[nrd525]

I'm confused about what happens to dividends when you short.

It seems to me that if you borrow a stock or contract, that you then receive the dividend and have to hand it over to the person you are borrowing from.  It this correct?

For the TH1 contract, I'm wondering if the cost of shorting it is just 1) the swap rate or 2) the swap rate plus a dividend.

[gog1]

shorts pay the dividend, look at the announcement page.  you not only pay the dividend plus the interest!  yike.

[oyvinds]

shorts pay the dividend, look at the announcement page.  you not only pay the dividend plus the interest!  yike.

This is something I do not understand at all. If these are in fact mining contracts on a pool then this pool pays the dividend in the form of BTC. Why then would shorts also have to pay the dividend, doesn't that create a situation where there is 2x dividend?

[nrd525]

Looks like someone is demanding TH1 swap at 1%/day and getting it.

[oyvinds]

Looks like someone is demanding TH1 swap at 1%/day and getting it.

http://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurrency/?sha256hr=1000.00

IF these numbers are anywhere near accurate then it appears that at CURRENT difficulty you need about 60 days to make 1 BTC with 1 TH/s, so 3 months would give about 1.5 BTC - and the market maker at BFX is selling these for 2 BTC right now.

I guess if you expect the price to go down more than 1%/day then why not. These contracts are clearly overpriced right now. What is a bit scary here is where do these TH on the askside come from? Apparently a pool market maker. a) why would they sell their TH instead of mining? because they expect higher profit from it. b) do they have to sell if they see that there's a lot of shorts? with BTC you can get outside BTC in, if you have a mining rig then there is still no way to "deposit" TH into BFX right so the supply side is basically in the hands of 1 party. What is introduced to the market can be traded around but there is 1 party controlling the supply.

I also have a hard time understanding why a short would have to pay dividends, if there is actual TH behind this then that dividend should come from the pool and the borrower only pays interest.

If these were naked shorts of TH then there would be no pool to create dividend and the shorts would have to pay that dividend since they sold a contract with dividend of a TH. Shorts would NOT have to pay interest in this case since they would not be borrowing anything.

As I understand the announcement you pay interest & dividend if you short TH and that makes no sense to me.

[nrd525]

It'd be nice if they had a fixed time for the dividend payment as this is going to have a large impact on price. 

[nrd525]

"As I understand the announcement you pay interest & dividend if you short TH and that makes no sense to me."

It doesn't totally make sense to me either.  But I think that at the end of each day when the dividend is paid the price should fall by the amount of the dividend - so as a shorter you will see that as a profit on your position.

[gog1]

"As I understand the announcement you pay interest & dividend if you short TH and that makes no sense to me."

It doesn't totally make sense to me either.  But I think that at the end of each day when the dividend is paid the price should fall by the amount of the dividend - so as a shorter you will see that as a profit on your position.

well, in the real world, for high demand (for shorting) stock - you have to pay a "fee" to borrow the stock to short, you can use the money you get from the shorts to buy t-bill and get some yield.

the unfortunate thing here is that the margin trading is more like CFD, you short the TH1, you don't get 2 BTC in your account up front, and you have to keep paying the dividend out of your own pocket - you only get the difference when you settle

[aonori]

I wanna short TH1, but can't receive swap and shown error message "Invalid offer: not enough margin balance".
I have some BTC on my deposit wallet.
What type of currency need for shot TH1? USD?

[gog1]

I wanna short TH1, but can't receive swap and shown error message "Invalid offer: not enough margin balance".
I have some BTC on my deposit wallet.
What type of currency need for shot TH1? USD?

move them to your trading wallet

[DoubleSwapper]

I've encountered yet another bug in the BFX swap system regarding wrong durations. A swap in my "provided list" has just popped up showing 27 days when this was never issued by me and wasn't in the book just 5 hours ago while showing it has been taken nearly 2 days ago. I've written to the BFX support. No idea what is happening at the moment but they should better get their lending system cleaned up. There are quite a few bugs popping up at the moment.

[DebitMe]

I am still trying to figure out how the swaps work from the lending side, but I found something I thought was a little odd.  I have a swap lent for 30 days, and it has been lent fully for the last 3 days.  The last 2 days I received the exact same amount of interest deposited into my account, but today, it was less.  Shouldn't the same amount be earned in interest each day, given that it was lent out all day, and for the same interest rate?

Just to be 100% sure: is it FRR (variable, flash-rate) or fixed-rate swap?

Ente

I think it was fixed rate, I typed in the box, 30 days, 0.0165% interest rate, 1 btc

Follow up, received the interest to my account for the following day (4th day of loan) and it was back to what the first 2 days had been.  So that makes 3 days with the same interest amount and 1 day with a different amount.  Something isn't right, unless there is something I am not thinking of that would cause 1 day to have a lower amount of interest paid?

[noggin-scratcher]

I also have a hard time understanding why a short would have to pay dividends, if there is actual TH behind this then that dividend should come from the pool and the borrower only pays interest.

If you go short, you borrow someone's share(s) and sell them, in the hope of buying them back later for less, so the pool is paying the dividend for that share to whoever bought it from you. The swap recipient would be paying to replace the income the provider would have had from their share if it hadn't been sold, so that they're not left disadvantaged by the arrangement.

[nrd525]

What time is the TH1 dividend payment?  And how much was the first one?

[Indamuck]

I've encountered yet another bug in the BFX swap system regarding wrong durations. A swap in my "provided list" has just popped up showing 27 days when this was never issued by me and wasn't in the book just 5 hours ago while showing it has been taken nearly 2 days ago. I've written to the BFX support. No idea what is happening at the moment but they should better get their lending system cleaned up. There are quite a few bugs popping up at the moment.

I think there is a glitch as I've found the same. There is a 'swap provided' in my account for BTC at the FRR rate/30-days issued just a couple hours ago ... I never set at FRR and all my BTC was lent yesterday for only 4-5 days. I would never lend for 30 days. This is a serious glitch ... now my BTC is tied up for 30 days ?!?