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Author Topic: Stock bitcoins and stop selling. Let price go above 200$  (Read 3366 times)
linuxer
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June 13, 2013, 11:16:53 AM
 #21

Thats just what i thought - why can't just everyone stop selling under 680 $ :-)

Funny thing is: Buyers could do the same and just stop buying above 30$. And then?

Price will stay high and buyer will buy bitcoins at high, if they need bitcoins.
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June 13, 2013, 11:18:17 AM
 #22

you can't manipulate the "market".

if you can, this is not where I would "invest" my money.

Is it joke of the day?

Peoples are doing it from ages dude, <-i'm not talking about just bitcoins.
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June 13, 2013, 11:20:40 AM
 #23

Thats just what i thought - why can't just everyone stop selling under 680 $ :-)

Funny thing is: Buyers could do the same and just stop buying above 30$. And then?

Price will stay high and buyer will buy bitcoins at high, if they need bitcoins.

LOL!

Why not?

Price will stay low and seller will sell bitcoins at low, if they need moniez.

And believe me there are way more desperate miners out there that need to pay their bills with BTCs as there are buyers who are in a desperate need of BTCs.

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June 13, 2013, 11:28:49 AM
 #24

Thats just what i thought - why can't just everyone stop selling under 680 $ :-)

Funny thing is: Buyers could do the same and just stop buying above 30$. And then?

Price will stay high and buyer will buy bitcoins at high, if they need bitcoins.

LOL!

Why not?

Price will stay low and seller will sell bitcoins at low, if they need moniez.

And believe me there are way more desperate miners out there that need to pay their bills with BTCs as there are buyers who are in a desperate need of BTCs.



Market price moves from traders not from individuals selling bitcoins for cash.

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June 13, 2013, 11:41:31 AM
 #25

while we wait (read = "hope") someone make big money manipulating the price
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June 13, 2013, 12:07:48 PM
 #26

Greed: the one reason why bitcoin hasn't made a huge advancement socially, and why governments are eyeing it so carefully.

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June 13, 2013, 12:33:22 PM
 #27

Thats just what i thought - why can't just everyone stop selling under 680 $ :-)

Funny thing is: Buyers could do the same and just stop buying above 30$. And then?

Price will stay high and buyer will buy bitcoins at high, if they need bitcoins.

LOL!

Why not?

Price will stay low and seller will sell bitcoins at low, if they need moniez.

And believe me there are way more desperate miners out there that need to pay their bills with BTCs as there are buyers who are in a desperate need of BTCs.



who cares about miners that cant afford electricity. hash rate is high enough for now so if they cant afford mining then maybe they should simply stop this. another group of people who cares only about they profit and forgets that if they lower price then it will hurt them in the long run too.

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June 13, 2013, 12:35:44 PM
 #28

Greed: the one reason why bitcoin hasn't made a huge advancement socially, and why governments are eyeing it so carefully.

huh? greed allowed bitcoin to grow. nobody would ever know about bitcoin if not a promise of income.

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June 13, 2013, 12:39:20 PM
 #29

it looks like you are confusing many things. there is no laws in bitcoin but decisions of majority.

If you are in the US are are caught doing this, you probably can be prosecuted.

Quote
there is no such a thing like overvalued bitcoin because it has to have big value to be useful because of its limited quantity.

Sure there is.

Quote
and the last thing people buying stuff or transferring money with bitcoin might not need to even know its value because it is irrelevant when you buy bitcoin to buy something right away using them.

If the cost of the item changes with the market that might be the case, but most of us are paid in fiat so if we buy at $150 and then the price drops to $75 resulting in bitcoin cost of that widget we want doubling, we are paying more of our paycheck than if we waited to buy at $75.

Thus if it looks like bitcoin is in a bubble, I'm using cash because it would suck to buy the coins and then have the price plummet before it is spent.

Quote
there is no such thing like short term better. the higher price of bitcoin and the more merchants the better.

Of course there is such a thing as short term better.

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June 13, 2013, 12:41:36 PM
 #30

i try not sell bitcoin as much as possible. i have been doing some things to try and support bitcoin. definately if i am going to purchase something i try to buy it with bitcoins first.  the other thing i've been doing is trying to spread the wealth. Back when btc was 8 dollars each i made up cd roms with 1 btc in a wallet.dat file and gave them away to my coworkers friends and family. when btc went up to 200+ and was all over the news quite a few of those ppl downloaded wallets.  i dunno how much that helps but i figure it can't hurt.  i try not to think of the 25ish bitcoins i gave away.

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June 13, 2013, 12:47:02 PM
 #31

it looks like you are confusing many things. there is no laws in bitcoin but decisions of majority.

If you are in the US are are caught doing this, you probably can be prosecuted.


I don't live in the US like most people in the world. And this funny country don't have any rights over bitcoin and they law has no meaning for bitcoin too.
The rest i wont even quote because you are just trolling.

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June 13, 2013, 12:47:46 PM
 #32

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation

Quote
Market manipulation is a deliberate attempt to interfere with the free and fair operation of the market and create artificial, false or misleading appearances with respect to the price of, or market for, a security, commodity or currency. Market manipulation is prohibited in the United States under Section 9(a)(2)[1] of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and in Australia under Section s 1041A of the Corporations Act 2001. The Act defines market manipulation as transactions which create an artificial price or maintain an artificial price for a tradeable security.

Just because bitcoin isn't a centralized currency doesn't alleviate you from following the laws in the country you reside in.

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June 13, 2013, 12:49:14 PM
 #33

it looks like you are confusing many things. there is no laws in bitcoin but decisions of majority.

If you are in the US are are caught doing this, you probably can be prosecuted.


I don't live in the US like most people in the world.

Well good for you.

Quote
And this funny country don't have any rights over bitcoin and they law has no meaning for bitcoin too.
The rest i wont even quote because you are just trolling.

Have a nice day.

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June 13, 2013, 01:04:59 PM
 #34

Greed: the one reason why bitcoin hasn't made a huge advancement socially, and why governments are eyeing it so carefully.

huh? greed allowed bitcoin to grow. nobody would ever know about bitcoin if not a promise of income.

I did. I never jumped on the bitcoin wagon because of a promise of income. I simply thought it was a interesting idea and fooled around with it for a while. I never held over 5 coins, even when they were worth pennies each. Think about it this way, if bitcoin had a a majority of users (excluding malicious bankers) that made at least the slightest effort to promote bitcoin as a currency rather a get rich quick scheme, you would have a much more social economy, take yourself for example. Bitcoin is not socially acceptable, the Big Mac is.

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June 13, 2013, 01:06:05 PM
 #35

Thats just what i thought - why can't just everyone stop selling under 680 $ :-)

Funny thing is: Buyers could do the same and just stop buying above 30$. And then?

Price will stay high and buyer will buy bitcoins at high, if they need bitcoins.

LOL!

Why not?

Price will stay low and seller will sell bitcoins at low, if they need moniez.

And believe me there are way more desperate miners out there that need to pay their bills with BTCs as there are buyers who are in a desperate need of BTCs.



Market price moves from traders not from individuals selling bitcoins for cash.



You dont get it do you?

Whats proposed here is basically a sellers strike. There is absolutely no reason why there shouldnt be a buyers strike possible too.

When you have got two parties standing in front of each other and one is demanding 640$ and the other is offering 30$ it comes basically to the point who is willing in to accept the others side offer first.

And there is absolutely no reason why this side should be the buyers side!

Bitcoins cant be compared to corn, wheat or whatever where there is a basic demand for. Nobody NEEDS Bitcoins.

You said it yourself, basically its all just traders. Nobody of those traders really NEEDS Bitcoins.
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June 13, 2013, 01:22:45 PM
 #36

i would like to add that is 10x harder to sell in BTC than usd or eur....
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June 13, 2013, 01:23:01 PM
 #37

Quote
Bitcoins cant be compared to corn, wheat or whatever where there is a basic demand for. Nobody NEEDS Bitcoins.

You said it yourself, basically its all just traders. Nobody of those traders really NEEDS Bitcoins.

Nearly nobody really needs shoes, but it's way more comfortable to use them.
Same goes for Bitcoin.

As far as I can tell there is quite a demand for shoes.
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June 13, 2013, 01:54:30 PM
 #38

not selling a shit, unless it hits something like 5k per coin, sorry guys. Undecided
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June 13, 2013, 04:18:59 PM
 #39


Quote
and the last thing people buying stuff or transferring money with bitcoin might not need to even know its value because it is irrelevant when you buy bitcoin to buy something right away using them.

If the cost of the item changes with the market that might be the case, but most of us are paid in fiat so if we buy at $150 and then the price drops to $75 resulting in bitcoin cost of that widget we want doubling, we are paying more of our paycheck than if we waited to buy at $75.

Thus if it looks like bitcoin is in a bubble, I'm using cash because it would suck to buy the coins and then have the price plummet before it is spent.


There's no need to risk anything if you are worried the price might go down.  If you are prepared to buy bitcoins to then use them to buy goods, you can basically take one of two options depending on how risk-averse you are.

Option 1: To do this, you just need a small float of bitcoins.  Don't buy the coins first, but rather hold the money (temporarily) as cash at the exchange until you are ready to purchase something.  Then, once you make the purchase (with your float), you can immediately re-buy the coins at the current price.  The net effect is the same (fiat -> BTC -> goods), but you have risked nothing.

Option 2: If you are confident prices may rise or at least stay the same (and can handle it if you are wrong), buy the coins first and then buy what you want with them.  You may wind up getting a deal in the end vs if you had bought with fiat in the first place.  There is risk this way, but as I say - if you can't handle that, go with Option  1.

I have done this (option 2) several times over the past couple of months and wound up getting a slight deal each time.  Bought from bitcoinstore and the price in the end by the time I bought the goods ended up being slightly cheaper than if I had made the purchase at newegg with cash in the first place.

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June 13, 2013, 04:29:53 PM
 #40

The problem with the OP's approach is that is not a what a free market is.

At the moment when you introduce an artificial rule into a market which prevents true price discovery, even if only for a short time (say 1-3 months), that has the effect of destabilizing the market, potentially for a long time afterwards.

Artificially blown bubbles take a long time to work themselves out, resulting in imbalanced markets for quite a while afterwards.

Even if the intention is "done with the best of intentions", that does not matter, because once you've perturbed the market, it is no longer in it's original equilibrium, with balanced inputs and outputs.

It is akin to the chaos theory analogy. If a butterfly flaps its wings in China, you get a tornado in New York (on Wall St.).

This is the problem with the Federal Reserve, the Japanese Stock market, the housing market and a whole lot of other places today. If enough people or agencies try to "fix the market", all they end up doing is distorting and causing more imbalance in the market. This is what the Central Planning Committees in the Soviet Union tried to do, and they failed miserably at it.

The best way to fix an economy is to let people make their own decisions about what to buy and when, and stop trying to prop up asset bubbles blow up by ignorant idiots who do not want to suffer the consequences of their actions.

The central banks around the world are simply propping up their friends and cronies. Nothing more. By making a statement to hold on to your coins, you are, in effect, no better than any stupid bank or central office who now holds a lot of overpriced real estate on their books and refuses to sell it at almost any price that does not record a profit. Why? Because they cannot book any loss, as they have no reserves.

Artificial orders to "stop selling" have not helped the Italian stock markets any. They go on for a few days or weeks, and then true price discovery takes place. It simply does not work.
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