|
SOSLOVE868 (OP)
|
 |
June 13, 2013, 03:19:02 PM
Last edit: June 13, 2013, 03:58:25 PM by SOSLOVE868 |
|
The reason is simple:
ASIC devices are only use for BTC mining purpose , they will depreciate its value over the time and with no residual value, not like GPU miners they can sell its graphic card if mining is not attractive for them. this equal to set a exit barrier for those new ASIC miners. the only things for them to recovery their investment is to maintains BTC price at acceptable level by act rationally when BTC price is under their expect profit range ,( limiting their supply to the market), util the market adjust price level at what they expected.
I think BTC price are determine by factors below:
legal factors.
mining investment.
people's trust.
Since ,the development of ASIC we will see a more stabilize price ever. People never stop investing in BTC, this is the truth so far, KNC pre-order sold 8562 units. no matter what the currency they used to pay, we should assume all those cost paid to KNC will as a indirect investment into the BTC world, thus the ASIC mining will further increase the price of BTC. further more , not only KNC, there are BFL ,ASICMINER and so on. payments made to mining rigs manufactures are far more than what we thought , may be more than the money paid to the online exchange.
If no government intervention or other related bad news in the future, we should expecting another BTC price increase ,because of those ASIC devices are start mining . That increase is coping to the market trend and based on people's rationality , if anyone ask me , what the BTC price are backed ? I will say that BTC price is backed by every currency investing into mining and those payments made to its reflect cost.
PS: The rights to issue money should not below to government , it should below to its users which are people.
Welcome to debate with me , if you feel that assumptions above are not rational and are false.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"You Asked For Change, We Gave You Coins" -- casascius
|
|
|
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
BitcoinAshley
|
|
June 13, 2013, 03:43:26 PM |
|
Sure, ASIC miners will have to maintain scarcity and keep that 3600/day faucet as blocked as possible in the event that price starts going below their comfort zone. The question is how much of daily sell-side volume do miners contribute? If no government intervention in the future, we should expecting another BTC price increase , I respectfully disagree that this depends on no government intervention. If killing bitcoin were as easy as hurling AML regs at legacy exchanges, FinCEN and other authorities would have done it a long time ago. As we see in countless cases, government regulation for a good/service that is in demand will actually increase prices. You can't fight economic laws. The oft-made argument that reduction in supply of bitcoins (achieved via regulation) would automatically reduce demand is a very weak one as similar situation has not materialized in the case of illegal drugs, alcohol during prohibition, BitTorrent filesharing, US Dollars in Argentina, etc. Think of your own examples. Bitcoin is an extremely useful technology and that will not change. So long as the protocol remains healthy, it will be a tool to fight the corrupt Banksters. |
|
|
|
|
|
SOSLOVE868 (OP)
|
|
June 13, 2013, 03:56:50 PM |
|
Sure, ASIC miners will have to maintain scarcity and keep that 3600/day faucet as blocked as possible in the event that price starts going below their comfort zone. The question is how much of daily sell-side volume do miners contribute? If no government intervention in the future, we should expecting another BTC price increase , I respectfully disagree that this depends on no government intervention. If killing bitcoin were as easy as hurling AML regs at legacy exchanges, FinCEN and other authorities would have done it a long time ago. As we see in countless cases, government regulation for a good/service that is in demand will actually increase prices. You can't fight economic laws. The oft-made argument that reduction in supply of bitcoins (achieved via regulation) would automatically reduce demand is a very weak one as similar situation has not materialized in the case of illegal drugs, alcohol during prohibition, BitTorrent filesharing, US Dollars in Argentina, etc. Think of your own examples. Bitcoin is an extremely useful technology and that will not change. So long as the protocol remains healthy, it will be a tool to fight the corrupt Banksters. Yes, you are right , it also depend on how much of daily sell-side volume do miners contribute, the question is if price below their comfort zone, they will buying BTC instead of mining, thus I think this ask wall will be eat by the market very quickly . I think most people invested in BTC will not likely to see their money destroy by crash of BTC price . If no government intervention in the future, we should expecting another BTC price increase , I should change it , i means if not any government related bad news in the future , we should see a price increase because ASICs devices. |
|
|
|
|
Buffer Overflow
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1015
|
|
June 18, 2013, 04:01:24 PM |
|
ASIC devices are only use for BTC mining purpose
Wrong. They are can, and currently are, mining alts, like ppcoin for example. |
|
|
|
|
lucas.sev
|
|
June 18, 2013, 04:03:17 PM |
|
ASIC devices are only use for BTC mining purpose
Wrong. They are can, and currently are, mining alts, like ppcoin for example. aren't alts practically pegged to bitcoin price? |
|
|
|
|
|
SOSLOVE868 (OP)
|
|
June 18, 2013, 04:15:39 PM |
|
ASIC devices are only use for BTC mining purpose
Wrong. They are can, and currently are, mining alts, like ppcoin for example. aren't alts practically pegged to bitcoin price? From my personal opinion, alt coins are not perfect substitute to bitcoin, if bitcoin totally crashed this equally means people loss faith on encrypt currency, there are no reason that other coins will be survive, may i ask you one question , if BTC totally crashed what will you do ? investing in other encrypt currency or go back to reality hold FUD, I think most people will choose to back to their own currency . |
|
|
|
|
|
SOSLOVE868 (OP)
|
|
June 18, 2013, 04:23:22 PM |
|
ASIC devices are only use for BTC mining purpose
Wrong. They are can, and currently are, mining alts, like ppcoin for example. Yes , they can, but consider of the liquidity level provides by alt coins and bitcoin, mining most of alt coins by ASIC device is a hopeless action, it well very difficult for those miner to recovery initial capital by mining alts coin, you should understand that all ASIC device are extremely over priced, for those guys who buying those devices if they are rational they will never used it to mining other coins, due to liquidity issues. And as above I stated I personally do not believe alt coins are substitute to BITCOIN, the reason they are survive is because the succeed of bitcoin, if bitcoin went wrong is equally means the concept of encrypt currency is not longer appreciate by people, thus all alts coin will disappear either. |
|
|
|
|
|
True___Blue
|
|
June 18, 2013, 04:42:37 PM |
|
Most alts are Scrypt based derivatives of Litecoin, and at present can not be mined with ASICS. The few exceptions to this are: PPCoin (PPC), Namecoin (NMC), Terracoin (TRC), Devcoin (DVC), Freicoin (FRC), and IXCoin (IXC).
There are some people looking into getting ASICS to mine Litecoin and other scrypt based coins but it will be away before that is posible. I also wonder if it will ever be a possibility or just a fantasy.
|
|
|
|
|
SOSLOVE868 (OP)
|
|
June 18, 2013, 04:45:44 PM |
|
Most alts are Scrypt based derivatives of Litecoin, and at present can not be mined with ASICS. The few exceptions to this are: PPCoin (PPC), Namecoin (NMC), Terracoin (TRC), Devcoin (DVC), Freicoin (FRC), and IXCoin (IXC).
There are some people looking into getting ASICS to mine Litecoin and other scrypt based coins but it will be away before that is posible. I also wonder if it will ever be a possibility or just a fantasy.
So,my assumption isn't false language, the up coming ASIC will has postive effect on BTC price, since it set entry and exit barrier for the miner, and currently those other Coins are useless, provides with needless liquidity, no reason to use those expensive ASIC devices to mining them . |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
SOSLOVE868 (OP)
|
|
June 18, 2013, 04:57:48 PM |
|
Liquidity is the issue, may be they can mining ALTs by choose which is most profitable, the thing is how could they sold out ???price of alt coins often distorted, if they could not sell it or very difficult to sell ,despite might more profitable , I do not think they will mining to those coin. |
|
|
|
|
Buffer Overflow
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1015
|
|
June 18, 2013, 05:05:55 PM |
|
Liquidity is the issue, may be they can mining ALTs by choose which is most profitable, the thing is how could they sold out ???price of alt coins often distorted, if they could not sell it or very difficult to sell ,despite might more profitable, I do not think they will mining to those coin.Well someone called 'teek' is currently throwing 200GH/s at https://ppcoin.d7.lt/stats mining pool. That 200 isn't from a GPU farm. |
|
|
|
|
SOSLOVE868 (OP)
|
|
June 18, 2013, 05:12:10 PM |
|
Liquidity is the issue, may be they can mining ALTs by choose which is most profitable, the thing is how could they sold out ???price of alt coins often distorted, if they could not sell it or very difficult to sell ,despite might more profitable , I do not think they will mining to those coin. Those alt coin are so poor....any of ASIC could destroy them by 51% attack....thereby no reason for ASIC to join them. |
|
|
|
|
cypherdoc
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
|
|
June 18, 2013, 06:39:37 PM |
|
i agree with the premise of the OP.
there are millions being invested into mining which is what's driving the hashrate upwards relentlessly.
the price is acting as a speculative oscillator around the hashrate as it goes higher.
|
|
|
|
|
|
niko
|
|
June 18, 2013, 06:55:49 PM |
|
The reason is simple:
ASIC devices are only use for BTC mining purpose , they will depreciate its value over the time and with no residual value, not like GPU miners they can sell its graphic card if mining is not attractive for them. this equal to set a exit barrier for those new ASIC miners. the only things for them to recovery their investment is to maintains BTC price at acceptable level by act rationally when BTC price is under their expect profit range ,( limiting their supply to the market), util the market adjust price level at what they expected.
I think BTC price are determine by factors below:
legal factors.
mining investment.
people's trust.
Since ,the development of ASIC we will see a more stabilize price ever. People never stop investing in BTC, this is the truth so far, KNC pre-order sold 8562 units. no matter what the currency they used to pay, we should assume all those cost paid to KNC will as a indirect investment into the BTC world, thus the ASIC mining will further increase the price of BTC. further more , not only KNC, there are BFL ,ASICMINER and so on. payments made to mining rigs manufactures are far more than what we thought , may be more than the money paid to the online exchange.
If no government intervention or other related bad news in the future, we should expecting another BTC price increase ,because of those ASIC devices are start mining . That increase is coping to the market trend and based on people's rationality , if anyone ask me , what the BTC price are backed ? I will say that BTC price is backed by every currency investing into mining and those payments made to its reflect cost.
PS: The rights to issue money should not below to government , it should below to its users which are people.
Welcome to debate with me , if you feel that assumptions above are not rational and are false.
The problem with you starting assumption is that about 60 000 coins are traded every day at major exchanges. This doesn't even include OTC and in-person deals. In comparison, miners currently provide an average of 3 600 new coins per day. Therefore, miners withholding or selling coins cannot have any significant effect on the price. |
They're there, in their room.
Your mining rig is on fire, yet you're very calm.
|
|
|
|
SOSLOVE868 (OP)
|
|
June 18, 2013, 07:11:51 PM |
|
The reason is simple:
ASIC devices are only use for BTC mining purpose , they will depreciate its value over the time and with no residual value, not like GPU miners they can sell its graphic card if mining is not attractive for them. this equal to set a exit barrier for those new ASIC miners. the only things for them to recovery their investment is to maintains BTC price at acceptable level by act rationally when BTC price is under their expect profit range ,( limiting their supply to the market), util the market adjust price level at what they expected.
I think BTC price are determine by factors below:
legal factors.
mining investment.
people's trust.
Since ,the development of ASIC we will see a more stabilize price ever. People never stop investing in BTC, this is the truth so far, KNC pre-order sold 8562 units. no matter what the currency they used to pay, we should assume all those cost paid to KNC will as a indirect investment into the BTC world, thus the ASIC mining will further increase the price of BTC. further more , not only KNC, there are BFL ,ASICMINER and so on. payments made to mining rigs manufactures are far more than what we thought , may be more than the money paid to the online exchange.
If no government intervention or other related bad news in the future, we should expecting another BTC price increase ,because of those ASIC devices are start mining . That increase is coping to the market trend and based on people's rationality , if anyone ask me , what the BTC price are backed ? I will say that BTC price is backed by every currency investing into mining and those payments made to its reflect cost.
PS: The rights to issue money should not below to government , it should below to its users which are people.
Welcome to debate with me , if you feel that assumptions above are not rational and are false.
The problem with you starting assumption is that about 60 000 coins are traded every day at major exchanges. This doesn't even include OTC and in-person deals. In comparison, miners currently provide an average of 3 600 new coins per day. Therefore, miners withholding or selling coins cannot have any significant effect on the price. Most people are holding coins and while mining coins by their miner rigs. I mean this part of people , actually has a great impact on price ,I think most miner are not selling every day what they has , and they are hold large potion of BTC indeed, if the price below certain level , they will not sell, if you look back the history of BTC mining, the price of BTC is related to mining difficulty. |
|
|
|
|
|
Manna
|
|
June 18, 2013, 07:32:06 PM |
|
Someone said, that the increased difficulty make it happen, that less coins are produced every day, is that true ? With the increase in difficulty the price in long term can only rise  Or it will fall a little bit when the new asicminer generation is coming in october, we will see, only my thoughts. |
|
|
|
|
|
SOSLOVE868 (OP)
|
|
June 18, 2013, 07:34:10 PM |
|
Someone said, that the increased difficulty make it happen, that less coins are produced every day, is that true ? With the increase in difficulty the price in long term can only rise Or it will fall a little bit when the new asicminer generation is coming in october, we will see, only my thoughts. Ok. we will know by then ~ |
|
|
|
|
|
niko
|
|
June 18, 2013, 07:40:54 PM |
|
if you look back the history of BTC mining, the price of BTC is related to mining difficulty.
I did look back, carefully, many times. I even applied cross-correlation algorithms. I even corrected the data for technology leaps from CPU to GPU to ASIC. Mining difficulty mostly follows price, not the other way around. Google search volume mostly follows price, not the other way around. What price follows, in order of importance, is (1) chaos, (2) insider trading and information, (3) paid and orchestrated media campaigns as part of pump'n'dump attempts As I clearly explained in my previous post, miners absolutely cannot play any significant role in exchange rates. The numbers are rock solid. |
They're there, in their room.
Your mining rig is on fire, yet you're very calm.
|
|
|
|
SOSLOVE868 (OP)
|
|
June 18, 2013, 07:52:53 PM |
|
if you look back the history of BTC mining, the price of BTC is related to mining difficulty.
I did look back, carefully, many times. I even applied cross-correlation algorithms. I even corrected the data for technology leaps from CPU to GPU to ASIC. Mining difficulty mostly follows price, not the other way around. Google search volume mostly follows price, not the other way around. What price follows, in order of importance, is (1) chaos, (2) insider trading and information, (3) paid and orchestrated media campaigns as part of pump'n'dump attempts As I clearly explained in my previous post, miners absolutely cannot play any significant role in exchange rates. The numbers are rock solid. So, what is you though about ASICs? are they really does has any positive impact on price ? what I thought is this time is different, because CPU or GPU to stop mining are not any cost issue lock them to do so ,but as I stated ASIC are totally different concept , you can't use CPU or GPU to judging that ASICs will has the same impact as those two. In fact, that since last time price drop we will see a steady build up through time, Again, people are buying BTC instead of mining. the only thing we need to discuss is whether BTC will continue maintaining people's trust. if it does, then the question will be very clear, if price below profit level, miner will continue mining , but not selling. My argument is related either no bad news and no good news ,everything is remains the same.. the join ASIC will secure the price of BTC and with a positive impact. |
|
|
|
|
|
