Are the mods getting paid from this forum?

[Maged]

World of Warcraft are un-paid forum mods, and game mods.

Blizzard MVP here. That's absolutely wrong. Anyone that has any power in Blizzard games or on their forum are paid employees. Unpaid mods on big sites/games elsewhere are also usually low quality overall because you need to get so many of them to prevent burnout.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Theymos sells ad services and earns money. What's your business what he does with his own money again?

If i'm not wrong theymos is just a caretaker like other admins, he does not own's this forum, and it's not his private property.
Real owner is satoshi.

I'm about four pages behind in this thread, so apologies if this has been addressed.

This post reminded me of something. Theymos doesn't own it. Mt Gox does. The only way theymos would be able to transfer monies as he's done is through the blessing of Mt Gox.

What is going on here? (opted to not use all caps, but am desiring an explanation if one is available)

Back to reading this enlightening thread some dude created.

[John (John K.)]

Theymos sells ad services and earns money. What's your business what he does with his own money again?

If i'm not wrong theymos is just a caretaker like other admins, he does not own's this forum, and it's not his private property.
Real owner is satoshi.

I'm about four pages behind in this thread, so apologies if this has been addressed.

This post reminded me of something. Theymos doesn't own it. Mt Gox does. The only way theymos would be able to transfer monies as he's done is through the blessing of Mt Gox.

What is going on here? (opted to not use all caps, but am desiring an explanation if one is available)

Back to reading this enlightening thread some dude created.

The server was owned by MT.Gox some time ago, but as of now the server is hosted by Private Internet Access. I'd think that MT.Gox has nothing to do with us now.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Would be interesting to see how the good ol' IRS sees this non-owner and not an official nonprofit forum structure but now a bunch of mods admitted and claimed btc addresses receiving income to themselves.

to my knowledge none of the forum owners or hosting occurs in the US, so its probably exempt to the laws of the IRS

https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/contact-us

Where are you located?
We are located in the US. [...]

LONDON TRUST MEDIA, INC.
2885 Sanford Ave SW
Suite 20138
Grandville, MI 49418

If under subpoena, PrivateInternetAccess.com may release data in order to comply with legal obligations or in order to enforce the PrivateInternetAccess.com Terms of Service and/or other agreements.
PrivateInternetAccess.com may release data in order to protect the rights, property and/or safety of PrivateInternetAccess.com, its constituents, and/or other visitors and clients.

Yes, I know this is about the VPN they are offering but I wouldn't be surprised if they gave in under pressure for some content on this forum (e.g. the Securities or the Gambling section).

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andrew-lee/38/46b/b4b

Andrew Lee
Co-Founder and CEO - PrivateInternetAccess.com
Los Angeles, CaliforniaInternet
Current   
London Trust Media, Inc., Lifeboat Foundation
Previous   
Mt. Gox Live, National Honey Almond, Inc.

Who owns it?

Depends on your definition of ownership. Different resources are controlled by different people. Private Internet Access has ultimate control of the server. Sirius owns the domain. A lot of the money is managed in accordance with the Treasury Agreements, which defines a somewhat more complex organizational structure, though these agreements don't rule the entire forum. I coordinate it all, but I have no ultimate, binding authority over anything except the bitcoins that I hold (and I'd like to reduce this). No one person can permanently shut down the forum.

http://apt.thebigboss.org/onepackage.php?bundleid=com.mtgoxlive.trader&db=

Bitcoin by MtGox Mobile

Current Version: 3.14-1 - Downloads: 8421
Author / Maintainer: Andrew Lee (rasengan) / BigBoss

From rasengan (Andrew Lee)

i'm happy you took that step. looking forward to see reviews

i have no time to review now, nor do i need the app, but i wanted to look into appcelerator for a long time so it's on my list

did you code mtgoxlive.com? it's really cool. just some remarks:
interpolating points may look nice but misrepresents the actual market depth. i would optionally change that for rectangular lines.
also the green line jumps between sellers and buyers a lot. i would offer an optional split into two lines - a seller line and a buyer line.
the traded volume is not visible in the graph. bars on the left and right edge of the screen underneath the rest maybe?

Great!  Appcelerator is really neat.

I did not code MtGoxLive.com, but I agree that it is awesome.  I will pass on these messages to the developer!

Thanks!

Looks to me to be a VERY complex organizational structure (COS, for short).

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Talk about a COS.

http://www.bizapedia.com/in/BITCOIN-FOUNDATION-INC.html

Status:   Active
Filing Date:   09/13/2011
Entity Type:   Non-Profit Domestic Corporation
File Number:   2011091300448
Filing State:   Indiana (IN)
Company Age:   1 Year 9 Months
Principal Address:   
3809 Steeplechase Drive
Carmel, IN 46032

Registered Agent:   Andrew Lee
3809 Steeplechase Drive
Carmel, IN 46032

[QuestionAuthority]

Stop it Bruno. Theymos said they moved it and I believe him (why lie about that). This just looks silly now.

[theymos]

rasengan had something to do with MtGox Live, which was later acquired by MtGox. PIA is not owned by MtGox.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I think the intent of my two posts above was missed.

[r3wt]

I think the intent of my two posts above was missed.

not entirely. i understood it.

[SaltySpitoon]

Honestly, I wouldn't call it "getting paid to moderate" the majority of the moderators get like $10-20 in Bitcoins per month, its more of a tip than an official paycheck. Of course the people like Theymos that spend 169 hours per week working get paid more, but its far from an organized business where you get paid an hourly wage, or salary. Its like, do you tell the IRS about the $20 you spend per month paying the neighbor boy to mow your grass? Probably not, because its fairly insignificant. Its more of a thank you for helping out, and allows a few mods to spend the bitcoins on an indulgence that they wouldn't normally tap their savings for.

[theymos]

The forum's server is actually hosted by nforce.nl. I'm not sure how easy it would be for the US government to force PIA to do anything regarding the server. They aren't really the forum's ISP. The server is a gift from PIA to the forum. They don't have root access or anything, though because they pay the bills, they probably have ultimate control over the server in the eyes of nforce.nl. Maybe this situation could be improved.

[QuestionAuthority]

I think the intent of my two posts above was missed.

I missed it. What were you implying with the walls of text?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Theymos sells ad services and earns money. What's your business what he does with his own money again?

I don't even understand why you guys feel the need to justify yourselves.

I agree strongly with this. Mods getting paid to do mod work is just a sign that both this forum and BTC is becoming mature.

Honestly I wish they were open about it from the start, that would have been the transparent thing to do. But getting paid to do work? Why is this such a radical idea for some?

Hey, bud!

Again, the issue is not that the mods shouldn't get paid, but that it wasn't disclosed to the 100K+ members on this board who firmly believed that what they do was for gratis, thus hopefully non-bias. Unfortunately, that has now come into question, albeit not by me (currently, but...).

A handful of mods of been kind to me in the past, as well as theymos, sans the two unexpected vacations, with hopefully not a permanent vacation in the works, otherwise I may have to re-fire up Nikki-T-B.  

I think the intent of my two posts above was missed.

I missed it. What were you implying with the walls of text?

Google "2885 Sanford Ave SW" bitcoin (using quotes for the address), keeping the name Andrew Lee in mind.

Did you notice my post above where I shown that AL was asked point-blank if he developed a site and his reply was with a negative, yet it's proven that he was mistaken?

Did you see where Andrew Lee registered the Bitcoin Foundation Inc.?

Did you see that AL owns PIA?

Would you like to see what the BBB thinks about the pseudonyms that AL uses?

Would you like to know of the other hosting sites that AL operates?

[a1phanumrc]

Theymos sells ad services and earns money. What's your business what he does with his own money again?

I don't even understand why you guys feel the need to justify yourselves.

I agree strongly with this. Mods getting paid to do mod work is just a sign that both this forum and BTC is becoming mature.

Honestly I wish they were open about it from the start, that would have been the transparent thing to do. But getting paid to do work? Why is this such a radical idea for some?

Agreed. Why is this such a big deal that this thread has gotten this long?

Agreed.

[theymos]

Did you notice my post above where I shown that AL was asked point-blank if he developed a site and his reply was with a negative, yet it's proven that he was mistaken?

Mtgox Live was developed by coderrr, I believe. rasengan was involved in some other way.

[QuestionAuthority]

Theymos sells ad services and earns money. What's your business what he does with his own money again?

I don't even understand why you guys feel the need to justify yourselves.

I agree strongly with this. Mods getting paid to do mod work is just a sign that both this forum and BTC is becoming mature.

Honestly I wish they were open about it from the start, that would have been the transparent thing to do. But getting paid to do work? Why is this such a radical idea for some?

Hey, bud!

Again, the issue is not that the mods shouldn't get paid, but that it wasn't disclosed to the 100K+ members on this board who firmly believed that what they do was for gratis, thus hopefully non-bias. Unfortunately, that has now come into question, albeit not by me (currently, but...).

A handful of mods of been kind to me in the past, as well as theymos, sans the two unexpected vacations, with hopefully not a permanent vacation in the works, otherwise I may have to re-fire up Nikki-T-B.  

I think the intent of my two posts above was missed.

I missed it. What were you implying with the walls of text?

Google "2885 Sanford Ave SW" bitcoin (using quotes for the address), keeping the name Andrew Lee in mind.

Did you notice my post above where I shown that AL was asked point-blank if he developed a site and his reply was with a negative, yet it's proven that he was mistaken?

Did you see where Andrew Lee registered the Bitcoin Foundation Inc.?

Did you see that AL owns PIA?

Would you like to see what the BBB thinks about the pseudonyms that AL uses?

Would you like to know of the other hosting sites that AL operates?

Ok, but I don't see any problem with that. http://www.howtoacceptbitcoin.com/2012/10/pay-privately-to-surf-privately.html?m=1

That was never my concern anyway so carry on with your walls of text there buddy.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Did you notice my post above where I shown that AL was asked point-blank if he developed a site and his reply was with a negative, yet it's proven that he was mistaken?

Mtgox Live was developed by coderrr, I believe. rasengan was involved in some other way.

The Bitcoin Show – Episode 035

Guest: Andrew Lee Co-founder of MtGoxLive.com bitcoin address shortener: http://BTC.to http://MtGoxLive.com/mobile MtGoxLive.com is a live trend, price resistance and overall, overview of the MtGox.com Bitcoin Exchange market. It provides real time updates with websocket and/or Ajax, when websockets are unavailable.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andrew-lee/38/46b/b4b

Lead Developer - Mobile
Mt. Gox Live
June 2011 – January 2012 (8 months)Japan
- Cofounded Mt. Gox Live
- Acquired by Tibanne Co Ltd.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Did you notice my post above where I shown that AL was asked point-blank if he developed a site and his reply was with a negative, yet it's proven that he was mistaken?

Mtgox Live was developed by coderrr, I believe. rasengan was involved in some other way.

The Bitcoin Show – Episode 035

Guest: Andrew Lee Co-founder of MtGoxLive.com bitcoin address shortener: http://BTC.to http://MtGoxLive.com/mobile MtGoxLive.com is a live trend, price resistance and overall, overview of the MtGox.com Bitcoin Exchange market. It provides real time updates with websocket and/or Ajax, when websockets are unavailable.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andrew-lee/38/46b/b4b

Lead Developer - Mobile
Mt. Gox Live
June 2011 – January 2012 (8 months)Japan
- Cofounded Mt. Gox Live
- Acquired by Tibanne Co Ltd.

I went to Karaoke with Andrew a few weeks ago and he had told me about that. He basically sold that site to MtGox. I don't think he is connected to MtGox at all, but that doesn't have anything to do with the major concerns which (again) are:

• Soliciting donations from the community under the guise of creating a new forum (and never even starting said development)
• Gathering now 6000 BTC under the guise of creating a new forum and not spending on said purpose, instead spending it to pay whom Theymos wants to pay (without notice of any kind to the community before or after receiving and spending said funds)
• Developing a broken reputation system that encourages spam, extortion and removes the right to defend from the victims of such, in order to avoid giving BFL a scammer tag all while allowing BFL to continue to fund the forum with advertising revenue despite their consistent fraud

Yes, the forum is a for-profit company that is just unregistered. We have proven this in this thread already.
Yes, Theymos is free to do whatever he wants on his website. It is "none of our business".
Yes, it is a lie to continue soliciting donations under the guise of creating a new forum and the lies need to stop.
Yes, it would be better for the reputation of this for-profit unregistered company if more transparent announcements were made about what is going on with all the riches the community bestowed open it out of good will (and under the guise of something that is 12 months late).

You can argue and shoe shine this turd all you want, but without transparency, without a fair reputation management system that allows for rebuttals and petitions for removal, and most importantly, without both a clear explanation of where funds are going (no sleezy wording) before soliciting them, and actual progress on said intentions, there is no reason to support this business. All we're apparently doing is enabling laziness, taking away our right to vote further with our money (they don't need anymore), etc.

edit: Yes, it is absolutely fine to pay moderators if you must, although there is no need to on this server, with hundreds of willing trustworthy parties interested in contributing their time to a good cause. That is a different complaint for a different thread though.

[JordanL]

Thanks to theymos and the mods for clearing this up. I certainly agree with the general consensus that the mods deserve payment for their efforts.

To those who are complaining about a lack of transparency; they have been completely transparent here, giving exact details as soon as they were asked. theymos even very clearly answered the question about the board's ownership.


"other useful purposes"

Paying a reasonable amount to admins and mods is exactly something everyone should expect when reading this phrase.

[Matthew N. Wright]

there is no reason to support this business.

As far as I understand it, the only way to support "this business" is with ads. If you don't like what they use the ad money for (paying mods to mod), why not just stop buying ads (this is assuming you even buy them in the first place)?

Well, there's also donations of course, which I'm sure many people now feel they made mistakes giving as the funds did not go to the purpose advertised now after 12 months.

I agree with you that if you don't want to support the business of bitcointalk.org, you shouldn't buy ads, but I think it goes a bit beyond that, down to lending credibility by even using it. I'm pondering the right thing to do right now. If it were just this, I could excuse it perhaps, but that dirty broken reputation system that is basically a toy for slander is borderline last straw.