[Closed] Black Arrow's Avalon

[dan99]

I'd rather spend the 99 coins "pre-ordering" 300GH/s from BFL, or 350+ GH/s from KNC.  or who knows how much power from anyone of the other open source designs.

KNC is a scam and we all know it.

Can you proof that they are what you say?

[blackarrow]

Can we please keep this thread on topic?

What do you consider a fair price for Avalon delivered in July?

[Xialla]

Yes do you accept Paypal, and an open day for the members to visit you and ask a million questions?

they are delivered their boards without any problems. I was also their customer..

otherwise, I can't believe, that one of manufacturer marked other one as scam. Blackarrow, you are not standard member or customer on this board - you are doing business here, so please think 3x times before you anything post and try to behave little bit as professional.

[Xialla]

Can we please keep this thread on topic?

What do you consider a fair price for Avalon delivered in July?

recommend you to check this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=209750.0 for compare with other competitors and set reasonable price.

[KS]

Can we please keep this thread on topic?

What do you consider a fair price for Avalon delivered in July?

recommend you to check this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=209750.0 for compare with other competitors and set reasonable price.

the timings are off and the difficulty estimates too low. needs fixing first.

[blackarrow]

otherwise, I can't believe, that one of manufacturer marked other one as scam. Blackarrow, you are not standard member or customer on this board - you are doing business here, so please think 3x times before you anything post and try to behave little bit as professional.

I agree with you and I'm sorry for that. We would like to take it back;

The only reason why I said that is that we just can't believe that they'll achieve the claimed performance. Our ASIC design house claims that this kind of chip is impossible.

[blackarrow]

recommend you to check this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=209750.0 for compare with other competitors and set reasonable price.

The lowest we can do in the current market conditions is $7600. We've already updated the first post.

[k9quaint]

Build. Then sell.

[blackarrow]

Build. Then sell.

We tried this with Lancelot. It doesn't work. Now we have a lot of money invested in Spartan 6 FPGAs which we need to sell somewhere else.

[TheSwede75]

I will bid BTC76 - IF you accept this as a bid, I will start a group buy asap and order the unit as soon as within 24 hours. This price is built and shipped to the US correct? With unit delivered within 1 month (20-31 July 2013).

If this is all correct and you accept the bid, please PM me.

[blackarrow]

Not interested at that price; not really even close to a break-even situation. n a Diff will be 40MM at delivery, and thats if you actually hit your timeline.  You need to consider margins far lower than the 100% your trying to get, especially o preorder.

Anyway; good luck, others might be interested.

Why is an Asicminer Blade with 13Ghash worth 50BTC and Avalon 65Ghash doesn't worth 99BTC?

[k9quaint]

Not interested at that price; not really even close to a break-even situation. n a Diff will be 40MM at delivery, and thats if you actually hit your timeline.  You need to consider margins far lower than the 100% your trying to get, especially o preorder.

Anyway; good luck, others might be interested.

Why is an Asicminer Blade with 13Ghash worth 50BTC and Avalon 65Ghash doesn't worth 99BTC?

IIRC, the ASICMiner blades were already built and ready to ship. If BlackArrow slips by a month (due to supplier delays beyond their control for instance), it could severely compromise the profitability of the transaction. It is an additional element of risk that cannot be easily quantified.

[TheSwede75]

Not interested at that price; not really even close to a break-even situation. n a Diff will be 40MM at delivery, and thats if you actually hit your timeline.  You need to consider margins far lower than the 100% your trying to get, especially o preorder.

Anyway; good luck, others might be interested.

Why is an Asicminer Blade with 13Ghash worth 50BTC and Avalon 65Ghash doesn't worth 99BTC?

IIRC, the ASICMiner blades were already built and ready to ship. If BlackArrow slips by a month (due to supplier delays beyond their control for instance), it could severely compromise the profitability of the transaction. It is an additional element of risk that cannot be easily quantified.

Yep, that's the gamble.

[blackarrow]

I will bid BTC76 - IF you accept this as a bid, I will start a group buy asap and order the unit as soon as within 24 hours. This price is built and shipped to the US correct? With unit delivered within 1 month (20-31 July 2013).

If this is all correct and you accept the bid, please PM me.

Sorry, we cannot accept group buy as we have a bad experience discussing shipping cost and shipping insurance with group buy.

Your bid has been noted and we will request payment once we've secured orders for 40 devices.

[KS]

Build. Then sell.

We tried this with Lancelot. It doesn't work. Now we have a lot of money invested in Spartan 6 FPGAs which we need to sell somewhere else.

Unfortunately for you, you were late to the game. Playing catch up is not profitable in this market. If I were you I would contact the potential ASIC chip suppliers directly and try to work out a deal for recurring business.

[blackarrow]

If BlackArrow slips by a month (due to supplier delays beyond their control for instance), it could severely compromise the profitability of the transaction. It is an additional element of risk that cannot be easily quantified.

If there's any chance the delivery date to slip, we will let everybody know and decide if we should cancel all batch and return the payments. We have always been very accurate with our delivery dates and a 2nd BFL won't happen.

[derr777]

I applaud you for working on building units like this, so I don't want to get too into bashing pricing..  people will pay it if it is worth it, point taken.

However,  my guess is that noone in their right mind will pay 50btc for a 13GH unit anymore.. that was last month; when they release the next design, the price will be far down from there, on a btc/GH ratio.  

But.. I thought they have sold for more than they were worth on two seperate occasions (In april at 75BTC and in May at 50BTC,) so take what I say with a grain of salt.  I expected that neither would ever break even, and the jury is still out on whether they will.

What I do know with near absolute certainty is they won't break even if sold today at 50BTC, and that Avalons won't break even with end of July delivery at 99BTC.  Of these two things I am as certain as I can be.

Good Luck, though..  I don't have any problem with you trying to get the price you need to make it worthwhile for you to undertake the project.

[turtle83]

Is my understanding of your offer correct?

You are asking for bids for fully functional 65 GH/s Avalon clone with PSU ready to mine delivered by July 31 or we get our full BTC back. Is that correct? i.e. you guarantee the date?

Whatever is the case, i would wait until friedcat reveals whats under his sleeve before forming an opinion about this.

[CoinHoarder]

Not interested at that price; not really even close to a break-even situation. n a Diff will be 40MM at delivery, and thats if you actually hit your timeline.  You need to consider margins far lower than the 100% your trying to get, especially o preorder.

Anyway; good luck, others might be interested.

Why is an Asicminer Blade with 13Ghash worth 50BTC and Avalon 65Ghash doesn't worth 99BTC?

No offense BlackArrow but your FPGAs, ASICMINER Blades, ASICMINER USBs, and now.. your price for an Avalon clone are way too expensive for most experienced bitcoin mining investors that do their research on the Bitcoin network projections and profitability. The way difficulty is going up so high fast, a lot of these overpriced options have a possibility that they will never break even. Most of the people that are buying the overpriced mining equipment are going to get burned IMO. I've seen most of them using the logic like "well.. if Bitcoin value goes up, then it's a good investment anyways," but in reality they would just be better off buying Bitcoins in that scenario.

KNCMiner set an attractive price, and scam or no scam there are going to be a lot of people that throw money at them blindly... millions of dollars easy. Do you want to be an overpriced Avalon reseller and sell thousands of dollars of equipment, or do you want to be a big boy in the ASIC arena and sell millions of dollars worth of equipment with attractive pricing? The day is going to come very soon when ASIC manufacturers have to come down on their current pricing. You could be one of the first and capture a large market share.

Nevertheless, the more ASIC options the better, so I wish you luck in your venture.

[TheSwede75]

I will bid BTC76 - IF you accept this as a bid, I will start a group buy asap and order the unit as soon as within 24 hours. This price is built and shipped to the US correct? With unit delivered within 1 month (20-31 July 2013).

If this is all correct and you accept the bid, please PM me.

Sorry, we cannot accept group buy as we have a bad experience discussing shipping cost and shipping insurance with group buy.

Your bid has been noted and we will request payment once we've secured orders for 40 devices.

I understand, however if I were you. I would remove the bidding component and just price then unit @ a flat USD rate. This would absolutely expedite your time to fill the 40 orders. And I would order one within 24 hours and make payment in BTC @ GOX trading average per 24h.

Just a suggestion. Far too many people will be worried about cost fluctuation in an auction and the process will take a very long time.

If you set an attractive fixed USD price (say $7000 including shipping) I can almost guarantee that you would sell out In a few days.