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Author Topic: The truth about the BFL 1000 BTC fund?  (Read 6351 times)
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Matthew N. Wright
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June 15, 2013, 03:24:27 AM
Last edit: June 16, 2013, 07:16:26 PM by Matthew N. Wright
 #1

As a consultant for the Bitcoin Conference in Amsterdam, Netherlands this September 27-29,  against my better judgement I figured it couldn't hurt to query BFL in regards to their 1000 bitcoins already pledged and earmarked for charities, non-profits, projects, etc. as penance for over-promising and under-delivering. My courteous request for information turned into an eye opening revolution about paranoia and ego.

Warning: Below are the raw, uncut messages between us. Those who get offended easily on the internet may want to avert their eyes. Also, all comments must remain on topic or they will be removed. No BFL fanboying and no BFL trashing either. This is sewious.


I'm not sure if you're getting my messages and ignoring them, if you have me on ignore, or if you're just too busy to respond, but I wanted to try and get a hold of you one last time just the same.

There is a non-profit funded convention in Amsterdam, Netherlands this September 27-29 (http://theconference.eu) and our funds come from attendees, booth sales, and donations to the conference. Since BFL has to spend 1000 BTC anyway for being late on delivery, would it be acceptable to help sponsor this non-profit endeavor as well?

Cheers,

Matthew

You badmouth BFL and me every chance you get and you want a handout?  Yeah right, get real.  What kind of drugs are you on?  You should lay off them.

You're as bad as Charlie Hoskins whining for a handout for his bitcoin education project after claiming BFL is a scam.  

You badmouth BFL and me every chance you get and you want a handout?
You're mistaken. I supported Sonny K despite the obvious issues and I am very upset with BFL's lack of shipment. I think it is safe to say at this point that BFL is a scam until they have shipped though and I think a scammer tag is warranted until then (times have changed, Pirate saw sure to that).

I also don't remember "bad mouthing" you, are you sure you're not confusing me with people who care more about the subject, like smoothie or one of the other alt-currency board regulars? I'm usually busy bothering Theymos for his lack of integrity.

To point, the conference I'm referring to is not *me*, so your feelings about me are irrelevant. The conference is run by Moe Levin with accounting being done by Rassah. I am simply lending a hand to them as you should too. As I understand it, the BFL charity fund of 1000 BTC is directed to endeavors that deserve or need them, I don't remember seeing "must be a fan of BFL and their business ethics" as a requirement for applying, nor was I aware that you were the only one deciding who could receive funds. Could you clarify this for me?

You're as bad as Charlie Hoskins whining for a handout for his bitcoin education project after claiming BFL is a scam.  

Charlie Hoskins is delusional and here for self promotion. I'd just ignore him.

Matthew


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The topic here is where that money comes from (scams, scammy companies buying advertisements using funds they defrauded from users, etc),

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(No, I do not support BFL, I support honesty).

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Mine is the sole opinion of Theymos, whose integrity can be called into question on multiple occasions I might add (he supports ponzis, refuses to give BFL a scammer tag, reverses "absolute" positions constantly, and continues to collect funds for the forum that have yet to be put to use in 12 months, despite the now probably millions of dollars collected).

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I wonder if Theymos made the "Trust" segment in expectation of this and will just say "Okay, I finally agree that BFL are a bit shady but now we can just give their forum account negative feedback if you feel like it. Thanks for playing!"

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refuses to give a scammer tag to BFL

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but the real problem here is people like Inaba who spend their efforts arguing with BFL customers that they're doing a good job when any honest person could prove otherwise.

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It may seem like there is some collective experience here for your business, but don't forget that this is the community that put millions of dollars into Bitcoinica, Pirateat40, BFL, etc etc etc.

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And all we got was a nightmare.

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This. This is looking more and more like a long con every single day. Reminds me of 419 scammers who after stealing money come back later to promise to pay it back but need a little more to send it to them. Milking every last dime.

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That is correct. BFL could be considered a fraudulent business scheme (it would be harder to argue that once they actually ship, but since they haven't, they're defecto scammers).

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I am disgusted by BFL for lying repeatedly about "2 weeks", for a year now.

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I know why you did what you did, I know why I did what I did too. I know I'm not a scammer and I'm pretty sure you're not a scammer. This isn't about you or me, this is about what people classify as "scammers", what criteria Theymos uses to give the tag out (for god's sakes, BFL still doesn't have a tag!), etc.

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I don't know what he's waiting on for BFL either.

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Josh and BFL have already earned a scammer tag, Theymos is just apparently waiting for something. As someone who has received a hasty scammer tag from Theymos *twice* since joining these forums, it always has been quite insulting to watch the favoritism here. It's kind of what made me (a normally serious poster) into a troll in the first place-- I completely lost all respect for these forums on multiple occasions.

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Who here regrets NOT..

dealing with abuse everytime they try to figure out what's happening with their order?
being lied to on a regular basis?
waiting 7+ months (and still waiting) for anything to actually be shipped?
watching their opportunity costs rise and their bitcoins quadruple in value while they sit on their hands?

Even if BFL delivered TODAY, on spec even, it has already become a horrible, horrible investment in comparison to Avalon.

Yeah... thanks for your support.  There's no need for you to put yourself out any more and support us going forward, your efforts haven't gone unnoticed and you'll get exactly what your support is worth.  Not a damned thing.

To point, you are associated with the conference, therefore consideration is off the table, just like anything Phinneus or Charlie is associated with.  Your association with an organization has cost them thousands of dollars, I hope it's worth it.

You don't have to be a fan of BFL or the business ethics, you just have not be a hypocritical asshole.

Yeah... thanks for your support.
Nothing you've posted contradicts what I already said. I am absolutely for BFL getting a scammer tag *until* shipments are made. I am leaning towards Avalon receiving the same. There is no excuse for the lack of professionalism shown from BFL. Are you upset that I am not pleased with BFL? What does my opinion of BFL's business practices have to do with your opinion of me? Are you the owner of BFL?

Your association with an organization has cost them thousands of dollars, I hope it's worth it.
I don't think that's a genuine post in the slightest. I don't not buy a BFL rig because you're representing them, I don't buy because I doubt I'll ever receive one. I understand in the face of constant trolling you may think that my messages are insincere, but this is just me talking to you. The walls and excuses you're putting up are uncalled for.

I would like to ask that you give a response to my earlier inquiry that you seem to have missed.

As I understand it, the BFL charity fund of 1000 BTC is directed to endeavors that deserve or need them, I don't remember seeing "must be a fan of BFL and their business ethics" as a requirement for applying, nor was I aware that you were the only one deciding who could receive funds. Could you clarify this for me?

Are you the final judge of what charities or projects receive the funds?
Are charities, organizations, projects and any and all associated individuals who are against BFL's business practices to date, automatically disqualified from said project fund due to their association or opinions?

Thanks!

Matthew

Still waiting on a response, but it's starting to look like the fund is not a real fund, but just further investments and 'gifts' to fans of BFL. That doesn't seem to meet the sane requirements for a charity, and I think they should be called out on this. Since Theymos seems to be lacking in the integrity department by letting them continue to advertise here, not delivering a scammer tag, etc, I am beginning to think the only clear solution is to boycott the forums.

Looking forward to constructive, non-trolling comments.

(edit: I've deleted 2 anti-BFL troll comments so far and one BFL-fanboy comment. I would like to reiterate that the topic here is the fund, not the business or Inaba's personality).

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June 15, 2013, 04:30:42 AM
 #2

Has BFL spent any coin from the fund yet, or are they going to "hold" it for 100 years?
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June 15, 2013, 04:35:16 AM
 #3

BFL is scum and should be treated as such.

One of the best worst practices I've seen a startup business do.

The worst part is they are getting paid off it big time no matter how pissed off they make people.

Nothing we can do about it either, what has been done is done. Imagine all the BTC they are swimming in for "testing" the miners before sent out, to believe they aren't I think is foolish.

It was a well thought out scummy business idea.

Trick people into investing > delay products > use products to generate more money > then send them out.

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June 15, 2013, 04:44:51 AM
 #4

They will never see any money from me.
Matthew N. Wright
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June 15, 2013, 05:01:33 AM
 #5

Has BFL spent any coin from the fund yet, or are they going to "hold" it for 100 years?

There should be a published guideline at least. Not wanting to give to a needy cause because that needy cause listens to things I say, or doesn't praise BFL, is a very disingenuous stance for a company trying to placate a community for their previous mistakes and abuse.

@everyone: I don't want to bitch about BFL, that is an entirely different topic. I don't want to discuss Josh's paranoias and apparent lack of people skills. I want to discuss the fund itself. From what I can tell, it's the only reason they don't have a scammer tag, and yet, it's not what it's supposed to be. That is the point of this thread. What is the truth about the BFL 1000 BTC fund? If it's legitimate, what are the guidelines and requirements? If it's illegitimate, why aren't they holding a scammer tag yet?

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June 15, 2013, 05:22:22 AM
 #6

I somehow see this being converted into a Anime dramatic scene with back turning and fist pumping: BFL AMV.
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June 15, 2013, 07:33:58 AM
 #7

Matthew, I hate to say it, but they have a point. You've turned into Bruce Wagner and everyone wants to stay as far away from anything you're involved in as they can. I hope this thread causes a BFL supporter to submit a request for another charity and prove you wrong, though.

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June 15, 2013, 07:43:07 AM
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Matthew, I hate to say it, but they have a point. You've turned into Bruce Wagner and everyone wants to stay as far away from anything you're involved in as they can. I hope this thread causes a BFL supporter to submit a request for another charity and prove you wrong, though.
The BFL charity fund's transparency and legitimacy is being questioned and your only comment is to generalize the opinions of BFL Josh as being that of "everyone" and try to compare me to a homosexual self-important?

You disappont me Maged. You also insult the intelligence of everyone here. Is this what we get to look forward to once BFL's ads are paying your forum moderator salary?

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June 15, 2013, 07:43:43 AM
 #9

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You're as bad as Charlie Hoskins whining for a handout for his bitcoin education project after claiming BFL is a scam.  

As much as I strongly dislike you Matt, thank you for confirming what I thought. BFL represented their charity as an independent fund and now it just appears to be a PR proxy of BFL. I requested funds for BEP to see if I'd ever get a response.

I was happy to answer any and all questions regarding the use of requested funds, provide regular reports on how the funds were spent and also discuss the philosophy and growth of BEP. We have delivered a product to market that is beneficial to all Bitcoiners and totally free. We are also on schedule for all future products and have gathered the support of many in this community. Josh's comments clearly indicate that is no neutrality in the distribution of the funds promised nor accountability to anyone in the community.

It makes me sad and yet again adds to the already tarnished reputation of BFL. I would honestly like someone in a leadership position on this forum to answer why no one from BFL has received some form of scammer tag? I mean honestly why do you have a reputation system if this conduct is accepted in the first place?

 

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June 15, 2013, 07:50:55 AM
 #10

Matthew, I hate to say it, but they have a point. You've turned into Bruce Wagner and everyone wants to stay as far away from anything you're involved in as they can. I hope this thread causes a BFL supporter to submit a request for another charity and prove you wrong, though.
The BFL charity fund's transparency and legitimacy is being questioned and your only comment is to generalize the opinions of BFL Josh as being that of "everyone" and try to compare me to a homosexual self-important?
Yes, because that's how bad your rep is. I look forward to others submitting similar requests to BFL.

Is this what we get to look forward to once BFL's ads are paying your forum moderator salary?
Yes.

but only because I could care less that BFL indirectly pays me anything and my opinion on the matter has remained consistent.

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June 15, 2013, 07:52:19 AM
 #11

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You're as bad as Charlie Hoskins whining for a handout for his bitcoin education project after claiming BFL is a scam.  

As much as I strongly dislike you Matt, thank you for confirming what I thought. BFL represented their charity as an independent fund and now it just appears to be a PR proxy of BFL. I requested funds for BEP to see if I'd ever get a response.

Ironically, I don't strongly dislike you, just how how much you talk like "The Founder" and Atlas. Not everything you make is as big and important as you think. If you could accept that along wih criticisms, I'm sure there would be room for friendship and collaboration. I'm going to be here a very long time afterall.

Back on topic, wasn't the reason BFL didn't get a acammer tag that they were to donate to charities and they didn't do that? Didn't Maged admit that the reason behind creating the "trust" system was because Theymos didn't want to cut off his cashcow, BFL? Yet everyone else is still getting and holding scammer/untrustworthy tags. The hypocrisy and corruption is deafening.

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June 15, 2013, 07:53:07 AM
 #12

It's funny how everyone forgot about the 2nd 1000 BTC by Josh/BFL...

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June 15, 2013, 07:54:56 AM
 #13

It's funny how everyone forgot about the 2nd 1000 BTC by Josh/BFL...
Link?

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June 15, 2013, 07:59:47 AM
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Ironically, I don't strongly dislike you, just how how much you talk like "The Founder" and Atlas. Not everything you make is as big and important as you think. If you could accept that along wih criticisms, I'm sure there would be room for friendship and collaboration. I'm going to be here a very long time afterall.

Matt, I've tried very hard to not dislike you and it has nothing to do with your personal attacks. It has to do with you discounting the contributions people in this community have made to the Bitcoin Education Project. If you think I'm some delusional prick, then that's fine, but please don't say the uncompensated work of now 17 people (some working for now weeks) is just a meaningless ego stroke.

I admit that I've made a few mistakes in the social media strategy and my communications during the inception of BEP; however, I will never apologize for giving people in this community a platform to educate others about their passions. Yet you're right this isn't the discussion for this thread.

I would really like a clear answer from the leadership of Bitcointalk regarding BFL. I mean honestly why do you have a reputation system if this conduct is to be accepted. They obviously are misrepresenting the donation.

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June 15, 2013, 08:00:02 AM
 #15

Back on topic, wasn't the reason BFL didn't get a acammer tag that they were to donate to charities and they didn't do that?
Partly, yes.

Didn't Maged admit that the reason behind creating the "trust" system was because Theymos didn't want to cut off his cashcow, BFL?
Uhh... That's a very strange interpretation of what I've said. The creation of the trust system had nothing to do with BFL, as far as I know.

Yet everyone else is still getting and holding scammer/untrustworthy tags. The hypocrisy and corruption is deafening.
Scammer tags are no longer handed out except in the most extraordinary of cases because the trust system is supposed to be a replacement for the scammer tag system. Instead of only being allowed to trust theymos' judgement of whether or not someone is a scammer, you're allowed to add other people's opinions to the list of people you trust, since you clearly think that theymos' opinion on who a scammer is is too narrow.

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June 15, 2013, 08:03:32 AM
 #16

I requested funds for BEP to see if I'd ever get a response.
Let us know how this turns out. I'll be very interested in their response.

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June 15, 2013, 08:04:26 AM
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Scammer tags are no longer handed out except in the most extraordinary of cases because the trust system is supposed to be a replacement for the scammer tag system. Instead of only being allowed to trust theymos' judgement of whether or not someone is a scammer, you're allowed to add other people's opinions to the list of people you trust, since you clearly think that theymos' opinion on who a scammer is is too narrow.

Alright that answers my first question, now I have another. At what point does a business entity cross a threshold that Bitcointalk will no longer desire to be affiliated with them?

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June 15, 2013, 08:05:53 AM
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Yes, because that's how bad your rep is.
That's the funny thing about reputation, Maged. It changes. I'd be more worried about your own as a paid moderator here defending corruption.

Scammer tags are no longer handed out except in the most extraordinary of cases because the trust system is supposed to be a replacement for the scammer tag system. Instead of only being allowed to trust theymos' judgement of whether or not someone is a scammer, you're allowed to add other people's opinions to the list of people you trust, since you clearly think that theymos' opinion on who a scammer is is too narrow.

And yet even I await an honest trust rating system (the current one is not honest as it does not allow rebuttals or petitions for removal of spam) while Theymos's personal opinion "untrustworthy" sits below my name as a reminder of the corruption and bias here. It's okay for BFL to make promises and not deliver, because they buy ads.

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June 15, 2013, 08:07:24 AM
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Let us know how this turns out. I'll be very interested in their response.

I requested twice with two different emails and two other members helping us with fundraising requested. One living in China. No one has ever received a response nor does there exist a form to apply other than an email. I never told Matt nor made my application public knowledge therefore, I do not doubt his post:

Quote
You're as bad as Charlie Hoskins whining for a handout for his bitcoin education project after claiming BFL is a scam. 

 I think BFL's answer is clear. First, they are in charge of donation distribution. Second, distribution is based upon their business interests not benefits to the community.

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June 15, 2013, 08:11:52 AM
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Let us know how this turns out. I'll be very interested in their response.

I requested twice with two different emails and two other members helping us with fundraising requested. One living in China. No one has ever received a response nor does there exist a form to apply other than an email. I never told Matt nor made my application public knowledge therefore, I do not doubt his post. I think BFL's answer is clear. First, they are in charge of donation distribution. Second, distribution is based upon their business interests not benefits to the community.

I've also come to this conclusion. They of course will use someone like Maged to say "well it's just because you don't have an eatablished rep" or something, but without a public guideline, it's funny how anyone but an insider would even know what their reasons or rules are for acceptance (they have yet to respond to my inquiries as to the official process and who is in charge of donation decisions). Judging by the response, it's only one person, the one who lost the bet in the first place. Conflicts of interest abound.

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