Paypal for trading yes/no?

[Endeavour79]

Hi,

after reading through the forum and finding a lot of different answers I am still unclear if I should use Paypal for trading on for example bitmarket.eu.
Is there any risk to pay or receive money for BTCs via Paypal?

What are the DOs and DON'Ts when using Paypal for BTC trading, what is the risk 

Thanks

End.

[bitcoinTrader]

Hi,

after reading through the forum and finding a lot of different answers I am still unclear if I should use Paypal for trading on for example bitmarket.eu.
Is there any risk to pay or receive money for BTCs via Paypal?

What are the DOs and DON'Ts when using Paypal for BTC trading, what is the risk 

Thanks

End.

Dont trade with paypal.

You have below risks:
1) The buyer files credit card chargeback.
2) The buyer files dispute.
3) Paypal freezes your account.

I have gone through all the above.
Hence, just a warning.

[sonba]

I agree with Bitcontrader. As a payer, PayPal is fine, as a seller it's a bad idea. Bear in mind that your counterparty can file dispute and get his money back up to 45 days later...

[ErgoOne]

PayPal is annoying for buyers, but usually safe.  It is NOT SAFE for sellers, though.  PayPal transactions are reversible while Bitcoin transfers are not; a buyer can dispute the transaction for a considerable period of time after it closes and PayPal will reverse it.  Unless you like lawsuits :/, you may find it easier to let yourself be defrauded than to dispute the reversal, or so friends who have done business on PayPal tell me.

BTW, I opened an account there a couple of weeks ago as part of my investigation into various payment methods available to online businesses.  A few days later, I got tired of all the email, logged on and unsubscribed from everything.  (PayPal subscribes you to receive a bunch of email by default.)  After I did that, the next time I logged on PayPal insisted that I agree to their terms of service which let them send me email that I did not ask for and did not want. :/ After I realized that there was no way to avoid this if I wanted to use the account, I closed the account.

Since you agree to receive the email, it isn't spam.  Technically.  But given the hard sell and arm twisting, I considered it an attempt to coerce my agreement to something I did not want.  I decided I didn't need PayPal badly enough to put up with that.

[Grant]

As above, its expensive and it's totally unsafe for sellers. But i have some better news, paypal just got pwnd!

http://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=11235

Close your paypal account.

[moneta]

Short answer is: don't.

Not only it is very unsafe if you're selling because of chargebacks, as the other answers pointed out.
PayPal has a history of freezing accounts related to BitCoin exchange sites and the like.
And it seems that trading currencies is against their TOS.
Not sure if they would go after a private trader, but you never know.

[Endeavour79]

Thanks for all the replies.. It's much more clear now. Thanks!

[iyj]

Check out this guy's site, good info.

http://virtualfaqs.com/forum/paypal/574-paypal-virtual-faq.html

[saykor]

3) Paypal freezes your account.

This is the only one true reason why do not trade BTC with PP.

It is against their rule to exchange e-currency with PP. So if:

1) The buyer files credit card chargeback. - this not will work if you can prove that you send the goods that you sell.
                                                         - chargeback is not so easy to prove. If seller can prove that he send you the goods then you cannot make a charge back and you will lose a fees to your bank for a false try of chargeback.

2) The buyer files dispute. - same reason as point 1.

Yes buyer can fire a dispute BUT... what he will say?
1) His account is hacked? - he have a responsibility on his account to keep save the login details.
                                   - he need to prove that his account it hacked before a few hours when this transaction is made and now when he fire a dispute it is a recovered from the hacker?!?!?!
                                   - if his account is hacked then why not all money is dissapear from it? Why only this transaction is made?

2) He can claim that not receive the goods - hmmm... what goods exactly? he not have a right to buy a e-currency.
                                                          - if you can prove contrary you will win the dispute.
                                                          - Of course if you prove that you send a e-currency for paypal then your account will be freeze. You break their Terms. So you cannot give them a prove and you will lose the dispute.

I akt as a seller and buyer in ebay and use only paypal. I lost few disputes whey I buy and no one... yet whey I sell.
So please stop with this speculations how save is PP for buyer and how awful is for sellers.

If seller can prove that he send the goods to you then he win the dispute. If you cannot prove ( when/if need ) don't sell.

[mizike29]

So far I have had no issues selling bitcoin on EBAY using paypal and have made much higher money on ebay with bitcoin then the market asks for.  If it is an ebayer with good feedback, been a user for awhile, usually no problems, list a paperclip, you can show tracking and delivery, and or print screen on the send, print screen on receiving address and have all that communication in email with the buyer to show that it is his address and he is accepting them, then shouldnt have too much of an issue.

[MKW2012]

I would avoid using Paypal for trading mainly because of the hassle it could turn out to be.

[saykor]

So far I have had no issues selling bitcoin on EBAY using paypal and have made much higher money on ebay with bitcoin then the market asks for.  If it is an ebayer with good feedback, been a user for awhile, usually no problems, list a paperclip, you can show tracking and delivery, and or print screen on the send, print screen on receiving address and have all that communication in email with the buyer to show that it is his address and he is accepting them, then shouldnt have too much of an issue.

is ebay accept to sell a bitcoin? as we know to pay with paypal for a bitcoin is against their terms. then how they are agree to sell in ebay?

[mizike29]

The buyer sends the money via paypal and marks as a gift to avoid the charges paypal hits you with on sales of goods.  No mention of bitcoin is in the delivery of the money, and ebay is still allowing bitcoin posts, with not much problems,  I am using a paperclip and a free bitcoin as mine right now, but it has worked perfectly fine and I have sold over 90 coins so far on ebay for much better prices then MTGOX is offering.  The problem is YES YOU COULD FACE A PROBLEM with a bad buyer.