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jspielberg
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June 17, 2013, 07:06:18 PM |
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I am not particularly a fan of these "Big Brother" type monitoring/validation schemes. I seem to recall Intel in the 90s wanting to put a unique identifier in each chip so that they could validate the identity/location of a machine on the internet. Privacy folks went ballistic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_III#Controversy_about_privacy_issuesWhen you come right down to it, commerce is based to some extent on trust... you either trust your vendor or you don't. If you don't trust them... then don't do business with them (or don't do pre-orders at least). |
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kev7112001
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June 17, 2013, 07:15:37 PM |
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MCXNOW MODERATOR
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binaryFate
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Still wild and free
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June 17, 2013, 07:18:10 PM |
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Real shame. I'd be so pissed if I had some pending orders with them.
I'm waiting to the official reaction from them, if any, with a lot of curiosity...
Thanks BTC for the transparency, things like that get noticed sooner or later!
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Monero's privacy and therefore fungibility are MUCH stronger than Bitcoin's. This makes Monero a better candidate to deserve the term "digital cash".
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coinedBit
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June 17, 2013, 07:19:06 PM |
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I am not particularly a fan of these "Big Brother" type monitoring/validation schemes. I seem to recall Intel in the 90s wanting to put a unique identifier in each chip so that they could validate the identity/location of a machine on the internet. Almost certainly, your cell phone will do all of that these days ...  |
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Loredo
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June 17, 2013, 07:25:57 PM |
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The conspiracy to centralize or shut down Bitcoin is plainly evident to me now. I think you should never underestimate the force of good ol' private enterprise, petty corruption. Here's an analogy. One of my good friends is a retired Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (USA ATF) agent. One case he worked on as a young man was at the Marlboro plant in Virginia. Truckloads of Marlboro cigarettes, hundreds of cases, thousands of cartons were loaded into containers and sent to the Navy at Port Norfolk. Tax free. The guy whose job it was to seal the container, certifying that the seal was not to be broken execpt overseas, would spoof the seal on certain trucks. The driver of that truck would exit on the way to Norfolk, stop, pull out a couple cases into a waiting van, and then press the seal. When the cigs got to Japan or Europe or where ever, nobody even noticed the shortage. They got busted. Mafia? Nope. International cigarette smugglers? Nope? A couple guys who had the motive (money from free cigarettes to sell), means and opportunity. |
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one4many
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June 17, 2013, 07:26:32 PM |
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MAC addresses were probably brought up because "some" OS actually used them to come up with hardware-specific keys for registering your product, to be eligible for free upgrades. I think they used a combination of hardware-specific serials and mixed everything up to ensure that Windows installations would not be prone to double-spending  aha  .... you made it to the point ... this is a bad idea! |
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infested999
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June 17, 2013, 07:34:14 PM |
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The conspiracy to centralize or shut down Bitcoin is plainly evident to me now. I think you should never underestimate the force of good ol' private enterprise, petty corruption. Here's an analogy. One of my good friends is a retired Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (USA ATF) agent. One case he worked on as a young man was at the Marlboro plant in Virginia. Truckloads of Marlboro cigarettes, hundreds of cases, thousands of cartons were loaded into containers and sent to the Navy at Port Norfolk. Tax free. The guy whose job it was to seal the container, certifying that the seal was not to be broken execpt overseas, would spoof the seal on certain trucks. The driver of that truck would exit on the way to Norfolk, stop, pull out a couple cases into a waiting van, and then press the seal. When the cigs got to Japan or Europe or where ever, nobody even noticed the shortage. They got busted. Mafia? Nope. International cigarette smugglers? Nope? A couple guys who had the motive (money from free cigarettes to sell), means and opportunity. He was an ATF agent. The power that comes with that title is huge. Not just "a couple of guys" |
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bobboooiie
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June 17, 2013, 07:37:37 PM |
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This is just bad... If they needed to put them in test like that they could have made it public and give mined coins to person who paid for it. They would made much more of that as it would be PR move of the year
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binaryFate
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Still wild and free
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June 17, 2013, 07:45:22 PM |
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It's not even relevant to wonder if they sould use testnet or if they should use main net. It just does not make any sense to test them more than few hours max. No reason to test chips for weeks, no reason at all. Testing is not a valid excuse, period.
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Monero's privacy and therefore fungibility are MUCH stronger than Bitcoin's. This makes Monero a better candidate to deserve the term "digital cash".
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nbtcminer
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June 17, 2013, 07:48:57 PM |
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No words for the amount of pure shock / disbelief I'm experiencing. I almost brought in on a batch 3 order and to see them do this with batch 2... its so unethical that it makes me want to puke.
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jerfelix
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June 17, 2013, 07:53:13 PM |
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He was an ATF agent. The power that comes with that title is huge. Not just "a couple of guys"
I think the ATF agent was the friend who told the story about the "couple of guys". I think I saw a documentary on this, called "Beverly Hills Cop".... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL1d7QmGDo8 |
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coinedBit
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June 17, 2013, 08:00:52 PM |
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Given the reputation of Avalon, I am sure they'll not just respond here, but rather provide a public announcement on their website, hopefully addressing all open questions. Bottom line being, while we may not agree with the whole issue, the whole thing proves that they're much more legit than most other ASIC vendors, who simply keep on making promises, rather than delivering any hardware at all
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01BTC10
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June 17, 2013, 08:02:13 PM |
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Given the reputation of Avalon, I am sure they'll not just respond here, but rather provide a public announcement on their website, hopefully addressing all open questions. Bottom line being, while we may not agree with the whole issue, the whole thing proves that they're much more legit than most other ASIC vendors, who simply keep on making promises, rather than delivering any hardware at all
Given their reputation I think they will not say anything. We are not "special". |
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coinedBit
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June 17, 2013, 08:06:40 PM |
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There are probably quite a number of folks here who have pending pre-orders with them, so there's the buying-power effect - consequently, if these people were to team up and request a formal announcement be made, it will probably happen...
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Loredo
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June 17, 2013, 08:07:29 PM |
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No, that's what happens to the cigarettes on the other side, when organized crime is involved. But then, because of volume requirements, whole containers "disappear" from, like, Port Elizabeth due to paperwork glitches. I forgot about that scene in the movie. I think the best scene is when the Captain says "Is this the man who wrecked the buffet at the Harrow(?) Club?" I guess they needed to get their chase scene Jones satisified up front. |
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Loredo
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June 17, 2013, 08:10:38 PM |
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There are probably quite a number of folks here who have pending pre-orders with them, so there's the buying-power effect - consequently, if these people were to team up and request a formal announcement be made, it will probably happen...
Doubt there will be any measurable fallout. Somewhere above, someone commented, in effect, "shit, I wish I were them." If Lucifer himself were to come and offer the right asic hash technology for just a little piece of one's soul, there'd be a queue. |
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ThatDGuy
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June 17, 2013, 08:12:27 PM |
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If Lucifer himself were to come and offer the right asic hash technology for just a little piece of one's soul, there'd be a queue.
This all day! |
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coinedBit
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June 17, 2013, 08:13:53 PM |
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it is a neat scheme, and seriously: why sell a product at a price that is exceeded by its recurring output
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binaryFate
Legendary
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Activity: 1484
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Still wild and free
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June 17, 2013, 08:23:26 PM |
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it is a neat scheme, and seriously: why sell a product at a price that is exceeded by its recurring output
Because trust of customers, impacting future orders, will bring more incomes than immediate greed? But you need long-term vision to see things like this... To me, above all, this episode clearly shows that they don't plan on lasting long in the scene. They could as well run away with pre-order money, that would be just even shorter vision than the current one but fully consistent with what we see. |
Monero's privacy and therefore fungibility are MUCH stronger than Bitcoin's. This makes Monero a better candidate to deserve the term "digital cash".
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Mota
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June 17, 2013, 08:25:15 PM |
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becasue they don't sell the product. they SOLD the product, and therefore are obliged to deliver without delays. In most countries you will find a law describing the time a company has to deliver a product which they sold and have in stock. Germany has a limit of 30days, after that you can sue the company for your losses, if they are a direct consequence of their unwillingness to deliver (note that natural disasters, strikes etc. don't count).
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