Is Avalon mining with customer hardware? Answer is here.

[auto2nr1]

If this is true, I demand Yifu give me any and all bitcoins mined with my Avalons. (They are pre-orders, hence the "no refund" policy, but that goes both ways, it means the products and every internal component are 100% mine and thus any income derived from them is also mine.)

I support this.

[1714547226]

1714547226

[KS]

I think you will be sorely disappointed when you receive a 0.65BTC refund per machine for the coins that Avalon "stole" from mainnet

(780 BTC / 1200 miners ≃ 0.65 BTC/miner)

[nbtcminer]

I think you will be sorely disappointed when you receive a 0.65BTC refund per machine for the coins that Avalon "stole" from mainnet

(780 BTC / 1200 miners ≃ 0.65 BTC/miner)

That is if it was only 780 btc... This was just one machine.

[ProfMac]

I think you will be sorely disappointed when you receive a 0.65BTC refund per machine for the coins that Avalon "stole" from mainnet

(780 BTC / 1200 miners ≃ 0.65 BTC/miner)

That is if it was only 780 btc... This was just one machine.

There is another payment this morning.  Do you think they are still mining this one machine after Vicus has control of it?

[Nemesis]

If this is true, I demand Yifu give me any and all bitcoins mined with my Avalons. (They are pre-orders, hence the "no refund" policy, but that goes both ways, it means the products and every internal component are 100% mine and thus any income derived from them is also mine.)

The term did say clearly, no questions, no refund and no guarantee. So thats a big F U in your face. Good luck

[Raize]

There are plenty of reasons to be upset (especially if you're like me and you sent in your trade-ins about two months ago...) but what is obviously a burn-in test (look at the peaks and troughs on the Eligius address) is not one of them.

[Hippie Tech]

Thats BS coinedBit. The world would be freakin awesome without greed because NO ONE WILL WANT TO EXPLOIT YOU.

We must rid ourselves from that greed mongering mentality. A fair and just environment is what Satoshi had in mind when he/they first began to code Bitcoin. Asics and $100/BTC caused most of us to forget.

I think you will be sorely disappointed when you receive a 0.65BTC refund per machine for the coins that Avalon "stole" from mainnet

(780 BTC / 1200 miners ≃ 0.65 BTC/miner)

Keep dreaming..

The amount of BTC scammed is staggering when the coins used to buy these pre-orders are added. 100,000 ?? 500,000 ??

[koob]

The term did say clearly, no questions, no refund and no guarantee. So thats a big F U in your face. Good luck

Show me where term says no questions and no guarantee ? Please stop spreading bullshit and find other thread to troll.

[coinedBit]

Thats BS coinedBit. The world would be freakin awesome without greed because NO ONE WILL WANT TO EXPLOIT YOU.

We must rid ourselves from that greed mongering mentality. A fair and just environment is what Satoshi had in mind when he/they first began to code Bitcoin. Asics and $100/BTC caused most of us to forget.

Sorry for being the one to break it to you, but that's simply not how humanity, and life in general, work.

And concerning "Satoshi's" motives, it is easy to speculate what he had in mind - but keep in mind that he's almost certainly the one sitting on ~BTC 5-6M since the early days of bitcoin as being the role-model of an early-adopter and bitcoin miner, which would currently translate into ~$600M US. So please stop telling us BS about how noble his motives were and how he was going to improve humanity  

http://www.sikharchives.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/satoshi_nakamoto.jpeg

[Matthew N. Wright]

The term did say clearly, no questions, no refund and no guarantee. So thats a big F U in your face. Good luck

Show me where term says no questions and no guarantee ? Please stop spreading bullshit and find other thread to troll.

We Accept Bitcoin Only – Bitcoin allow us to collect large sum of assets in a short period of time, and due their nature the bitcoins can also be move to where they are suppose to go in a similar time frame. It also make sense as the Avalon units mine bitcoins so they should be priced as such accordingly.

No Refunds - The Avalon units are made on a built-to-order basis. This means when you place an order, your bitcoins are used to order parts to construct your Avalon Unit. Refunds therefore are impossible. Utilizing a short time frame, batch based, and built-to-order method allows to manage finances properly and reduce risk for all parties. e.g. Avalon ASIC, the re-sellers and the buyers.

No Address Change - Unless it is a special case no address change will be allowed, please allocate time correctly to handle the delivery of these units, There has been too many people attempting to sell these units and changing their shipping address. You can choose what to do with them after you receive them, but whilst they are still in our hands they will go to the address the order was originally intended for.

Limited Customer Support - The Avalon team is comprised of a small group of capable people; however, we are also extremely limited in manpower. Every one of us handles multitude of tasks, and for this reason we will have very limited customer support. No news is good news. We apologize for this, but we do not expect this situation to change.

Not Newbie Friendly - The Avalon units are designed much like a hardware development board, while it works out of the box with very little configuration it is ultimately geared towards developers and experienced miners, please do your research before purchasing. A good place to start is the Bitcoin Wiki page on Avalon.

Please read this carefully, as with all things Bitcoin one should treat this as an investment and make the decision best for you based on the liquid-able funds available at the moment when placing an order.

TL;DR? It doesn't say that anywhere.  

It doesn't even say that they will be mining with the machines.

Edit: I find this line especially interesting since it backs up the point that the units are the original owner's and that BitSynCom recognizes that the purchasing party has a right to the units

You can choose what to do with them after you receive them, but whilst they are still in our hands they will go to the address the order was originally intended for.

[KS]

Thats BS coinedBit. The world would be freakin awesome without greed because NO ONE WILL WANT TO EXPLOIT YOU.

We must rid ourselves from that greed mongering mentality. A fair and just environment is what Satoshi had in mind when he/they first began to code Bitcoin. Asics and $100/BTC caused most of us to forget.

I think you will be sorely disappointed when you receive a 0.65BTC refund per machine for the coins that Avalon "stole" from mainnet

(780 BTC / 1200 miners ≃ 0.65 BTC/miner)

Keep dreaming..

The amount of BTC scammed is staggering when the coins used to buy these pre-orders are added. 100,000 ?? 500,000 ??

Maybe.

I'm basing my assumption on what proof I have (admittedly, it's not much), but if I were you I wouldn't get worked up on ideas not backed by facts, It won't do you any good. if you think they have scammed so much, search the blockchain, maybe you will come up with something relevant.

[Dagger75]

This is just another example of all us little guys getting screwed again and again.  We gave these ASIC Companies Millions of $$ and now they go ahead and use the equipment we paid for to make themselves untold amounts more under the guise of "burnins" on the Mainnet and "delays"!

Avalon should have had all of these Highly overpriced Batch-2 and Batch-3 products to their customers long ago.

I sure hope greedy companies are not Bitcoins downfall because it has so much potential if the Common Man doesn't get "priced out" of Mining and creates a "Centralized Network" like the Lovely Paypal...

[pikeadz]

Watching. Bumping.  I would like a response from Bitsyncom.

[allten]

This sucks!

I've had no problem telling people that I'm greedy. Not something I'm proud of but I do try to
control it and diminish its influence on my outlook.

It's when greed turns to dishonesty, deception, and outright theft that really pisses me off.

Hope Avalon makes a quick turn around on this mess with no more justifications on this
poor behavior.

[andrewsg]

Sorry for being the one to break it to you, but that's simply not how humanity, and life in general, work.

And concerning "Satoshi's" motives, it is easy to speculate what he had in mind - but keep in mind that he's almost certainly the one sitting on ~BTC 5-6M since the early days of bitcoin as being the role-model of an early-adopter and bitcoin miner, which would currently translate into ~$600M US. So please stop telling us BS about how noble his motives were and how he was going to improve humanity  

Yes Sherlock, you've figured it out - from the date that bitcoin was released, until he disappeared from the scene, for over two years Satoshi had 100% of the network hashrate.

[TheSwede75]

In a business like mining where each past second is more valuable than the future one, I'd say that could be expected that "burnins" would be done against the customers address, especially considering that we are speaking about preorders. I guess the *promise* of profit in ASIC mining its been huge for a limited window, and the companies could get away with it. This is going to change. ROI is going to be very tight for everybody.

Maybe the burning income was counted in the original pricing of the units...? Same net effect as trying to "rebate" via a burnin later.

Doing burnins on mainnet is not in any sense "stealing".
The burnings have to be done anyway, no point throwing that away.

@Luke-Jr:

Here is the difference;

Throwing away would mean that it would otherwise be wasted.

And in the case of burning, it would otherwise be wasted.

Vice: You aren’t doing any mining at all?
Yifu: Nope. Fun fact: none of the Avalon team have their own mining units (outside of test units).

This sounds to me like he's talking about their own personal mining, not what goes on with burnin testing of units they're selling.

Well technically and somewhat ethically you could argue that using the public net for burnin instead of testnet DOES cost the customers money, as it in fact does drive up difficulty by adding hash to the network.

[coinedBit]

right, if you were to order 10,000 ASIC units from a company, it would make a huge difference to the end-customer if these were "live-tested" for 6-8 weeks or if they were just running on testnet and directly shipped.

[cmdbill]

Hey Bitsyn feel free to comment or clear up any of this confusion.  An official response to this development would most likely improve pr standings.

[nbtcminer]

right, if you were to order 10,000 ASIC units from a company, it would make a huge difference to the end-customer if these were "live-tested" for 6-8 weeks or if they were just running on testnet and directly shipped.

You must be mentally challenged if you think BTC mined for 6 -8 wouldn't affect the bottom line of any customer who ordered ASIC mining equipment. Especially if it was a large number like 10,000.

[sharky101]

Hey Bitsyn feel free to comment or clear up any of this confusion.  An official response to this development would most likely improve pr standings.

Here here.

If this is indeed true, this is a massive breach of trust in the bitcoin community. I remember watching a youtube clip of Yifu at the Bitcoin 2013 Conference, he went on about responsibility and seemed to have ethics. A perfectly reasonable explanation seems hard to come by here - by all means mine with my hardware until the shipping date I expect, but to do this 1.5 months after the expected delivery time is just bad business!