Get credit, purchase Bitcoin, declare bankruptcy, profit??

[Jozzaboy]

Good evening,

Now, this might have only just occurred to me now and of course this would constitute fraud but what is stopping an individual from getting a line of credit in the 6 figure range, then purchasing a massive amount of Bitcoins then rinse with bankruptcy? I imagine the individual wouldn't care about his credit if they had several hundred thousand in the 'wallet'.

Your thoughts?

P.s. I hope someone is foolish enough to do this, it would prop the price up a bit for the rest of us  

Legal notice: All this topic and all replies are fictitious works for entertainment purposes only. To perform the action herein would constitute Fraud.

[saddambitcoin]

They would have a more difficult time in the near-term future spending their BTC but I suppose if one wants to destroy their credit this is a good idea.  Personally I already ruined my credit so I can't really entertain the idea to begin with.

[rudrigorc2]

I remembered this:

In 2008, anticapitalist campaigner Enric Durán borrowed €492,000 ($642,306) from 39 different financial entities with absolutely no hope or intention of paying it back. But—as you might expect from an anti-capitalist campaigner—he didn't spend it all on diamond kitchen knives and luxury frisbees. Instead, he ploughed it into a number of unspecified anti-capitalist causes and spent the rest on Crisi, a free newspaper that detailed how he'd done what he did and urged others to do the same.

That display of reckless Robin Hoodery turned him into a hero overnight, but the one problem with becoming a hero through questionably legal means is that, for whatever reason, the police feel like they have to go and lock you up for it. Enric spent two months in jail in 2011 and was released pending trial, which was set for earlier this month. His minimum sentence would be eight years, which might explain why he refused to attend the first trial dates, prompting a warrant to be put out for his arrest. 

full text: http://www.vice.com/read/spains-robin-hood-prefers

[saddambitcoin]

I remembered this:

In 2008, anticapitalist campaigner Enric Durán borrowed €492,000 ($642,306) from 39 different financial entities with absolutely no hope or intention of paying it back. But—as you might expect from an anti-capitalist campaigner—he didn't spend it all on diamond kitchen knives and luxury frisbees. Instead, he ploughed it into a number of unspecified anti-capitalist causes and spent the rest on Crisi, a free newspaper that detailed how he'd done what he did and urged others to do the same.

That display of reckless Robin Hoodery turned him into a hero overnight, but the one problem with becoming a hero through questionably legal means is that, for whatever reason, the police feel like they have to go and lock you up for it. Enric spent two months in jail in 2011 and was released pending trial, which was set for earlier this month. His minimum sentence would be eight years, which might explain why he refused to attend the first trial dates, prompting a warrant to be put out for his arrest. 

full text: http://www.vice.com/read/spains-robin-hood-prefers

hope he's got a brain wallet!!

[Gordon Bleu]

it^s a Dream i know but if Satoshis appears in afew Years after even more greedy Bastards joining the Bitcoin Train
with dat Wallet he could solve a few World Problems i guess,  but who would do that ?

[justusranvier]

Depending on the specific laws of the area you live in, and the care to which you keep your Bitcoin holdings private, it's something that a dedicated person could successfully pull off.

[Cubic Earth]

The system is aware of maneuvers like that, and you don't need bitcoin to hide your assets.  Your strategy has been possible with gold forever.  They are not going to discharge your debts, however, it they determine that you assumed those debts with no intent to pay them back.  So if you sell you car, sell your house and take out a loan, put $100k on your credit cards and funnel it all into gold, and then declare bankruptcy, you'll probably just end up in jail.  Be prepared to flee to Mexico.

[odolvlobo]

Good evening,

Now, this might have only just occurred to me now and of course this would constitute fraud but what is stopping an individual from getting a line of credit in the 6 figure range, then purchasing a massive amount of Bitcoins then rinse with bankruptcy? I imagine the individual wouldn't care about his credit if they had several hundred thousand in the 'wallet'.

Your thoughts?

P.s. I hope someone is foolish enough to do this, it would prop the price up a bit for the rest of us  

There are a couple of problems:

1. First, someone with the ability to obtain a "6-figure" line-of-credit makes a lot of money and has a lot of assets, and would it be stupid to risk losing everything for only a "6-figure" payout.
2. Second, the person would have to show what they did with the money, and convince the judge that they were not committing fraud.

[hendo420]

Good evening,

Now, this might have only just occurred to me now and of course this would constitute fraud but what is stopping an individual from getting a line of credit in the 6 figure range, then purchasing a massive amount of Bitcoins then rinse with bankruptcy? I imagine the individual wouldn't care about his credit if they had several hundred thousand in the 'wallet'.

Your thoughts?

P.s. I hope someone is foolish enough to do this, it would prop the price up a bit for the rest of us  

There are a couple of problems:

1. First, someone with the ability to obtain a "6-figure" line-of-credit makes a lot of money and has a lot of assets, and would it be stupid to risk losing everything for only a "6-figure" payout.
2. Second, the person would have to show what they did with the money, and convince the judge that they were not committing fraud.

1. Start a business(Get loans ect.)
2. Fudge the paperwork so you lose your ass(In reality moving thoes funds to bitcoin)
3. Close the business and file bankruptcy.
4. Wait some time.
5. Start a new business
6. Fudge the paperwork and sell the bitcoins counting it as profit.
7. pay taxes on everything.
8. Profit(Literally)

[Jozzaboy]

Good evening,

Now, this might have only just occurred to me now and of course this would constitute fraud but what is stopping an individual from getting a line of credit in the 6 figure range, then purchasing a massive amount of Bitcoins then rinse with bankruptcy? I imagine the individual wouldn't care about his credit if they had several hundred thousand in the 'wallet'.

Your thoughts?

P.s. I hope someone is foolish enough to do this, it would prop the price up a bit for the rest of us  

There are a couple of problems:

1. First, someone with the ability to obtain a "6-figure" line-of-credit makes a lot of money and has a lot of assets, and would it be stupid to risk losing everything for only a "6-figure" payout.
2. Second, the person would have to show what they did with the money, and convince the judge that they were not committing fraud.

1. Start a business(Get loans ect.)
2. Fudge the paperwork so you lose your ass(In reality moving thoes funds to bitcoin)
3. Close the business and file bankruptcy.
4. Wait some time.
5. Start a new business
6. Fudge the paperwork and sell the bitcoins counting it as profit.
7. pay taxes on everything.
8. Profit(Literally)

You might actually get away with the business one if you were savvy enough with the paperwork unfortunately. This reminds me of the man who took out a loan for 30k on Bitcoins earlier this year, unfortunately the price shot up exponentially and he paid it off in a legal fashion but I'm sure this con has been attempted before.

[Mike Christ]

I remember someone a while back who was planning on getting student loans and completely investing them into Bitcoin.  While this can be an easy way to get a lot of BTC quickly, and with high hopes that BTC will go sky high in the future, it seems like a good idea.  The only problem I can see is trying to purchase that much Bitcoin unnoticed, as to not attract attention, as I'm certain this kind of stuff is frowned upon.  If you attempt something like this, I'd buy locally; the exchanges would be the last place I'd go, since the transfer of fiat in and out of them is being monitored (and those who avoid this get shut down, like Liberty Reserve.)

[marcus_of_augustus]

Hi,

you have just arrived from Wall St. haven't you?

I'm not sure we need your kind around here. Report yourself to Bart Chilton and/or Jennifer Shasky Calvery ....

Thnx.

Good evening,

Now, this might have only just occurred to me now and of course this would constitute fraud but what is stopping an individual from getting a line of credit in the 6 figure range, then purchasing a massive amount of Bitcoins then rinse with bankruptcy? I imagine the individual wouldn't care about his credit if they had several hundred thousand in the 'wallet'.

Your thoughts?

P.s. I hope someone is foolish enough to do this, it would prop the price up a bit for the rest of us  

Legal notice: All this topic and all replies are fictitious works for entertainment purposes only. To perform the action herein would constitute Fraud.

[Matthew N. Wright]

I remember discussing a similar topic with Vladimir here. Basically, as a foreign expat living in a different country there is little your home country can do to collect debts. It makes it quite easy for foreigners to run up bills then go overseas until the statute of limitations up on the debt. That reminds me, time for a credit check to see which trolls here have used my ID to make credit cards in the states this year.

[Jozzaboy]

Hi,

you have just arrived from Wall St. haven't you?

I'm not sure we need your kind around here. Report yourself to Bart Chilton and/or Jennifer Shasky Calvery ....

Thnx.

Good evening,

Now, this might have only just occurred to me now and of course this would constitute fraud but what is stopping an individual from getting a line of credit in the 6 figure range, then purchasing a massive amount of Bitcoins then rinse with bankruptcy? I imagine the individual wouldn't care about his credit if they had several hundred thousand in the 'wallet'.

Your thoughts?

P.s. I hope someone is foolish enough to do this, it would prop the price up a bit for the rest of us  

Legal notice: All this topic and all replies are fictitious works for entertainment purposes only. To perform the action herein would constitute Fraud.

No sir, I have not as much gotten a parking ticket much less committed a felony to my knowledge. I am simply examining the weaknesses and flaws in the system so that an innovator may close these holes.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Hi,

you have just arrived from Wall St. haven't you?

I'm not sure we need your kind around here. Report yourself to Bart Chilton and/or Jennifer Shasky Calvery ....

Thnx.

Good evening,

Now, this might have only just occurred to me now and of course this would constitute fraud but what is stopping an individual from getting a line of credit in the 6 figure range, then purchasing a massive amount of Bitcoins then rinse with bankruptcy? I imagine the individual wouldn't care about his credit if they had several hundred thousand in the 'wallet'.

Your thoughts?

P.s. I hope someone is foolish enough to do this, it would prop the price up a bit for the rest of us  

Legal notice: All this topic and all replies are fictitious works for entertainment purposes only. To perform the action herein would constitute Fraud.

No sir, I have not as much gotten a parking ticket much less committed a felony to my knowledge. I am simply examining the weaknesses and flaws in the system so that an innovator may close these holes.

There's nothing wrong with getting tickets. Most of them are bullshit anyway. I once got a ticket in Korea for "having a motorcycle muffler that sounded too loud" to the cop. Real scientific bad asses we've got here. (Someone didn't like me already for whatever reason, saw me drive by from deep inside their business back store room, accused me of riding on the sidewalk which I wasn't doing, then threatened to call the cops in which case I told them I'd happily wait for them to arrive. They called the cops and told the cops that I had "almost hit some children on the sidewalk" when there wasn't a soul anywhere on that entire block at the time. Chalk one up for being a foreigner in racist Korea).

[bytemaster]

This can work, but do not declare bankruptcy as that invites judges to look into the situation.  Instead settle your debt for pennies on the dollar and be sure you are technically insolvent to avoid paying taxes on debt forgiveness.

Note:  It is immoral to do this if you borrow the money from normal individuals who did not create it out of thin air.   If you borrowed it from a financial institution who committed fraud by creating fiat from nothing with no consideration then the debt is technically invalid anyway.  For a debt to be valid, both parties have to show consideration.   In this instance you created something of value, an "IOU" which you sold to them and they purchased that IOU with counterfeit dollars through accounting tricks. 

One could claim that you were party to the counterfeiting by knowingly borrowing from them.    On the other hand, this same system has stolen far more from you via taxes and inflation than you could possibly recover by executing it so you could look at it as merely recovering stolen loot.

Moral rationalization aside, I cannot recommend this course of action and will point out that there is NOTHING that can be done to stop it except to avoid un-collateralized lending in the first place.

[FeedbackLoop]

I remembered this:

In 2008, anticapitalist campaigner Enric Durán borrowed €492,000 ($642,306) from 39 different financial entities with absolutely no hope or intention of paying it back. But—as you might expect from an anti-capitalist campaigner—he didn't spend it all on diamond kitchen knives and luxury frisbees. Instead, he ploughed it into a number of unspecified anti-capitalist causes and spent the rest on Crisi, a free newspaper that detailed how he'd done what he did and urged others to do the same.

That display of reckless Robin Hoodery turned him into a hero overnight, but the one problem with becoming a hero through questionably legal means is that, for whatever reason, the police feel like they have to go and lock you up for it. Enric spent two months in jail in 2011 and was released pending trial, which was set for earlier this month. His minimum sentence would be eight years, which might explain why he refused to attend the first trial dates, prompting a warrant to be put out for his arrest.  

full text: http://www.vice.com/read/spains-robin-hood-prefers

Spain's legislation is tougher on debts than average. For example: if they foreclosure your home, you still owe the difference between your debt and the foreclosure proceedings.




  

[odolvlobo]

1. Start a business(Get loans ect.)
2. Fudge the paperwork so you lose your ass(In reality moving thoes funds to bitcoin)
3. Close the business and file bankruptcy.
4. Wait some time.
5. Start a new business
6. Fudge the paperwork and sell the bitcoins counting it as profit.
7. pay taxes on everything.
8. Profit(Literally)

#1 - Again, nobody will loan you a lot of money without requiring a lot of collateral.
#2 - You can try to fudge the numbers, but accountants are going to go through the books and if it looks like fraud or embezzlement, you will go to jail and still be on the hook for the money you stole.

Anyway, what is being proposed here is nothing new. Organized crime does this all time. Bitcoins might make it easier.

[Matthew N. Wright]

#1 - Again, nobody will loan you a lot of money without requiring a lot of collateral.

Credit score.

[moni3z]

I had a friend who foolishly did this before going to live/work in the UK for 10 years. He took out as many student loans, bank loans, and applied for as many cards as he could, flew to the UK and drained it all in cash. Then he got his girlfriend there to cash his work cheques (he has dual GB/Can citizenship). Since they can't keep your credit score bad after 7 years of inactivity he essentially has a wiped clean new score, though they went to crazy hilarious measures to track him down like phony postcards from girls asking to phone them, and turned out they were collection agencies.

So in effect he partied hard in the UK as a bartender with extra cash to fly to beaches in Cyprus every year, saved a lot of GBP and came back with a wiped score. This won't work anymore as my government prevents declaring bankruptcy or the 7 year rule for student loans but worked for him. He lives back here now without a scratch on his score after 10.5 yrs so your bitcoin scheme could work so long as no false documents/fraud is involved.

If you declare bankruptcy you still have to give them 30% of your income or something, for the next couple of years so you would want to flee the country and probably work/travel.