New Idea: Newbie test

[r3wt]

I propose that all newbies should read the following post from Danny Hamilton and have to take a test based on it before they can post. lets put some of these great minds we have on the forums to good use! what say ye fine citizens? me thinks this would greatly deter both scammers and curb the naivety and or vulnerability of newbs to scams.  

thank you for the feedback, I appreciate it, I definitely learned a huge lesson, I've always just used blockchain/bitinstan cash deposit but that option is no longer available on those sites. What is the most reliable and safest way that I can purchase bitcoins now?

Step one.  Take a few minutes to learn who on the forum has built up a reputation as trustworthy.  If someone tells you they are trustworthy or that they have a good reputation, that should be an immediate red flag.  It doesn't take long to see from someone's post history if they've been a reputable participant in the forum.

Step two.  Check out localbitcoins.com and see if there is anyone within a reasonable distance of you willing to meet face to face to make the exchange. If not, consider adding your own advertisement to localbitcoins.com.  (If you decide to meet with someone from localbitcoins, meet in a populated, public location.  Preferably one with at least a bit of security.  Take the same precautions you would if you were going to meet with a complete stranger to buy or sell something valuable (such as jewelry).

Step three. If you aren't going to meet up with someone, and you absolutely must do the transaction over the internet, use an escrow provider.  There are several escrow providers that are pretty well trusted throughout the forum.  See this list:

Escrow list
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=108716.0

Escrow in it's simplest form:

• Seller sends the bitcoins to the mutually trusted escrow provider
• Buyer sends payment directly to the seller
• Seller notifies escrow provider that he has received payment
• Escrow provider sends the bitcoins to the buyer

If the seller falsely claims that they id not receive payment, then the escrow provider begins a mediation process.  He collects from each party whatever proof is available, then makes a decision about which proof is the most believable and compelling. If it is determined that the buyer is most likely scamming/lying about paying, then the escrow provider sends the bitcoins back to the original seller.  If it is determined that the seller is most likely scamming/lying about not being paid, then the escrow provider sends the bitcoins to the buyer.

For additional security, and less chance of being scammed by a really good liar that can convince the escrow provider to believe his lies, the arrangements can be made for the escrow provider to receive both halves of the transaction and then once all pieces of the transaction are under the escrow provider's full control, they can forward each piece to the appropriate recipient.  This adds some complexity depending on the payment method.

Some escrow providers advertise a specific fee, others do it for free just to help build the bitcoin community.  If the transaction goes well, and the escrow service made you feel secure that you would receive what you were due, a reasonable gratuity is generally appreciated.  This can be a flat amount (0.1 BTC for example) or a percentage (0.5% of the transaction for example).  Just consider how much the peace of mind was worth to you in addition to the convenience of not having to deal with MtGox or BitInstant, and then tip accordingly.

[nwbitcoin]

Personally, I think changing the process is pointless.

The reason for the newbie jail is to work out who has the patience and commitment to go through to the end, if you don't, then there is a question of long term commitment

I got through the process in less than a day, and I spent it reading all the posts I could get access to.
This increased my understanding of bitcoin, and meant I didn't ask too many stupid questions later.

Try it, you might like it!

[r3wt]

Personally, I think changing the process is pointless.

The reason for the newbie jail is to work out who has the patience and commitment to go through to the end, if you don't, then there is a question of long term commitment

I got through the process in less than a day, and I spent it reading all the posts I could get access to.
This increased my understanding of bitcoin, and meant I didn't ask too many stupid questions later.

Try it, you might like it!

no i did the same thing. i'm just saying before newbs even get to post in newbies, they should have to take a test.

[Welsh]

Personally, I think changing the process is pointless.

The reason for the newbie jail is to work out who has the patience and commitment to go through to the end, if you don't, then there is a question of long term commitment

I got through the process in less than a day, and I spent it reading all the posts I could get access to.
This increased my understanding of bitcoin, and meant I didn't ask too many stupid questions later.

Try it, you might like it!

no i did the same thing. i'm just saying before newbs even get to post in newbies, they should have to take a test.

We would lose a lot of people. Especially people who have problems with reading or concentrating. I don't think a 'test' is needed. It doesn't prove anything. They can just copy and paste. Which means they may not even read it anyway. Use the find function and blam!
At least the system now tests how dedicated they are.
To be honest, if I were a newbie a test would piss me off. I had enough of that in my college...lol

[r3wt]

Personally, I think changing the process is pointless.

The reason for the newbie jail is to work out who has the patience and commitment to go through to the end, if you don't, then there is a question of long term commitment

I got through the process in less than a day, and I spent it reading all the posts I could get access to.
This increased my understanding of bitcoin, and meant I didn't ask too many stupid questions later.

Try it, you might like it!

no i did the same thing. i'm just saying before newbs even get to post in newbies, they should have to take a test.

We would lose a lot of people. Especially people who have problems with reading or concentrating. I don't think a 'test' is needed. It doesn't prove anything. They can just copy and paste. Which means they may not even read it anyway. Use the find function and blam!
At least the system now tests how dedicated they are.
To be honest, if I were a newbie a test would piss me off. I had enough of that in my college...lol

the fundamentally flawed concept in your logic is that you ignore the laws of supply and demand. this forum is a known quantity. a test won't deter users who want to join, but it ensures that newbies have to read up about scams and pass the test prior to being granted posting access to the website. I would understand if you had an actually valid reason, but i do believe you are just being  contrary for the sake of maintaining appearances within the forum. I think its a great idea and if it reduces the frequency at which newbies get scammed, who are you to thumb your nose?

I do not mean to insult you but you kind of insult my intelligence with a generic, predictable response like this.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

What would the test be? Not everyone here is on the forum to trade. Some want to learn more about how Bitcoin works. Some just wants to post a question on SatoshiDICE's thread. etc etc.

[r3wt]

What would the test be? Not everyone here is on the forum to trade. Some want to learn more about how Bitcoin works. Some just wants to post a question on SatoshiDICE's thread. etc etc.

TF, i know you might not be familiar with this but in america we take reading comprehension tests starting in the 7th grade, and I'm fairly certain that in most countries this is the case as well. You may be quite a bit older than me so it might not have been the case when you are in school, but given your intelligence level, I assume you are familiar with the concepts of reading comprehension. essentially you read a paragraph( or in this case the post i linked from DannyHamilton) and below you answer questions about the paragraph. must make 100 percent to pass.

this insures that newbs have atleast a basic understanding of the escrow system and red flags of scamming prior to being swindled by a clever scammer. in fact, just yesterday a guy tried to con me into avoiding escrow, claiming he couldn't reach John K. i said use bitmit, and he gave another excuse. never heard from him again.

In conclusion, i believe it would be in the best interest of everyone(except the scammers) if we made a crash course on avoiding scammers required reading before being granted posting rights in newbies.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

There's a few problems with this:

1) Non English speakers. Ignoring them or telling them to learn English is not a solution.

2) Not everyone is here to trade.

3) If this was the first time I have heard of Bitcoin, I am not going to spend 15 minutes or so doing a reading comprehension test.

Do some A/B testing - I would be very surprised if you don't cut userbase growth by at least 80%.

[Welsh]

So, you want a test which would have to be translated in many different languages?


TO be honest. A lot of people come here to LEARN about Bitcoin and not to trade. There are other places where they prefer to trade as there is built in escrow etc.
It's their own fault if they don't want to read up on scams and how to avoid them. All the material is here. Most of them are sticky threads so they aren't easy to miss.

[r3wt]

There's a few problems with this:

1) Non English speakers. Ignoring them or telling them to learn English is not a solution.

2) Not everyone is here to trade.

3) If this was the first time I have heard of Bitcoin, I am not going to spend 15 minutes or so doing a reading comprehension test.

Do some A/B testing - I would be very surprised if you don't cut userbase growth by at least 80%.

Points 1 and 2 and 3: You do raise valid points. perhaps a drop down box with language select before the test initiates. i realize not everyone is here to trade, but at the very least there should be a disclaimer in bold red letters about the prevalence of scammers on the board, with a button to opt out of the test.

A/B testing? i'm not familiar with that, but supposing there is an opt out of the test, do you still think it would curb the growth rate of the member base?

[Welsh]

There's a few problems with this:

1) Non English speakers. Ignoring them or telling them to learn English is not a solution.

2) Not everyone is here to trade.

3) If this was the first time I have heard of Bitcoin, I am not going to spend 15 minutes or so doing a reading comprehension test.

Do some A/B testing - I would be very surprised if you don't cut userbase growth by at least 80%.

Points 1 and 2 and 3: You do raise valid points. perhaps a drop down box with language select before the test initiates. i realize not everyone is here to trade, but at the very least there should be a disclaimer in bold red letters about the prevalence of scammers on the board, with a button to opt out of the test.

A/B testing? i'm not familiar with that, but supposing there is an opt out of the test, do you still think it would curb the growth rate of the member base?

What about the users who have problems understanding and/or reading large text? A lot of people in the world have concentration issues. Also, they have a FULL 4 hours to search this stuff up. You could post a thread in the newbies area which has a directory of useful posts which teaches them about scams and other useful information.

[Baitty]

We have a long time to search this stuff up ourselves. Self learning is much better than taking tests. Tests actually put pressure on people.

[r3wt]

So, you want a test which would have to be translated in many different languages?


TO be honest. A lot of people come here to LEARN about Bitcoin and not to trade. There are other places where they prefer to trade as there is built in escrow etc.
It's their own fault if they don't want to read up on scams and how to avoid them. All the material is here. Most of them are sticky threads so they aren't easy to miss.

It's funny, but a forum i was a member of ran two identical polls: one a stickied topic, one a normal topic. the sticky got about 1/6th the views of the normal topic, and only recieved 12 votes. the normal topic went on to become a 80+ page post and a discussion on how 7.5 of 10 people or 3/4 of people train their brain to ignore sticky topics and skip right to the regular board scanning for new threads that interested them. perhaps a similar social experiment is in order to prove the premise that most people ignore stickies by default as personal habit.

[r3wt]

We have a long time to search this stuff up ourselves. Self learning is much better than taking tests. Tests actually put pressure on people.

but does it prevent a newbie from falling into the web of a malicious user?

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banner_blindness

[r3wt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banner_blindness

exactly. +1

[Welsh]

I already know people ignore certain information on the internet. Especially things which look like ads. But, what do you do when you look through a sub section?
You will most likely go from top to bottom. Especially new users. They are normally eager to learn more and will scan that newbie page to hell.
Plus, sticky posts look the same as normal threads of this forum. Except they stay at the top. Just look at the amount of views them sticky threads have. I think that says enough of people ignoring them.


Also, this forum you said. If them posts were labelled different then you can't compare them.



PS: The reason I have been questioning you is because I want more information. With more information you might just win me over.

[r3wt]

I already know people ignore certain information on the internet. Especially things which look like ads. But, what do you do when you look through a sub section?
You will most likely go from top to bottom. Especially new users. They are normally eager to learn more and will scan that newbie page to hell.
Plus, sticky posts look the same as normal threads of this forum. Except they stay at the top.


Also, this forum you said. If them posts were labelled different then you can't compare them.

hmmm... perhaps if they are new to forums, which is certainly a possibility. why not eliminate the doubt and make a simple short test? something like:

redflags of scammers

• example scammer technique
• link to a list of useful threads on the subject

Explanation of escrow/trusted escrow providers

• explanation of escrow service
• list of trusted escrow providers
• link to useful threads on subject

4 hour 5 post rule

• explanation of rule
• reason for rule
• whitelist request thread

write your username in the box signifying you agree [_________]
<submit&continue>

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

It doesn't matter how big of a warning you do, there are always idiots who think "gee this guy says he's going to sign off soon, I don't think he's a scammer! gonna send!"

[Welsh]

I already know people ignore certain information on the internet. Especially things which look like ads. But, what do you do when you look through a sub section?
You will most likely go from top to bottom. Especially new users. They are normally eager to learn more and will scan that newbie page to hell.
Plus, sticky posts look the same as normal threads of this forum. Except they stay at the top.


Also, this forum you said. If them posts were labelled different then you can't compare them.

hmmm... perhaps if they are new to forums, which is certainly a possibility. why not eliminate the doubt and make a simple short test.

The user reads the redflags of scammers, tips on escrow, and a couple more useful things like the 4 hour 5 post rule, then writes their username in the box at the end signifying they understand. something short and sweet.

Okay, I'm going to stop pointing out the flaws. As I kind of agree. I was only posting possible flaws.



Here is good reasons:


- People don't take interest in thread titles which they don't want to know much about, even if it's important. They normally skip over it without realising.
- A SMALL test would encourage them to look for the information their selves and input a answer.
- Like I said with the concentration issue. You should of come back and said people who can't concentrate don't want to be looking for a lot of information so this test would be a great way to contain all the NEEDED information.


Don't feel like I was arguing or being funny. I was seeing what you would come up with.


One question: Would all the information be grouped together? Who would it be scattered around in various different sections of the forum?

It doesn't matter how big of a warning you do, there are always idiots who think "gee this guy says he's going to sign off soon, I don't think he's a scammer! gonna send!"

This. People see a opportunity where they can make money (even if it's too good to be true) they will go ahead. They will ignore all the warnings and that's what normally happens.