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Author Topic: MT.GOX PRESS : Statement Regarding Temporary Hiatus on U.S. Dollar Withdrawals  (Read 6169 times)
andrewsg
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June 21, 2013, 03:43:50 PM
 #61

I hear you ... but is it possible that there is a problem with the interface between Gox's platform and the Mizuho's (if one even exists), requiring manual intervention for every request ?

I think it's possible

It's possible of course, but nothing irreparably breaks overnight. If the process was manual to begin with then they would continue the manual process until they had an alternative. It's more likely that Mizuho cut them off, it does sound from the Gox update that it was a surprise to them too. But we have no insight into the why, we can only speculate. And my speculation is that it's not volume on the Mizuho side, the volumes they can do are massive, nor is it due to manual processes on the Mizuho side, these things would be reflected in the cost of the service and passed on the MtGox with a healthy profit margin.

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June 21, 2013, 03:46:39 PM
 #62

Just a few comments, I work in a bank in Asia and I am familiar with the operations department and the processing of swift payments.

Whatever Gox says, swift payments are automated. Many millions of them are processed every day, if anyone thinks it can be done manually, they are kidding themselves. I can understand manual intervention is required from two points of view - instructions submitted with incorrect or missing data and KYC / AML requirements. About the only thing I believe from the latest Gox post is that they do not want to upset Mizuho - whatever the real problem is, they're not telling us.

I have had to deal with a surprising number of bank transfers the old fashioned way with my bank. With Paper. Depending on what gox's relationship is to their bank (why not get a bigger bank?), their own system for verifying with drawls (maybe they personally do everything by hand) and depending on how the bank wants to handle things for them- (maybe they deliberately limit gox) it might not be as automated as you think.

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And one more thing, in my professional life I have seen many situations where banking processes get into trouble due to spikes in volume, either caused by shortages in manpower, network bandwidth, software or hardware limitations. What I have never seen is a decision to shut things down for 2 weeks. Any financial institution would first of all monitor volumes, and would know in advance when they are approaching capacity. They would then plan accordingly, in advance and develop an alternative. This takes time. Months, at least. Sure, you can be surprised by volumes. They can go up faster than expected. In that case, the bank would take one of two decisions, based on internal priorities and funds available to fix the problem. Option 1 is they don't spend any additional money - the current process continues, it struggles, there are delays, but at the same time the alternative system is developed. Once that is done and tested, they flick the switch, usually over a week-end or another point of low volume, minimizing downtime. Option B is similar, except with more money thrown at the problem. You hire more people to help the struggling process, and spend more money to accelerate the development of an alternative. The switch-over is the same, and would never result in a downtime of more than 12-24 hours, and even those, over a week-end.

Also, nobody in the financial industry is moronic enough not to understand the impact of an announcement that you are stopping USD withdrawals, especially when you do not fully disclose the reason. They should have done better in the first place, coming 24 hours later to appease the masses is just not good enough.

Disclosure: I have an account with Mt.Gox and have used them in the past, but have no balance of either BTC or fiat.

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June 21, 2013, 03:50:07 PM
 #63

AML / KYC is very likely the part that requires manual intervention. This would also explain why USD wires were affected.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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June 21, 2013, 04:03:00 PM
 #64

Just a few comments, I work in a bank in Asia and I am familiar with the operations department and the processing of swift payments.

Whatever Gox says, swift payments are automated. Many millions of them are processed every day, if anyone thinks it can be done manually, they are kidding themselves. I can understand manual intervention is required from two points of view - instructions submitted with incorrect or missing data and KYC / AML requirements. About the only thing I believe from the latest Gox post is that they do not want to upset Mizuho - whatever the real problem is, they're not telling us.

I have had to deal with a surprising number of bank transfers the old fashioned way with my bank. With Paper. Depending on what gox's relationship is to their bank (why not get a bigger bank?), their own system for verifying with drawls (maybe they personally do everything by hand) and depending on how the bank wants to handle things for them- (maybe they deliberately limit gox) it might not be as automated as you think.


Mizuho is one of the big 4 Japanese "Megabanks", (the others are Mitsubishi UFJ, Sumitomo Mitsui and Nomura). It is one of the largest financial institutions in the world, we are talking a couple of trillion in assets under management, and a market cap the size of GM or Ford. You don't just "get a bigger bank".

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andrewsg
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June 21, 2013, 04:04:41 PM
 #65

AML / KYC is very likely the part that requires manual intervention. This would also explain why USD wires were affected.

I can totally buy that. But still, you do not stop a money making process over night unless you are forced to.

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andrewsg
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June 21, 2013, 04:14:07 PM
 #66

  • 12:31 Blitzboom: even the media idiots like techcrunch are speculating you may be insolvent
  • 12:32 MagicalTux: people keep speculating that every single time we announce something isn't going right

And then there's gems like this one, well obviously, if you announce something isn't going right and are sketchy on the details, then you have to issue updates and corrections to your own PR, well, obviously people are going to "keep speculating".

On a scale of 1 to 10, of the sensitivity and impact of an announcement that a financial institution can make, something to do with limiting access to customer funds is about an 11.

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June 21, 2013, 04:26:13 PM
 #67

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1gsiwy/an_update_from_mt_gox/

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June 21, 2013, 04:29:56 PM
 #68

Quote from: mtgox
5) Mt. Gox is certainly not a martyr, but it would be hard to argue that we aren’t "taking one for the team" as far as Bitcoin is concerned.

taking
one
for
the

team.

Uh I really like this one.
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June 22, 2013, 12:53:28 AM
 #69

Quote from: mtgox
5) Mt. Gox is certainly not a martyr, but it would be hard to argue that we aren’t "taking one for the team" as far as Bitcoin is concerned. We are a big target, and are absorbing the frustrations of Bitcoiners, regulators, banks, and a media that still doesn't quite understand what Bitcoin is. This is a job we are happy to fill, and not just because we are compensated for it. Our hope is that, once Bitcoin finds its place, we will be able to say that we made a difference in sorting it all out in the early days. New exchanges, business models, merchants, traders, and consumers are rising up to innovate and create a whole new way of doing business. A lot of lawyers are getting new cars in the meantime too.

Yes, like the MtGox Lawyer preventing the NZ court appointed liquidator for Bitcoinica to access their own account so funds can finally be returned to Bitcoinica customers who are still waiting 1+ years later.
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June 22, 2013, 07:32:07 AM
 #70

On a scale of 1 to 10, of the sensitivity and impact of an announcement that a financial institution can make, something to do with limiting access to customer funds is about an 11.
Really?  Where is "we are bankrupt" or "we have grown larger than the bank" on your scale?  How about a hack?

Based on the price development, I would place it at about 2.  Trading going on as normal, more or less.  Prices are not moving off the charts, as they would if the impact was off the scale.

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