Miners have full control of Bitcoin price. Nobody can trust a system like this.

[WilderX]

This is yet again demonstration how miners have total control over Bitcoin price and it's forks. Nobody can trust a system like this when few powerful people can change eveyrthing in a day.

Not as a store of value
Not as a currency
Not as anything really other than an instrument for the rich to get richer and poor to get poorer. This is same as FIAT. You have not accomplished much anything really.

Proof of Work is doomed. Proof of Stake is the future.

POS changes everything.

1. In proof of work miners can play the system forever. They can dump their BTC when it's high and buy large amounts of BHC and start mining BHC which will rise it's price as you can see from the chart in the OP and what just happened over the past couple days. Then they dump BHC at 2-3 times the price and buy back BTC when it's low and move back to mining BTC... and on and on it goes and in the future it will be even worse when there are many more Bitcoin forks.
2. In Proof of Stake you can dump your stake (your holdings) only once! Once that is done you are out of power over the system and you can't play the system forever like in proof of work.

https://fork.lol/pow/hashrate

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[master2080]

Not as anything really other than an instrument for the rich to get richer and poor to get poorer. This is same as FIAT. You have not accomplished much anything really.

Proof of Work is doomed. Proof of Stake is the future.

Yes, let's just let all the rich people buy all the coins so they'll control the coin, but without the electricity costs.

Sounds like a wonderful and impactful change.

[WilderX]

Not as anything really other than an instrument for the rich to get richer and poor to get poorer. This is same as FIAT. You have not accomplished much anything really.

Proof of Work is doomed. Proof of Stake is the future.

Yes, let's just let all the rich people buy all the coins so they'll control the coin, but without the electricity costs.

Sounds like a wonderful and impactful change.

There is a new novel POS at work where even if you hold just one unit and stake you have a chance getting rewards.

[Lordas]

What PoS would change? Nothing - poor will have tiny amounts, rich - huge. Result the same.

[WilderX]

What PoS would change? Nothing - poor will have tiny amounts, rich - huge. Result the same.

POS changes everything.

1. In proof of work miners can play the system forever. They can dump their BTC when it's high and buy large amounts of BHC and start mining BHC which will rise it's price as you can see from the chart in the OP and what just happened over the past couple days. Then they dump BHC at 2-3 times the price and buy back BTC when it's low and move back to mining BTC... and on and on it goes and in the future it will be even worse when there are many more Bitcoin forks.

2. In Proof of Stake you can dump your stake (your holdings) only once! Once that is done you are out of power over the system and you can't play the system forever like in proof of work.

[1101labu]

There is a new novel POS at work where even if you hold just one unit and stake you have a chance getting rewards.

Yeah in my country they have it also. They call it national lottery.

[ibininja]

This is yet again demonstration how miners have total control over Bitcoin price and it's forks. Nobody can trust a system like this when few powerful people can change eveyrthing in a day.

Not as a store of value
Not as a currency
Not as anything really other than an instrument for the rich to get richer and poor to get poorer. This is same as FIAT. You have not accomplished much anything really.

Proof of Work is doomed. Proof of Stake is the future.

POS changes everything.

1. In proof of work miners can play the system forever. They can dump their BTC when it's high and buy large amounts of BHC and start mining BHC which will rise it's price as you can see from the chart in the OP and what just happened over the past couple days. Then they dump BHC at 2-3 times the price and buy back BTC when it's low and move back to mining BTC... and on and on it goes and in the future it will be even worse when there are many more Bitcoin forks.
2. In Proof of Stake you can dump your stake (your holdings) only once! Once that is done you are out of power over the system and you can't play the system forever like in proof of work.

https://fork.lol/pow/hashrate

Agreed man; Proof of work no longer works; I mean the way the play with the market is crazy; it is a blood bath out there. I am surprised how the market shifted in a glance. Looks like Eth is write to consider proof of stake.

[WilderX]

There is a new novel POS at work where even if you hold just one unit and stake you have a chance getting rewards.

Yeah in my country they have it also. They call it national lottery.

Yes exactly and in Bitcoin the miners have cracked the lottery machine.

[WilderX]

All moves on the crypto market as far as POW based coins go is very much coordinated. Don't be a fool and live in denial.

[pitham1]

Miners moving to BCH does not increase BCH's price. It does nothing except increase the speed of blocks being generated (until the next difficulty adjustment). So them dumping BTC and moving to BCH just to profit does not make sense.

[hatshepsut93]

OP, you are assuming that the price follows the hashrate, but it's wrong and in reality it's the opposite and what is currently happening is that people like Roger Ver and other big blockers with big pockets are frustrated over B2X's cancellation, so they have pumped BCH with their own money which they will lose because people will dump their BCH if they have it unclaimed since the fork day. Bitcoin is still in its early days, the market hasn't matured so the price can be shaken relatively easy, especially if it was near ATH after a big bull run but you can't really say that miners control the price.

[WilderX]

Miners moving to BCH does not increase BCH's price. It does nothing except increase the speed of blocks being generated (until the next difficulty adjustment). So them dumping BTC and moving to BCH just to profit does not make sense.

You know nothing. The more miners there are it has a direct impact on what it costs to produce that specific unit be it BTC or BCH which ultimately dictates the price of that said unit.

You are legendary man... How do you still not see this? Are you not a miner?

[WilderX]

OP, you are assuming that the price follows the hashrate, but it's wrong and in reality it's the opposite and what is currently happening is that people like Roger Ver and other big blockers with big pockets are frustrated over B2X's cancellation, so they have pumped BCH with their own money which they will lose because people will dump their BCH if they have it unclaimed since the fork day. Bitcoin is still in its early days, the market hasn't matured so the price can be shaken relatively easy, especially if it was near ATH after a big bull run but you can't really say that miners control the price.

LOL assuming? Below is the hashrate evolution of Bitcoin. It is a fact that the production cost of a unit ultimately dictates the price.

I have seen this as a miner for years now. Everyone trying to tell you differently does not want you to know the truth.

https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?timespan=all

[WilderX]

You can also thank miners for the 166k unconfirmed transactions and growing. Surely Bitcoin and Proof of Work has a bright future  

https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions

[LoyceV]

Although I agree that miners have too much power, I don't think POS will solve the fundamental problems. I think all the forks will disappear the moment the real Bitcoin allows scaling. This will end all forks and suck many altcoins dry.

What I want, as a regular Bitcoin user, is two things:
1. cheap and fast transactions
2. see the value of my coins increase
I have #2 in common with rich miners and whales, but for #1 the have the exact opposite interests.

I'm also surprised https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-core/ (or https://bitcoincore.org) doesn't mention anything about how Bitcoin Core things these problems can be solved in the near future. Sure, they warn about forks and incompatibilities, but that's the result of the problems, not the cause.

Lightning Must Strike Soon, Bitcoin Facing Backlogs as Scalability Solution Awaited

Miners moving to BCH does not increase BCH's price. It does nothing except increase the speed of blocks being generated (until the next difficulty adjustment). So them dumping BTC and moving to BCH just to profit does not make sense.

And yet, the increase in block speed on Bitcoin Cash coincides with the pump. I've wondered about this before: why on earth would someone start paying more to buy Bitcoin Cash the moment miners are creating more of these coins?

[mammon]

Let me guess...  WilderX doesn't have BCH??

[hatshepsut93]

OP, you are assuming that the price follows the hashrate, but it's wrong and in reality it's the opposite and what is currently happening is that people like Roger Ver and other big blockers with big pockets are frustrated over B2X's cancellation, so they have pumped BCH with their own money which they will lose because people will dump their BCH if they have it unclaimed since the fork day. Bitcoin is still in its early days, the market hasn't matured so the price can be shaken relatively easy, especially if it was near ATH after a big bull run but you can't really say that miners control the price.

LOL assuming? Below is the hashrate evolution of Bitcoin. It is a fact that the production cost of a unit ultimately dictates the price.

No, it's not, the value is always determined by supply and demand, production costs is simply the bottom line for value, because no one would produce something at a loss. But you can't simply put a lot of work into something and expect to sell it at higher price, buyers don't concern themselves with production costs, their price is based purely on their feelings. And with cryptocurrencies the price change always precedes the hashpower change because miners are following the most profitable chain at the moment - it's never the opposite, like you are describing, that miners put more work and the price rises. SegWit2x futures were trading at a fraction of Bitcoin's price, despite being backed by 90% of hashpower - by your logic, they should have had 90% of Bitcoin's price.

[Stan235]

Could you please explain to newbie why Bitcoin does not want to encraese block size? As i inderstood it will lead to my transactions wright in the block. Looks like good idea.

[garytheasshole]

You're forgetting that markets tend to correct.
How exactly PoS is not making the rich richer? I fail to see your point.

[gentlemand]

No matter what system, fork, workaround or pleading you come up with, people with more power and money will find a way to lord over you. That's just how the world works and always will.

I'd love to see something that managed to neutralise dickish behaviour, but humans are dicks.